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  #41  
Old 02-21-2009, 12:28 PM
44Ronin
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Default Re: The British or the Americans?

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Originally Posted by jonescrusher View Post
Cool! What's the name of the school?
Ashfield boys high school



In the early years, angus wore the ashfield uniform and the distinctive 'A' cap
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  #42  
Old 02-21-2009, 02:04 PM
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Default Re: The British or the Americans?

Cool! That's what I was thinking, about the onstage school uniforms. Must be a point of pride for Ashfield alumni.

Although reading back, i'm not sure why I asked that question, given that you'd given me the answer, hmmm.....
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  #43  
Old 02-21-2009, 02:55 PM
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Default Re: The British or the Americans?

Where would Hendrix fit . Was his music a British or an American contribution?
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  #44  
Old 02-21-2009, 03:06 PM
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Where would Hendrix fit . Was his music a British or an American contribution?
American bandleader, British band. Undoubtedly an American artist - but one who wouldn't have gained anything like as much exposure in America. It took Britain to actually make him famous; at which point he went back to the US and became the legend he is. There was a reason Chas Chandler brought him to London. Undoubtedly an American artist though.
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  #45  
Old 02-21-2009, 03:16 PM
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Default Re: The British or the Americans?

Well put.

To an extent Led Zeppelin had a similar schizophrenic existence. Their reworked delta blues tunes became huge Brit-powered American experiences and then they'd come back home to small potatoes & a total lack of appreciation.

Critics & listeners alike.
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  #46  
Old 02-21-2009, 03:22 PM
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Default Re: The British or the Americans?

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Originally Posted by synergy View Post
Actually- the guy is right-

Brian Johnson is Scottish so is Angus and his brother- they moved to Austrailia as children

This is pointless in as much as music is a circle- We are/have been very good at taking your music and selling it back to you in a different form-

I have a wonderful quote from a newspaper article in the UK-


''The fact is, in pop terms, the US is Microsoft: vast, lumbering, clunky and a bit shit.

While the UK is Apple: nimble, zippy, innovative and totally up its own arse.

Gene Vincent, the Beatles, heavy metal, punk, disco, house and electronica - for decades, Britain has stolen American pop music, gayed it up and sold it back for a profit''

Couldnt have said it better myself


article:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/musi...nevergohomeaga
brian johnson is english hes from newcastle
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  #47  
Old 02-21-2009, 03:41 PM
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Default Re: The British or the Americans?

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Originally Posted by aydee View Post
Well put.

To an extent Led Zeppelin had a similar schizophrenic existence. Their reworked delta blues tunes became huge Brit-powered American experiences and then they'd come back home to small potatoes & a total lack of appreciation.

Critics & listeners alike.

Even the listeners? I know English critics were willing to give them a hard time as they often do to bands that make it in the US, but I wouldn't have said it affected their home fan base. Hard to blame them for concentrating their efforts in America, just too much to gain. English band through and through ;)
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  #48  
Old 02-21-2009, 03:53 PM
aydee aydee is offline
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Default Re: The British or the Americans?

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Originally Posted by jonescrusher View Post
Even the listeners? I know English critics were willing to give them a hard time as they often do to bands that make it in the US, but I wouldn't have said it affected their home fan base. Hard to blame them for concentrating their efforts in America, just too much to gain. English band through and through ;)
English antecedents for sure, but the home fan base was very small and selective I believe.

Clapton was God, the Stones were the next Beatles, and these long haired glam boys played really bad music really loud. Peter Grant had a hard time getting them decent home gigs while they were selling out huge stadiums across the Atlantic.

I think it took them 4 or 5 US tours to be taken seriously at home. ( Jimmy being the exception, he always had a rep )

Last edited by aydee; 02-21-2009 at 06:46 PM.
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  #49  
Old 02-21-2009, 06:11 PM
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Default Re: The British or the Americans?

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Originally Posted by GRUNTERSDAD View Post
I think the Americans did....no the British...no...
If you mean today's, I don't know since I don't listen to much of the current stuff.
I do think the British Invasion has influenced most of todays in some way, and most of the British Invasion acts say they were influenced most by Buddy Holly, Elvis, Bill Haley, Little Richard, Chuck Berry, Fats Domino. So which came first the chicken or the egg.
It was certainly give and take, The Americans and the British influenced each other simultaneously. One made a splash which triggered one overseas, back and forth it went. Probably to this day we are influencing each other. Fortunately, it took both to get here, so it's all good.
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  #50  
Old 02-23-2009, 07:08 AM
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Default Re: The British or the Americans?

