Band wants to use programmed drums on record

Drumsarefun

Member
This band I'm in wants to use programmed drums on computer to record, mainly because of the cost of getting a recording studio for a few days, and they've done everything else without needing a recording studio.

This is very upsetting because it would be my first chance to play on record, and makes me disappointed we live in a time where you basically don't even need a drummer.

If this was just some years ago, we would have no choice but to record my drums, now its just easier + cheaper to do it on a laptop.

I know programmed drums might not sound quite the same, but clearly most people don't actually care/ won't even notice.

So how could I convince them, and are they right anyway? What's the point in using a drummer (other than for live)?
 
If they recorded all their parts at home, why can't you? There's never been a better time to do this. Invest in the mics and audio gear, you probably need these things anyway if you are serious about playing.
 
If they recorded all their parts at home, why can't you? There's never been a better time to do this. Invest in the mics and audio gear, you probably need these things anyway if you are serious about playing.

Yeah, we're just students I guess so not much money.

You mean recording acoustic drums at home? Hmm would be difficult I guess because of noise, plus we don't the mics or knowledge of how to record drums properly.

I think a recording studio will be more likely, IMO it's not even that expensive for a day if the cost is split, but oh well : /
 
Yeah, we're just students I guess so not much money.

You mean recording acoustic drums at home? Hmm would be difficult I guess because of noise, plus we don't the mics or knowledge of how to record drums properly.

I think a recording studio will be more likely, IMO it's not even that expensive for a day if the cost is split, but oh well : /


Well, at least program your own drum parts. That's a useful skill in itself. If you aren't even doing that, then you're right, they don't really need you.
 
Well, at least program your own drum parts. That's a useful skill in itself. If you aren't even doing that, then you're right, they don't really need you.

Nah I didn't even get to make the parts, but when we play together I use some of my own ideas. Because I joined after they had already written these.
 
Are you able to program the drum parts yourself, to make them more like what you play?

I've been in a few situations like this. One was where I wrote an album for a singer and we went to a studio where the producer insisted on programming the drums in his Linn9000. He's a drummer, and decided that his samples and programming would be better and faster than struggling to record acoustic drums. He was correct. We recorded 8 songs, and got out of there for $50,000, with studio musicians for guitar and bass.

In that case, it did make sense, and the results did turn out pretty good.

Closer to your situation, my college band wanted to record and we were virtually broke. There were no recording studios nearby, and nothing in the way of small or cheap digital recording gear in 1984. Even digital drums and drum machines weren't really an affordable or easily accessible option at the time.

But someone had a basement with a reel-to-reel 4-track tape recorder in it, and they were willing to rent it to me. I did some housework for them in exchange for access.

That was when I got to experiment with recording. They only had three microphones, so I put one on the snare [also picked up hats], one on the bass, and one on the room.

From there, I taught myself how to set levels. Recorded some test beats. Then, I learned how to "bounce" the three tracks down to one track, to open up more room on the tape for other instruments.

If you're motivated to learn DIY, then let your band know that you'd like to find a room where you could record. Maybe they could help with microphones and setting levels.

This could be a great learning experience.

The programmed drums will be clean and perfect. But will they represent the band? Will they really be happy with the results?

And if the band doesn't want to record your drums and insist on programming, then go ahead and get into recording yourself anyway. You won't become a worse drummer/person by knowing how to do this. Being able to do it might open some doors, too.

Bands come and go, but you'll keep on drumming for so long as you're into it.
 
Well, at least program your own drum parts. That's a useful skill in itself.

Nah I didn't even get to make the parts, but when we play together I use some of my own ideas. Because I joined after they had already written these.

I understand that this is a pride issue, but you can't take it personally, they didn't say they don't like your playing. Also, you're hardly the first drummer to play live, who didn't appear on the recording. This is a rampant practice in Nashville, where an artist often records with studio musicians, but tours with different musicians.

Unless you're truly an equal member, and would have been willing to pay for studio time, you have to accept that the band did what they felt they needed to do.

