How to create the best groove for the song

Seasonedpro

Member
When you are faced with a track of music with no drums, how do you pick the best groove for the music?

How do you approach it?

What do you do to avoid making it too box-ish and have it complement the overall feel of the music well?

Finally how do you make it interesting?

This is for everyone. Not one genre in particular. Often I hear grooves and I wonder if presented with that particular track, would I have come up with something just as interesting. Probably not. Sometimes the groove comes first. Not talking about those.

Very interested to hear the responses.
 
If you can analyse the style of music and then if you have a knowledge of a range of grooves that fit certain styles, you can modify it slightly to fit the song. For example, a basic jazz swing, a rock beat. That is a more technical and methodical approach.

I tend to be able to feel the groove quite well, and depending on the song, placing the kick drum on the bass accents really drives the groove, for instance in funk and some styles of jazz, where as opposed to rock, if the bass is playing straight 8ths, the kick will usually play on 1 and 3. I guess it helps to listen to lots of styles of music and just to be a versatile all round player. I think some players would say use fills to make it interesting, but you would be surprised how great you can make the music sound by using lots of dynamics. They are very important in communicating the feel of the music, never underestimate them and always think about the dynamic. Whether it is changing volume from verse to chorus, or building up to the outro, even a little accent at the end of a small feel, can all make a song exciting and interesting.
 
The longer I play, the more I find myself starting with the simplest approach first. If it's a rock tune, I start with something pretty close to the money beat and go from there.

I recently played a session with a guy who was asking me to "busy up" my parts because he wanted the drums to be more aggressive. He suggested bass drum patterns and even a couple fills that complemented a phrase he was playing on guitar. That's a lot of fun.

But I think I was more prone to trying to put "my mark" on a song immediately by coming up with a "signature" drum part when I was younger. I later came to realize that's not a priority at all.
 
the song always tells me what it wants

....and I abide
 
That is so cliche and doesn't help.

cliche?

guess what....that cliche has never failed a good drummer.....not once

how difficult is it to put drums to a song?

seriously

are you a drummer?

listen to the tune....and what the songs wants you play

if the tune has a shuffle feel are you going to play a blast beat ?

this is not brain surgery

whenever anyone has to ask this question I have to question if they are even a musician

hows that for cliche ?
 
I try to sense the entire vibe of the music.
I will often try several grooves until I settle in on what I and the others hear as fitting.
Much of it is cut and dry but there is always a few areas in a tune where there is, "Headroom"
I also try and remember that my primary job is to support the music and not play over it.
It is subjective to many factors as to what is played.
 
hows that for cliche ?

Don't take it so personally dude. Sheesh.

It's easy to recognize the overall feel of a song and a direction it should go. But sometimes it helps to think certain ways. Maybe not for you, but a complex process happens to select the perfect groove.

Is this forum not a place to help others?
 
I don't think that's the best way of starting on this forum.

What say you to the questions?

Sorry. Tone doesn't come across very well online. But it is indeed cliche and it really doesn't help. You can't tell me that some drummers haven't sat down and analyzed a track and composed a groove, not just based on feeling it.
 
Musicians are expected to have a lot of listening behind them, which gives them a working knowledge of all kinds of music, both new and old.

Can you play a convincing R&B groove, like Al Jackson would have played behind Otis Redding? Can you play a Ringo Starr groove or, say, a Steve Gadd groove?

That's what I mean, you need to have many grooves and beats to call upon, you need to have the cannon of literature of drumming under your belt before you can put your own meaningful grooves together.

There's no easy-success formula. It's either experience or sheer luck.
 
Musicians are expected to have a lot of listening behind them, which gives them a working knowledge of all kinds of music, both new and old.

Can you play a convincing R&B groove, like Al Jackson would have played behind Otis Redding? Can you play a Ringo Starr groove or, say, a Steve Gadd groove?

That's what I mean, you need to have many grooves and beats to call upon, you need to have the cannon of literature of drumming under your belt before you can put your own meaningful grooves together.

There's no easy-success formula. It's either experience or sheer luck.

