Proper Practice and Internalisation

[Mighty_Joker]

Hi all,

This week's blog is up, and it's about Internalisation and Proper Practice. It's a short piece, but covers, in my opinion, important ground. I'd love your feedback. Read it here.

Thanks,
Jonathan

[ageadm]

Thanks for sharing. So basically it means that I should practice a paradiddle for 90 minutes (or any other rudiment) so my brain memorizes it like forever? Well, that would be tough to keep doing for 90 minutes (if I understood correctly) but it's worth it if that works.

[Xero Talent]

Originally Posted by ageadm

Thanks for sharing. So basically it means that I should practice a paradiddle for 90 minutes (or any other rudiment) so my brain memorizes it like forever? Well, that would be tough to keep doing for 90 minutes (if I understood correctly) but it's worth it if that works.

Doesn't have to be 90 consecutive minutes. Divide it into chunks.

As we are taught in martial arts, it takes roughly 10,000 repetitions to master a skill. You're not going to do all 10,000 reps at once, but it's the cumulative practice that will hone the muscle memory.

[ageadm]

Originally Posted by Xero Talent

Doesn't have to be 90 consecutive minutes. Divide it into chunks.

As we are taught in martial arts, it takes roughly 10,000 repetitions to master a skill. You're not going to do all 10,000 reps at once, but it's the cumulative practice that will hone the muscle memory.

I think I get it now. Would I do this for a week only or continue doing it as long as I can? I really have problems with some rudiments, I want to get them sounding how they should and this seems a correct way on achieving that.

[Duracell]

Originally Posted by ageadm

I think I get it now. Would I do this for a week only or continue doing it as long as I can? I really have problems with some rudiments, I want to get them sounding how they should and this seems a correct way on achieving that.

It's something you never stop doing. You'll always keep returning to your rudiments. Especially the most basic ones: singles, doubles, flams, paradiddles, drags.

[ageadm]

Originally Posted by Duracell

It's something you never stop doing. You'll always keep returning to your rudiments. Especially the most basic ones: singles, doubles, flams, paradiddles, drags.

I know, but I mean not 90 minutes a day anymore except the first 5 days, right?

[Duracell]

I liked your posts MJ. Especially the practice one makes sense to me. Now 90 minute stretches are a bit overkill for the most of us. Especially if that's 90 minutes of doing the exact same pattern over and over again. For those of us with limited time and who are not attempting to become pros it's a bit too much. I do agree with you though that 5 minutes a day is too short to achieve any meaningful progress.

[Duracell]

Originally Posted by ageadm

I know, but I mean not 90 minutes a day anymore, right?

I'm not sure how the pros do it. But I can't imagine myself doing 90 minutes of anything on a daily basis. That for me, as an amateur, is overkill. I can imagine doing 30 minutes of something or perhaps an hour of related exercises. But 90 minutes of singles at 60 bpm....I'd become suicidal...

[Mighty_Joker]

Thanks for the input.

I do 90 minutes a day of whichever exercise I'm doing, often multiple things at once. For me, it really brings the most benefit, as draining and difficult as it is.

Mangini recommends keeping it up for 6 weeks before moving on to something else, and you just need to watch his drumming to believe it works!

I agree though, for an amatuer, it is overkill, and as others have said, the many thousands of repetitions necessary come over along time. This 90 minute method is a way to really hone one specific skill as quickly as it humanly possible.

[Xero Talent]

Originally Posted by Duracell

I'm not sure how the pros do it. But I can't imagine myself doing 90 minutes of anything on a daily basis. That for me, as an amateur, is overkill. I can imagine doing 30 minutes of something or perhaps an hour of related exercises. But 90 minutes of singles at 60 bpm....I'd become suicidal...

I'm sure it's different for professionals, considering honing their craft is essentially their job ;)

[Mighty_Joker]

Originally Posted by Xero Talent

I'm sure it's different for professionals, considering honing their craft is essentially their job ;)

That's the way I look at it. After doing my 90 minutes straight this morning, on my pad exercise, I felt very fulfilled!

