The Big Kits vs. Small Kits Debate

Re: sorry but i have to, BIG DRUM KITS

haha when this shows up i retire the mics! wow im guessing that is in a music store? do you really think all of those pedals are attached to something percussive? i have a heard time believing they are!

Zak, that's Bozzios' kit. Yes, he plays every single instrument and yes all the pedals are attached to something. If you ever get a chance to check out one of his clinics, DO IT!
It will blow your mind.
 
Re: sorry but i have to, BIG DRUM KITS

This... Kinda hurts my feelings...

*sniff* d-do I play a big kit? I don't like being hated... ;__;

But really, I wouldn't complain about the noobs coming in with their 8 and up piece kits. It's money for you and a great experience plus that money when someone good comes along.
 
Re: sorry but i have to, BIG DRUM KITS

I can see what you mean with you getting annoyed with young drummers turning up with massive drum kits because they think it makes them a better drummer, but there are some out there who have big kits and dont do it to to seem better, im 16 and have been plaing for about 10 years now, and originaly i had a 4 piece, and about 2 years my dad was like ill get you a new kit, and i choose to have a bigger kit because i wanted to try something new and it worked for me, im just saying that not every young person with a big kit does it to seem better.

Thanks
 
Re: sorry but i have to, BIG DRUM KITS

Keith Moon started using two bass drums and more toms so he wouldn't be upstaged by other acts on the bill. When you look at him playing those enormous kits he had you can see that he's having fun. Isn't that what it's all about, having fun?

If I was a die-hard rock drummer in the right situation I'd insist on having a huge double-bass kit, just for the sheer fun of it.
 
Re: sorry but i have to, BIG DRUM KITS

Sounds like a case of big kit envy to me.

@OP: You know, if you don't want to hear a bunch of kids playing in ways you don't think are talented or grooving, here's an idea: Why don't you offer them lessons? Get them grooving. Get them in time. Teach them how to do different things around their set, whether they've got 3 or 30 pieces. Show them how to tweak and tease different sounds out of a snare drum, out of their toms, out of their hi-hats and ride cymbal. Get them interested in something besides death metal. I mean, you could do that... right?

Groove, feel, and time have nothing to do with the size of your kit and everything to do with your experience and familiarity with your instrument.

When I was a teenager I would have killed to record on something approaching a "real" studio setup. Back then there were no laptops running ProTools. If you were lucky you had a decent microphone on your cassette recorder.

Everyone started out somewhere, and not everyone who wants to be recorded is a professional ... yet. If it really bugs you that much to record them, stop doing it.
 
Re: sorry but i have to, BIG DRUM KITS

This... Kinda hurts my feelings...

*sniff* d-do I play a big kit? I don't like being hated... ;__;

But really, I wouldn't complain about the noobs coming in with their 8 and up piece kits. It's money for you and a great experience plus that money when someone good comes along.

I can see what you mean with you getting annoyed with young drummers turning up with massive drum kits because they think it makes them a better drummer, but there are some out there who have big kits and dont do it to to seem better, im 16 and have been plaing for about 10 years now, and originaly i had a 4 piece, and about 2 years my dad was like ill get you a new kit, and i choose to have a bigger kit because i wanted to try something new and it worked for me, im just saying that not every young person with a big kit does it to seem better.

Thanks

is all the hassle of having to load, set up, mic, and sometimes tune all of those drums? i mean does it really make your playing that much more musical then just a standard 5 piece?

Sounds like a case of big kit envy to me.

@OP: You know, if you don't want to hear a bunch of kids playing in ways you don't think are talented or grooving, here's an idea: Why don't you offer them lessons? Get them grooving. Get them in time. Teach them how to do different things around their set, whether they've got 3 or 30 pieces. Show them how to tweak and tease different sounds out of a snare drum, out of their toms, out of their hi-hats and ride cymbal. Get them interested in something besides death metal. I mean, you could do that... right?

Groove, feel, and time have nothing to do with the size of your kit and everything to do with your experience and familiarity with your instrument.

When I was a teenager I would have killed to record on something approaching a "real" studio setup. Back then there were no laptops running ProTools. If you were lucky you had a decent microphone on your cassette recorder.

Everyone started out somewhere, and not everyone who wants to be recorded is a professional ... yet. If it really bugs you that much to record them, stop doing it.

dont get me wrong, when they bring those kits in i would love to whale on then for a while, and i would even own a big kit as a novelty to play on when im bored. only as long as i have my trusty 4 piece with the 1 crash i hi hat and one ride for playing out. i would to afraid to take a huge kit to a show, maybe a metal gig, but besides that people might think im trying to compensate for something. kinda like the guys with big trucks theory.
i have been to many shows where i heard the big kit compensation jake from non drummers.
 
Re: sorry but i have to, BIG DRUM KITS

is all the hassle of having to load, set up, mic, and sometimes tune all of those drums? i mean does it really make your playing that much more musical then just a standard 5 piece?

Hmm...

Why yes, it does. It's like playing a guitar with six strings instead of four or five.
 
Re: sorry but i have to, BIG DRUM KITS

I'm sure this isnt what your getting at, but I have a 7peice, 8,10,12,14,16,22 with a 12 snare, I love it, I am able to be far more vocal in my playing.. Got 8 cymbals and a high-hat too, which is great for expression.

But I do assume your getting at stupidly big kits.
 
Re: sorry but i have to, BIG DRUM KITS

people might think im trying to compensate for something. kinda like the guys with big trucks theory. i have been to many shows where i heard the big kit compensation jake from non drummers.