A combination, fusion of both.....
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  #51  
Old 02-23-2009, 07:31 AM
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Default Re: The British or the Americans?

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Originally Posted by Mediocrefunkybeat View Post
DJ culture (developed in New York in the late 70's as a direct result of Jamaican dub) was developed furiously in the UK during the 80's and 90's to the point where the majority of well-known electronic artists are in fact British acts.
You guys keep stealin' our ideas. :)
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  #52  
Old 02-23-2009, 07:55 AM
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Default Re: The British or the Americans?

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Originally Posted by zambizzi View Post
I'd like to answer your question with another question...

Who invented Blues, R&B, Soul, Motown, Jazz, Funk, and Rock n' Roll?
Yup, and add Hip Hop to the list. Fact is, most western popular music is rooted in America, specifically black America. Of course, artists from other countries (most notably Britain) have made brilliant and wonderful contributions along the way.
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  #53  
Old 02-25-2009, 04:53 PM
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Default Re: The British or the Americans?

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Originally Posted by 44Ronin View Post
Brian Johnson was and to my mind always will be a replacement.

ACDC made it in Australia, all the original band members grew up for the majority of their lives in Australia and are very Australian.

Another thing is their identity as musicians did not exist when they were all six to eight years old.

Really, the original european Australians were english, scottish, irish anyway. Being Australian is more a state of mind, anyway.

Bon Scott was Australian
Phil Rudd is Australian
Malcolm Young is Australian
Angus Young is Australian

ACDC is Australian as vegimite. Both brothers went to my school, Ashfield Boys High School. George young's band was The Easybeats, another distinctly Australia band.
I have to put my...10p...in on this AC/DC thing.

Bon Scott and the Young brothers (including producer George) all came from Scotland originally and moved to Australia when young.
Mark Evans and Phil Rudd were native Australians.

However, Mark Evan's replacement in 1977 was of course Cliff Williams, who is from England, and never lived in Australia. The same goes for Brian Johnson, who's from Newcastle. So that makes them at least 50% British, I would say. Also, they were influenced first by US blues, RnB and rock 'n' roll, and then by british rock bands, Led Zeppelin foremost among them, so who they belong to is anyone's guess really.

In fact, this whole thing comes down more to a question of ownership than anything else, doesn't it?

Who owns music? Led Zeppelin were from England but were inspired by US blues musicians who were drawing in no small part on African culture...so Led Zeppelin are from Africa? No.

Everything is influenced by everything else. Either this question has no answer, or it has an arbitrary one, like 'where were they born'. The lines in popular music culture are too blurred to make more precise judgements than that.
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  #54  
Old 02-25-2009, 08:50 PM
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Default Re: The British or the Americans?

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Originally Posted by PQleyR View Post
I have to put my...10p...in on this AC/DC thing.

Bon Scott and the Young brothers (including producer George) all came from Scotland originally and moved to Australia when young.
Mark Evans and Phil Rudd were native Australians.

However, Mark Evan's replacement in 1977 was of course Cliff Williams, who is from England, and never lived in Australia. The same goes for Brian Johnson, who's from Newcastle. So that makes them at least 50% British, I would say. Also, they were influenced first by US blues, RnB and rock 'n' roll, and then by british rock bands, Led Zeppelin foremost among them, so who they belong to is anyone's guess really.

In fact, this whole thing comes down more to a question of ownership than anything else, doesn't it?

Who owns music? Led Zeppelin were from England but were inspired by US blues musicians who were drawing in no small part on African culture...so Led Zeppelin are from Africa? No.

Everything is influenced by everything else. Either this question has no answer, or it has an arbitrary one, like 'where were they born'. The lines in popular music culture are too blurred to make more precise judgements than that.
Very good explanation.
In addition, The Scott Family were from Kirriemuir and The Young Family were from Glasgow, Scotland (Alba). They emigrated to Australia, setting roots in Sydney (Young) and Freemantle (Scott).

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  #55  
Old 02-26-2009, 12:27 AM
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Default Re: The British or the Americans?