[ageadm]

Originally Posted by Mighty_Joker

That's the way I look at it. After doing my 90 minutes straight this morning, on my pad exercise, I felt very fulfilled!

You do the 90 minutes in one time with no breaks with just one rudiment?

[Mighty_Joker]

Yes. Today was a paradiddle routine at 60bpm. Next week that will go up to 80bpm, all the time paying close attention to stick heights, and proper up/down/tap/full strokes. It's quite spiritual towards the end!

[Anthony Amodeo]

Originally Posted by Mighty_Joker

Yes. Today was a paradiddle routine at 60bpm. Next week that will go up to 80bpm, all the time paying close attention to stick heights, and proper up/down/tap/full strokes. It's quite spiritual towards the end!

I agree
it's a bit like meditation

I enjoy doing things like this very much

[larryace]

90 minutes...if you are serious then to me 90 minutes is par for the course. I prefer doing one thing a long time too. The depth of practice you get is so worth it. You could skim over 5 things in 90 minutes....or learn one thing all the way. Learning one thing all the way carries over into your playing where doing 5 things won't carry over in the same way. In a way, it's the most efficient way to practice, because getting one thing down trumps skimming over 5 things every day of the week. 90 minutes. Pah, that's nothing.

I'm not saying that you have to go 8 hours. 2-3 is my limit, but like Jonathan I condone practicing 1 thing at a session, it's really the fastest way to move forward. Get er done.

[Anthony Amodeo]

Originally Posted by larryace

90 minutes...if you are serious then to me 90 minutes is par for the course. I prefer doing one thing a long time too. The depth of practice you get is so worth it. You could skim over 5 things in 90 minutes....or learn one thing all the way. Learning one thing all the way carries over into your playing where doing 5 things won't carry over in the same way. In a way, it's the most efficient way to practice, because getting one thing down trumps skimming over 5 things every day of the week. 90 minutes. Pah, that's nothing.

I'm not saying that you have to go 8 hours. 2-3 is my limit, but like Jonathan I condone practicing 1 thing at a session, it's really the fastest way to move forward. Get er done.

Larry Bird would stand and shoot hundreds of free throws for hours
that didn't work out so bad for him - .888% lifetime free throw percentage

Steve Nash does the same
.904%

repetition in the martial arts is imperative to natural response

one of the biggest keys to being a good musician and mastering your instrument is just that..... natural response

[Liebe zeit]

OK, so 5 minutes is stupid, but 10 minutes a day seems to work for me, and a possible scientific basis for it is that the brain is still working while you're not doing it. You add to the physical experience of doing it incrementally every day, and in between times there's some sub- or unconscious visualisation going on.

Having said that, I do often tend to hothouse a routine for long periods per day early on, though not always. If it's something I'm basically familiar with but am doing a variation, I'd say there's less need for long hours.

Anyway, Jon, for your test to be scientific you need someone else practicing over a similar period but for a much smaller duration per day.

[bigd]

If you do this for 90 minutes how do you keep your mind on the exercise. Practicing with out concentration isn't really practice. Muscle memory is fine but letting the subconscious take over seems ridiculous.

[Numberless]

I like this concept, working with books I usually play a page a week and I'll spend around 20-30 minutes on that page every day, that seems to be my max before I start getting antsy.

[Anthony Amodeo]

Originally Posted by bigd

If you do this for 90 minutes how do you keep your mind on the exercise. Practicing with out concentration isn't really practice. Muscle memory is fine but letting the subconscious take over seems ridiculous.

for me I find the ultimate focus sets in about 30 to 40 minutes into an exercise

its borderline meditation

pure unadulterated focus

[Mighty_Joker]

Originally Posted by Gvdadrummasum

for me I find the ultimate focus sets in about 30 to 40 minutes into an exercise

its borderline meditation

pure unadulterated focus

That's it. Nothing hones the mind like single-minded practice.

[Eyamsiyu]

Originally Posted by bigd

If you do this for 90 minutes how do you keep your mind on the exercise. Practicing with out concentration isn't really practice. Muscle memory is fine but letting the subconscious take over seems ridiculous.