So what you are saying is for you personally it is about having a mental library of grooves to take ideas from?
 
So what you are saying is for you personally it is about having a mental library of grooves to take ideas from?

I'd say so. I play a lot of improv jam music and I can go any number of directions with the beat. Having a mental library of grooves really helps. For me, it really about how the music speaks to me, then my body will respond to it with a groove or a fill.
 
I'd say so. I play a lot of improv jam music and I can go any number of directions with the beat. Having a mental library of grooves really helps. For me, it really about how the music speaks to me, then my body will respond to it with a groove or a fill.

What about if it's in a genre that is a fusion of say bluegrass and old time where there aren't any drummers playing that style? You put a standard groove on top of any of those and it immediately becomes cheese whiz served in a box.
 
I'm less fearful of being too simple or box-ish in my old age - that's the skeleton. How much, if at all, I build on that skeleton depends on my ears and my bandmates' reactions and suggestions, especially that of the singer.

Season, I think the essence of Gvda's "cliche" comment is surrender - to not impose yourself or your ideas on the song but let it come organically. Kenny Werner talks eloquently about this stuff http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-T4plqoEEwM
 
If I get a song with no drums, I start by listening for the rhythm that's coming with the music so far. Once I have that figured out, I can start my process.
So I'll start off trying things in the rhythmic space and see if I can bring more out of it, and then work from there. I'll try a variety of things that I can refer to later as the song blossoms, or, and this is especially great, I can do multiple takes of different things, send those, and let them sort it out. But usually songs fall into place pretty quickly when the drummer's the one adding the parts, I think.
I like to keep things organic and open, so I won't usually lock something down note-for-note with another instrument unless that's the rule. And even though I'm doing more recording like this these days, I still mostly find myself in a practice room with the band or person working things out before the recording session anyway.
What's interesting to me are the songs that are realized and given to me not with a click track, but with a drum machine track. It's an interesting songwriting technique. The tracks are usually not overly busy, and frequently are a short loop. The music seems to be more naturally locked down, even though there may still be flexibility in it. After all, a guitarist programming a drum track won't necessarily have the understanding and knowledge of possibilities that a drummer would.

So I try not to box it in by not putting anything too elaborate into a part...nothing that the others will have to follow [since they can't] or that will crawl on something else.

And I try to make it interesting by it being me, having my style, taste and feeling, and giving as good of a track as I can give. I don't like to add accents for accents' sake, and I don't need a signature fill in each song. I can play a straight beat 'til xmas, so I have no problem with tracking one.
 
Is this forum not a place to help others?

which is exactly what I tried to do .....Mr. Cliche

over thinking things will destroy the nature of a tune

you are either creative or you are not

a technique I use with my students is to say what you want to play before your play it

put on a tune and create a drum part with your voice .....then try to play what you are saying while still saying it

you will be surprised how different it might be than something you may have just played without saying it
 
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No such thing as "best groove" IMO.

There is a "Correct Style". ie Don't play Death metal licks in a blue grass band.
 
What about if it's in a genre that is a fusion of say bluegrass and old time where there aren't any drummers playing that style? You put a standard groove on top of any of those and it immediately becomes cheese whiz served in a box.

Last time I jammed with a bluegrass jug band I played the spoons. So if that tells you anything. but I do know that style and typically drums aren't used except in the simplest forms like the Irish drum. I've used one of those too when I jammed with my dad's band back in the day.
 
When you are faced with a track of music with no drums, how do you pick the best groove for the music?

How do you approach it?

I usually just listen for a moment and start playing— either something I'm hearing in the music, or a generic groove. If I find my first instincts aren't making it, maybe I'll experiment a little bit and see if something different will work. Maybe the leader, composer, or producer will ask for something different, and I will try to accommodate that in a way that makes musical sense to me.

What do you do to avoid making it too box-ish and have it complement the overall feel of the music well?

That just comes from the mysterious box labeled "artistry." I don't know how you go about having something to say musically. I think knowing and loving a lot of music helps.

Finally how do you make it interesting?

It doesn't need to be interesting. It would be nice if it comes out as personal, but that's not actually real important either.
 
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