Let's not forget aboot all the great Canadian talent that's hit the mainstream in recent years:

Rush
Tragically Hip
Barenaked Ladies
Neil Young
The Guess Who
Jeff Healey
The Band
Bryan Adams
Our Lady Peace
Matthew Good Band
I Mother Earth
Nickleback
Finger Eleven
Alexisonfire, Dallas Green
Billy Talent
The Salads
Three Days Grace
Avril Lavigne
Shania Twain
Celine Dion
Anne Murray
Great Big Sea
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I never said I was proud of everyone, but you can't argue their sucess. With my generation, there will come many more.

Canada - The only country to gain its independance by asking politely.
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  #56  
Old 02-26-2009, 03:29 PM
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Default Re: The British or the Americans?

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Originally Posted by PQleyR View Post
I have to put my...10p...in on this AC/DC thing.

Bon Scott and the Young brothers (including producer George) all came from Scotland originally and moved to Australia when young.
Mark Evans and Phil Rudd were native Australians.

However, Mark Evan's replacement in 1977 was of course Cliff Williams, who is from England, and never lived in Australia.

[b]The same goes for Brian Johnson, who's from Newcastle. So that makes them at least 50% British, I would say.

Also, they were influenced first by US blues, RnB and rock 'n' roll, and then by british rock bands, Led Zeppelin foremost among them, so who they belong to is anyone's guess really.

In fact, this whole thing comes down more to a question of ownership than anything else, doesn't it?

Who owns music? Led Zeppelin were from England but were inspired by US blues musicians who were drawing in no small part on African culture...so Led Zeppelin are from Africa? No.

Everything is influenced by everything else. Either this question has no answer, or it has an arbitrary one, like 'where were they born'. The lines in popular music culture are too blurred to make more precise judgements than that.
You will not find a more Australian tune than 'friday on my mind', you will not find a more australian band than the easy beats.

ACDC are an australian band. I don't care what you think, Brian Johnson sucks. His voice sounds like cats in a meat grinder...

Just because they immigrated doesn't mean anything to claim anything. Angus and Malcolm are the main songwriters to be sure. They're australian PERIOD
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  #57  
Old 02-26-2009, 05:01 PM
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Default Re: The British or the Americans?

You got given facts and responded with the same argument as before, you can't just say 'AC/DC' are Australian because I'm going to ignore one of their members.

As for British or American, I listen to mainly British bands as they don't appear to be as 'samey' as in the US. Although most of my favourite bands are American, and I'm sure the UK bands I listen to were influenced by the US in some way.

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  #58  
Old 02-26-2009, 05:40 PM
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Default Re: The British or the Americans?

The true pioneers of music will always be The Carpenters and Yanni !
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  #59  
Old 02-26-2009, 08:27 PM
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Default Re: The British or the Americans?

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Originally Posted by 44Ronin View Post
You will not find a more Australian tune than 'friday on my mind', you will not find a more australian band than the easy beats.

ACDC are an australian band. I don't care what you think, Brian Johnson sucks. His voice sounds like cats in a meat grinder...

Just because they immigrated doesn't mean anything to claim anything. Angus and Malcolm are the main songwriters to be sure. They're australian PERIOD
Congratulations on winning the 'Missing My Point Completely' prize.
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  #60  
Old 02-26-2009, 08:42 PM
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Default Re: The British or the Americans?

I don't think the Origin of AC/DC has any bearing on the thread. We all agree they were not American, so we will say for the purpose of the thread that they were British, or close to British, whatever, but not America. They prmote themselves or are promoted as an Australian band, so why bicker as to where they are from. Who cares.
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  #61  
Old 03-19-2009, 06:10 PM
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Default Re: The British or the Americans?

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To post an answer in this thread is to participate in mass stupidity.
to start this thread is like wearing buggy jeans and wear the hat turned 90 degrees CCW, grin. lol
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  #62  
Old 03-19-2009, 06:47 PM
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Default Re: The British or the Americans?

Going back to the orginal question: Who has CONTRIBUTED the most, then I'd say the British were instrumental [sic] in creating a lot of the popular music we have today.