The answer is to do the action in an unknown rhythm at a slow tempo.

For example, the first day I started to do this, after reading how such is supposed to work, I started doing singles the first day. What I did though was set the metronome to 10bpm, and started with 19 beats a click. It was so difficult, but I was so determined to get it right, and when I finally did, it felt so good.

Now, even after only a week, this has become something like a game to me: one that I can do whenever I can, and get productive results from playing such a "game."

And that's where you want to get to, to where you are focused on getting it right every single time for 90 minutes. Using such odd tuplet forms (the best ones I've found are prime number divisions) works the best, and in certain sticking patterns, it will start you in a different place than the very first repetition, so you really have to think. For example, the Paradiddle in a septuplet rhythm would end up looking like this' for 8 clicks:

rlrrlrl
lrlrrlr
llrlrrl
rllrlrr
lrllrlr
rlrllrl
rrlrllr
lrrlrll

the flow of the paradiddle never changes, but where you have to place it within the click is where the challenge comes in. It's fun to figure out.

[ageadm]

From tomorrow I'm going to do single paradiddles at 60 bpm for 90 minutes without a break, that is going to be my starting exercise for my upcoming days, then I'll increase the tempo to 80 bpm, then after another week 100 bpm and so on, until I reach 180 bpm. After this I'll take another rudiment and work on it the same way. Is this working way okay to be done?

[Mighty_Joker]

Originally Posted by ageadm

From tomorrow I'm going to do single paradiddles at 60 bpm for 90 minutes without a break, that is going to be my starting exercise for my upcoming days, then I'll increase the tempo to 80 bpm, then after another week 100 bpm and so on, until I reach 180 bpm. After this I'll take another rudiment and work on it the same way. Is this working way okay to be done?

Good luck. It's incredibly difficult, but equally effective.

[Fuo]

Originally Posted by ageadm

From tomorrow I'm going to do single paradiddles at 60 bpm for 90 minutes without a break, that is going to be my starting exercise for my upcoming days, then I'll increase the tempo to 80 bpm, then after another week 100 bpm and so on, until I reach 180 bpm. After this I'll take another rudiment and work on it the same way. Is this working way okay to be done?

Can you do them anywhere close to 180 now? With proper form and without ANY pain? If not, then I'd worry about cementing bad technique, and injury.

[ageadm]

Originally Posted by Fuo

Can you do them anywhere close to 180 now? With proper form and without ANY pain? If not, then I'd worry about cementing bad technique, and injury.

Well, that's the reason I'm starting with 60 bpm. Starting slow is the key afaik, correct me if I'm wrong.

[Numberless]

What about practicing a single concept bu in different ways, for example taking the paradiddle. First you practice them on a pad/snare at a comfortable tempo, then you can practice them reading Syncopation a la Alan Dawson, then you can work on orchestrating them around the kit and finally work a groove like Steve Gadd. You're spending an hour working just one thing but in different and musical ways. What do you guys think about this approach?

[Talismanis]

Originally Posted by Numberless

What about practicing a single concept bu in different ways, for example taking the paradiddle. First you practice them on a pad/snare at a comfortable tempo, then you can practice them reading Syncopation a la Alan Dawson, then you can work on orchestrating them around the kit and finally work a groove like Steve Gadd. You're spending an hour working just one thing but in different and musical ways. What do you guys think about this approach?

I think that's a good approach and will bring more benefits - of course if you have the time to do one thing for 90 minutes that'll work too, but using your approach lets you practice the paradiddle/whateveryou'replaying AND get used to voicing it and being fun with it :D

[Duracell]

Originally Posted by Numberless

What about practicing a single concept bu in different ways, for example taking the paradiddle. First you practice them on a pad/snare at a comfortable tempo, then you can practice them reading Syncopation a la Alan Dawson, then you can work on orchestrating them around the kit and finally work a groove like Steve Gadd. You're spending an hour working just one thing but in different and musical ways. What do you guys think about this approach?

Sounds like a sound approach to me. Got to apply rudiments to the kit as soon as possible. If only to keep the rudiment relevant.