Bermuda
 
Is this a band project or not? And are you an equal partner in the band or not? If yes, they need to put you on the recording.

The band could go into an acceptably OK studio for a day for as little as ~$250. It would be a learning experience for everyone and the end result will be 10x better than what they're doing on the laptop. At the very least they should be willing to try to scrounge up a couple of mics and figure out how to record the drums on the laptop. If they're not serious enough to want to figure out how to record drums DIY, they're not serious enough to make an acceptable DIY recording.

Your guys sound like a bunch of broke (and lazy) amateurs who care more about getting a recording for free than about your contribution to the band, or about their relationship with you. Or about the quality of the recording. If they won't budge on this, fire them now or at the first opportunity, and find a band who likes you, and who is serious about the quality of their product.
 
Is this a band project or not? And are you an equal partner in the band or not? If yes, they need to put you on the recording.

The band could go into an acceptably OK studio for a day for as little as ~$250. It would be a learning experience for everyone and the end result will be 10x better than what they're doing on the laptop. At the very least they should be willing to try to scrounge up a couple of mics and figure out how to record the drums on the laptop. If they're not serious enough to want to figure out how to record drums DIY, they're not serious enough to make an acceptable DIY recording.

Your guys sound like a bunch of broke (and lazy) amateurs who care more about getting a recording for free than about your contribution to the band, or about their relationship with you. Or about the quality of the recording. If they won't budge on this, fire them now or at the first opportunity, and find a band who likes you, and who is serious about the quality of their product.

Well one is willing to get mics and do it, but the thing is some are saying - and they might be right - that the programmed drums (which are made on Ableton using proper samples) will sound better, and still be easier.

I would be willing to pay, its not even that much - £150 for the day (8hrs), but would prefer to split it between us.

I joined after they have written stuff, quite recently. I don't know if I'm equal yet honestly
 
Let them use the programmed the drum tracks.

Grab a $100 LDC and a $100 Focusrite, or one of the $170 Focusrite-with-LDC packages.

Get the raw tracks, and lay down your own drum tracks at home or in the rehearsal area.

Compare and contrast them to the computerized tracks. Keep learning and developing till yours are better. Once you have something that's noticeably better, show the band. Replacing the old computerized track is as simple as clicking a mute button in your DAW.
 
Another option is to rent an electronic kit. You will be able to play yourself and get a clean sound for the recording.

A few years ago I bought a Roland HD-1 kit just so I could record drum parts by playing them instead of sequencing them.
 
Another option is to rent an electronic kit. You will be able to play yourself and get a clean sound for the recording.

A few years ago I bought a Roland HD-1 kit just so I could record drum parts by playing them instead of sequencing them.

I actually have an electric kit, yamaha dtx700, but the Ableton samples sound better than the electronic.

And if its not using acoustic isnt the effect the same anyway.

One more question, is there any benefit to recording other things like synths and guitar in recording studio rather than on laptop in your room?

Whats the difference for these instruments?
 
Well one is willing to get mics and do it, but the thing is some are saying - and they might be right - that the programmed drums (which are made on Ableton using proper samples) will sound better, and still be easier.

If I were in your situation, as a young drummer, I don't care what's easier, or what will sound someone's idea of "better"-- I want to be on the recording. It's a reasonable requirement if you're going to show up to rehearsals, learn their music, and do the poorly paying gigs.

I joined after they have written stuff, quite recently. I don't know if I'm equal yet honestly

Seems like they've already given you their feelings on that. You can judge for yourself whether you're in a position to really insist on this, or if they'll even care if you quit over it. Maybe there's no relationship there at all, and it would be silly to force the issue. I would be looking for a better band to join.

btw, if you're going to be the executive producer and pay for the recording session, you may as well record the music you want with the people you want. Just saying...
 
One more question, is there any benefit to recording other things like synths and guitar in recording studio rather than on laptop in your room?

Whats the difference for these instruments?

The main benefit is that Studios have a knowledgeable person on staff to make certain that things are done correctly. They'll set the proper levels, make certain that there's no buzz, hum, or other blemish that interferes with the recording process. Historically, studios have also had better mic, gear, and channel strip selection.