America gave us Blues & Jazz but (putting jazz aside as it's not a genre I have much knowledge about) we took that and came up with:
Britpop, Merseybeat, etc (Beatles, etc)
Heavy Rock (Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath)
Heavy Metal (Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, etc)
Black Metal (Venom) which the Norwegians took and made it theirs.
Punk Rock (Sex Pistols, etc)
Grindcore (Napalm Death, Carcass)
Electronica, Techno, Rave, whatever (yeah, like I know)

America took these and expanded/refined them giving us:
Hardcore Punk (Black Flag, Misfits, etc)
Thrash Metal (Metallica, Anthrax, Testament, Megadeth, etc)
Death Metal (Death, Obituary, Cannibal Corpse, etc)
Rap Metal (Rage Against The Machine, Limp Bizkit) (Curse you Anthrax for starting this)
Whiny Teen Punk (Green Day, etc)
Nu Metal (Korn, etc)

So looking at that, in the rock/metal genres, we're both about even. It's all one big circle of influences thanks mostly to the tape-trading of the early '80s and now the internet culture of today.
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  #63  
Old 03-19-2009, 09:56 PM
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Default Re: The British or the Americans?

I think there is no doubt that the British Invasion was preceded (and heavily influenced by) Blues, Jazz and Rockabilly, all created in the United States. That said, my iPod is utterly DOMINATED by British rock acts.
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  #64  
Old 03-20-2009, 01:49 AM
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Default Re: The British or the Americans?

Actually, no, that's not it. Do you want to hear the real answer to this question?

Really?




I'll tell you.













It was me!
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  #65  
Old 03-20-2009, 02:21 AM
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Default Re: The British or the Americans?

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Originally Posted by CopperBomb View Post
Going back to the orginal question: Who has CONTRIBUTED the most, then I'd say the British were instrumental [sic] in creating a lot of the popular music we have today.

America gave us Blues & Jazz but (putting jazz aside as it's not a genre I have much knowledge about) we took that and came up with:
Britpop, Merseybeat, etc (Beatles, etc)
Heavy Rock (Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath)
Heavy Metal (Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, etc)
Black Metal (Venom) which the Norwegians took and made it theirs.
Punk Rock (Sex Pistols, etc)
Grindcore (Napalm Death, Carcass)
Electronica, Techno, Rave, whatever (yeah, like I know)

America took these and expanded/refined them giving us:
Hardcore Punk (Black Flag, Misfits, etc)
Thrash Metal (Metallica, Anthrax, Testament, Megadeth, etc)
Death Metal (Death, Obituary, Cannibal Corpse, etc)
Rap Metal (Rage Against The Machine, Limp Bizkit) (Curse you Anthrax for starting this)
Whiny Teen Punk (Green Day, etc)
Nu Metal (Korn, etc)

So looking at that, in the rock/metal genres, we're both about even. It's all one big circle of influences thanks mostly to the tape-trading of the early '80s and now the internet culture of today.
No way! Punk Rock came from America. Detroit and NY to be specific. Look up Iggy and the Stooges, MC5 and the Ramones. And Techno is Detroit while House is Chicago.

I will agree that Britpop came from Britain though.
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  #66  
Old 03-20-2009, 02:55 AM
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Default Re: The British or the Americans?

Surely the real question should be Africans or Americans?
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  #67  
Old 03-20-2009, 03:11 AM
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Surely the real question should be Africans or Americans?

What does this mean?
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  #68  
Old 03-20-2009, 03:41 AM
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Default Re: The British or the Americans?

When British musicians sing, they sound American, but American musicians don't sound British. America Rocks, end of story.
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  #69  
Old 03-20-2009, 03:57 AM
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Default Re: The British or the Americans?

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Originally Posted by larryace View Post
When British musicians sing, they sound American, but American musicians don't sound British. America Rocks, end of story.

Utter twaddle, sir. I'd concede that it's an easy trap for many of the less experienced/talented British singers to fall into.
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  #70  
Old 03-20-2009, 06:46 AM
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Utter twaddle, sir.
Fantastic! I love that word! Its the 1st time I've heard it!
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  #71  
Old 03-20-2009, 04:03 PM
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Default Re: The British or the Americans?

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Utter twaddle, sir. I'd concede that it's an easy trap for many of the less experienced/talented British singers to fall into.
I admit I was being a little tongue in cheek. I don't actually feel that way, I was just being snarky. We are all from Planet Earth with the same basic human emotions, and one country or another has no claim to be superior musically. Except America. Kidding, lighten up!
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  #72  
Old 03-20-2009, 04:14 PM
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Default Re: The British or the Americans?