Now, I can totally agree with you on the truck thing... some of those trucks do their most hardcore terrain driving when they go over the speed bump in the grocery parking lot.
 
Re: sorry but i have to, BIG DRUM KITS

A four- or five-string guitar is not a complete instrument. A small drum kit is.

CHS, I think a more accurate analogy would be playing a guitar with more effects pedals.

Disagree.

You don't need all 6 strings to play most chords.

Or 4 or 5 string guitar would still allow someone to play most songs, at least until you got to the solo part. (sounds familiar?)

Either way, I grew up seeing drummers play large kits in the 80's before I took up drums. Keith Moon and Kenny Jones, Steve Smith, Neil Peart, all the records I had seemed to be made with large kits.

Then I realized carrying all that stuff to a gig blew. And I've played a 5 pc ever since.
 
Re: sorry but i have to, BIG DRUM KITS

Anyway, I have gotten so much critisism and flack for having 12-13 cymbals on a 2 up 2 down set. I use every single one and feel lost without them. I love the accents and moods I can create or add to whatever I m playing. Its part of my personal style...which I believe every drummer should focus on after learning the "basics".

If everyone played a 4 pc with 1 ride and 1 crash I would be looking for the guy that has 10 toms and 20 cymbals... And vice versa. I grew up with Ringo and Bonzo and only use what is needed for that particular song... When we play a Rush song I have the option of expanding my range and it bleeds into my own personal style of playing. I try to make every song "my own version"...

It s one thing to start out with an oversized kit... Its like giving a 16 yr old a Corvette. But after one finds out what drumming is about, the choice is absolutely up to the one holding the sticks. I found out about big kits maybe 6-7 yrs after starting and never looked back to my simple set. I made my set to fit my style and want to add more whenever I hear something I like and would use to my advantage.

To O.P. get over it and welcome to the complicated world of diversity. Charge more, set limits, and tell these kids what you think. But make your $ worth while and do what you gotta do.
 
Re: sorry but i have to, BIG DRUM KITS

Right on for the 4 piece! I'm a big believer in that and the single pedal. Although I really do fancy the sounds of those Octobons, I may have to get some for that Stewart Copeland in me.
 
Re: sorry but i have to, BIG DRUM KITS

Disagree.

You don't need all 6 strings to play most chords.

Or 4 or 5 string guitar would still allow someone to play most songs, at least until you got to the solo part. (sounds familiar?)

PermaNoob said:
quick historical note - the baroque guitar actually HAS just 5 strings (well, actually courses, they are doubled on a baroque guitar).

Picky picky. I didn't really need to add a "generally" disclaimer to get my point across, did I? We must be building up our lawyer, engineer, accountant and scientist count on the forum.

How many bands out there have guitar players who use 6 string guitars? Millions. How have guitarists whose guitars have just 4 or 5 strings? SFA (unless you could those twaaang moments).

How many bands have drummers who play big kits? Millions. How many bands have drummers who play four piece kits? Millions.

The only concession I will make is a disclaimer:
A four- or five-string guitar is not a complete instrument for the purposes of common use. A small drum kit is.
 
Re: sorry but i have to, BIG DRUM KITS

...i am so so sick of people with large drum kits.....
......i record a good number of bands per week with my friend in his basement....

It's very simple. Quit doing it.
 
Re: sorry but i have to, BIG DRUM KITS

What about small double-bass kits, I don't seem to see enough of them?

louis_bellson_large.jpg
 
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Re: sorry but i have to, BIG DRUM KITS

A four- or five-string guitar is not a complete instrument. A small drum kit is.

CHS, I think a more accurate analogy would be playing a guitar with more effects pedals.

Disagree.

You don't need all 6 strings to play most chords.

Or 4 or 5 string guitar would still allow someone to play most songs, at least until you got to the solo part. (sounds familiar?)

Either way, I grew up seeing drummers play large kits in the 80's before I took up drums. Keith Moon and Kenny Jones, Steve Smith, Neil Peart, all the records I had seemed to be made with large kits.

Then I realized carrying all that stuff to a gig blew. And I've played a 5 pc ever since.

quick historical note - the baroque guitar actually HAS just 5 strings (well, actually courses, they are doubled on a baroque guitar).
Many of the lute family have but 4 strings (uke, tenor banjo, etc)
and there can be the argument for more strings (such as the Galbraith arrangements for 8 string)

it's really not unlike drums - in guitar there is quite a bit of variation in number of strings, tuning, etc.

Picky picky. I didn't really need to add a "generally" disclaimer to get my point across, did I? We must be building up our lawyer, engineer, accountant and scientist count on the forum.

How many bands out there have guitar players who use 6 string guitars? Millions. How have guitarists whose guitars have just 4 or 5 strings? SFA (unless you could those twaaang moments).

How many bands have drummers who play big kits? Millions. How many bands have drummers who play four piece kits? Millions.

The only concession I will make is a disclaimer:
A four- or five-string guitar is not a complete instrument for the purposes of common use. A small drum kit is.

Geez, I didn't forsee my analogy failing that badly.

It's a matter of range, gentlemen(And Polly). A guitar with five strings can be tuned certain ways but it won't have the immediate ability to sound exactly like a six string guitar. I have a little 8" tom that's currently off my kit that I would tune waaaaaay up there to get more of a split-second pop than an actual tom sound, like a marching spocker on a set of quads. I can tell you, it worked as a timbale, spocker, and really high tom. That increased my musicality, in my opinion.

If that doesn't count, then theoretically a five piece with a bazillion different other kinds of percussion is exempt from Zak's hatred.

And please, call me Steel or something. CHS is... wargarble.
 
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