There's no issue recording at home IFF (if and only if, for you non math guys) you know what you're doing. There was a thread a while back that made the good point that anyone wanting to record at home should go to a studio at least once to see a healthy workflow and absorb some knowledge.
 
I actually have an electric kit, yamaha dtx700, but the Ableton samples sound better than the electronic.

Record the MIDI out from the DTX into Ableton and then route the MIDI track through Ableton's drum sampler. I don't use Ableton so I don't know exactly how to do this, but it sure can be done.

I understand that playing an e-kit is not the same as an acoustic, but it could be a good compromise: you get to play on the record and keep the bandmates happy.

I'm far from an audio engineer, but I've recorded 10 albums of synth-based music (mostly hardware synths, not software) and understand a bit about acoustics, dynamics and EQ. I've gone through the hassle of recording acoustic drums for some songs and never been quite happy with the result. I've also been in studio recording sessions when a friend recorded drum tracks for his album, and I can say I would never have the patience these guys had for tuning, positioning mics, soundproofing the room, retuning, repositioning, setting levels, adding a couple ambient mics here and there, retuning, etc., until they were satisfied with the sound. By the time my friend actually got to lay down the first track, we had been there for four or five hours already. Your mileage may vary, but personally I'm either content with a "demo-quality" acoustic sound, or go with the e-kit.

Recording synths, bass and guitars is totally different since you can either using DI and amp sims, or record the sound from the amp using only one or two mics. Even vocals are easier to record than drums, IMO.
 
Last edited:
if the OP has e-drums, to me the solution to me is play the edrums, record midi, and use Superior Drummer or Addictive drums or whatever for the sounds. Best of all worlds for everyone.
 
The main benefit is that Studios have a knowledgeable person on staff to make certain that things are done correctly. They'll set the proper levels, make certain that there's no buzz, hum, or other blemish that interferes with the recording process. Historically, studios have also had better mic, gear, and channel strip selection.

Also, a proper studio is more likely to be using hi-def ProTools with a more complete selection of plug-ins, and ideally some choice outboard processors as well.

While it's true that everything eventually gets reduced to CD quality at best, it's the initial recording and processing that is best done at a higher resolution. It's like working on an image in Photoshop at 300dpi, before converting it to 72dpi for the web.

Bermuda
 
There's no issue recording at home IFF (if and only if, for you non math guys) you know what you're doing. There was a thread a while back that made the good point that anyone wanting to record at home should go to a studio at least once to see a healthy workflow and absorb some knowledge.

I totally agree and would add that besides knowing what you're doing, you need some decent equipment. A couple mics into a cheap 2-channel interface won't cut it. Not in my experience. Plus you have to experiment and know how to tune the drums for the recording... because they won't sound as you hear them from behind the kit.
 
Have you considered renting a rehearsal space and bringing a laptop and interface in with you to record your parts. If they've already recorded everything else this would be pretty easy to do. I had an Alesis iO that had 2 XLR's that i did this with. I practiced it at home until i could do them in one take and then rented the space for $25 an hour. Threw up the 2 microphones and recorded the tracks in a half hour. Ideal? Probably not, but it worked quite well. I can remember doing drum tracks with one microphone and my old Fostex Cassette 4-track. Learned a lot about microphone placement that way. You don't necessarily need to mic every drum individually to get great sounding tracks. Doing that just gives you more options during the mastering process.
 
Normally I think it's crap when a band doesn't respect the individual drummer enough to want his style and playing on the record. If the parts I'm expected to play are so straightforward and set in stone that a machine can do it just as well, then I'd want to be getting paid for my participation in this band as an employee.

But like I said, this applies more when a band wants me for my playing as opposed to just wanting me to re-produce something for them. If the latter, I wouldn't really care what they do, but again I'd only join such a situation if I was getting paid to be their live drum monkey who doesn't get to play on studio recordings or be part of the creative process.
 
Back
Top