Actually, and I really feel this way, music from the people and culture of Africa are at the root of almost all popular music in America. (Can't speak about Britain) Blues, Jazz, Gospel...all came from the people of African descent. Out of that grew swing, big band, rock and roll, which spauned punk and metal. With the exception of country I'd say that music originating from the African race is more widespread than any other source, at least where I live.
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  #73  
Old 03-20-2009, 04:38 PM
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Default Re: The British or the Americans?

Too me there are too many greats on either side to draw a conclusion such as this...for me growing up through the 60's and 70's we had greats from both sides and I loved them ALL there was never an American vs British mentality for me and I am still the same.
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  #74  
Old 03-20-2009, 06:36 PM
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Too me there are too many greats on either side to draw a conclusion such as this...for me growing up through the 60's and 70's we had greats from both sides and I loved them ALL there was never an American vs British mentality for me and I am still the same.
HERE.... .......HERE...... .....
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  #75  
Old 03-20-2009, 10:38 PM
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What does this mean?
This:
Quote:
Originally Posted by larryace View Post
Actually, and I really feel this way, music from the people and culture of Africa are at the root of almost all popular music in America. (Can't speak about Britain) Blues, Jazz, Gospel...all came from the people of African descent. Out of that grew swing, big band, rock and roll, which spauned punk and metal. With the exception of country I'd say that music originating from the African race is more widespread than any other source, at least where I live.
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  #76  
Old 03-21-2009, 04:22 PM
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Default Re: The British or the Americans?

That may be true but they were not playing blues or Jazz in Africa, it's an American thing but I guess if you want to get down to race then yes it was Black people from africa but the style was not invented till they came here and put a whole new spin on music.

Britain used the same roots to spawn their music.
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  #77  
Old 03-21-2009, 08:07 PM
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Default Re: The British or the Americans?

I'm going to go with the Brits - mainly because they have provided us with many many amazing bands over the years - and also have cultivated many of our American artists - Jimi being one of the more well-known.

How has this thread reached two pages without a single mention of DAVID BOWIE?!?!?! His stamp is all over every band coming out these days (or so it seems) - but of course I say "his stamp" when it's REALLY my man PETER HAMMILL (FTW!) - who Bowie admitted to copying in his youth - "He was my biggest influence"

If anyone here thinks prog didn't start with Van der graaf Generator...I am sorry...



Even today -many young American bands are sending their EPs out to British music mags - hoping they like them - because if the Brit kids love it - it will come back to that band over here: Break out there and you're good to go here.



And all of the AC/DC blather reminded me of my favorite joke from my waiting-table days:

What's the difference between an Australian and a canoe?

A canoe tips sometimes.


Yeah that's right. A big Flight-of-the-Conchords middle-finger salute to all the Aussies I ever had to wait on...
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  #78  
Old 03-21-2009, 08:48 PM
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DestinationDrumming DestinationDrumming is offline
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Default Re: The British or the Americans?

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Originally Posted by aydee View Post
Who, in your view, made the larger contribution to popular music?
Africans, surely?

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Old 03-21-2009, 09:00 PM
aydee aydee is offline
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Default Re: The British or the Americans?

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Originally Posted by DestinationDrumming View Post
Africans, surely?

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Well, if you buy into some of Richard Leaky's theories and have read Mathieson's " The tree under which man was born",

we are all africans.. most of us anyway.
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Old 03-21-2009, 09:11 PM
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Default Re: The British or the Americans?

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Originally Posted by jjmason777 View Post
I'd say, all in all, it's been a beautiful symbiotic relationship, with each one influencing the other. And don't forget, both sides of the Atlantic have also drawn from world music styles as well, such as eastern and african music.
It might be fun and instructive to debate this stuff but it becomes pointless when you insist on there being a final answer.

The great thing about music (and most musicians) is that it's universal, not nationalistic. Good musicians are more interested in the music itself than where it comes from. It's a cross-pollination kind of thing, everyone influencing everyone else. You hear something new and original, interpret it in your own way, rework it to fit into your own style, then go out and PLAY it. Other musicians hear you and repeat the process with their own interpretation and style. On and on...

Musicians are probably some of the most open-minded people on the planet! At least when it comes to music.
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Old 04-07-2009, 04:57 PM
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