When to call it quits

I had an interesting discussion the other day with a friend. He's a guitarist/bassist, and prior to turning 50, he had worked a lot. He played constantly with cover bands in the state, did a lot of world touring, and his last big gig was as road manager for a big artist who hit big in the late 60s/early 70s. From time to time, he would be asked to play, until he was unceremoniously fired after working with this artist for a good 20 years of his career.

Now that he's in his 50s, his playing out with others has definitely slowed down, the phone no longer rings for his services, he has a recording studio that is now basically storing all of his gear. Worse, when I told him he should put together another band and get back out there, his response was, "I don't think I'm enthusiastic about going out on the road again to make $300-$400 a night, considering how hard it is to physically do" (apparently, former big-name acts from the 70s member's make about that much per show).

I was never that busy, and am happy to be able to do whatever I get called to do. But, now that I'm in my 50s, I'm increasingly feeling the need to ask myself, "is that all there is?" And I know there have been a few times when I flat-out said no to a couple of projects because it was too much hassle for what it was - another musical project that could end at any time, but I'm bearing too much of the burden.

I know there are a lot of us here who are well past 50 and still enjoy playing. But I'm wondering if those of us who have worked a bit and have histories of working almost constantly, what would you do when the phone stops ringing? Is there a motivation to continue to get better as less and less people call upon you for your services? What's the point? Maybe retirement is just that, and maybe Bill Bruford called it right: retire, before you become completely irrelevant?

This is all just rambling, but I felt for my friend who was talking like this. I got this feeling I was watching a dream just die and fade away, and it was sad.

What say you?

Matt Bo Eder said:

What say you?

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Many of the players I used to work with have given up performing and have taken to teaching, producing, writing, managing, shadowing, and other non-performing roles. They're still doing what they know and love, but in a less physically-demanding role.

I've even seen a couple situation where there are literally two bands with one face. They have five 50-year olds and five 20-somethings. They all write, play, record, etc, but the 20-somethings are the face and tour. The fogies will stay home , write, do PR, merch, bookings, etc. In one instance, one of the Fogies does sound and drives the RV. Occasionally a fogey will sub if someone gets arrested or breaks something.

I'm a decade away from where you are now, so I'm not really in a position to give advice, but If I had to, it would be......

Don't follow your passion. Follow opportunity, and bring your passion with you.

KamaK said:

Many of the players I used to work with have given up performing and have taken to teaching, producing, writing, managing, shadowing, and other non-performing roles. They're still doing what they know and love, but in a less physically-demanding role.

I've even seen a couple situation where there are literally two bands with one face. They have five 50-year olds and five 20-somethings. They all write, play, record, etc, but the 20-somethings are the face and tour. The fogies will stay home , write, do PR, merch, bookings, etc. In one instance, one of the Fogies does sound and drives the RV. Occasionally a fogey will sub if someone gets arrested or breaks something.

I'm a decade away from where you are now, so I'm not really in a position to give advice, but If I had to, it would be......

Don't follow your passion. Follow opportunity, and bring your passion with you.

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Thanks for referring to the older folks as "fogeys". I'm sure we all like that

Matt Bo Eder said:

Thanks for referring to the older folks as "fogeys". I'm sure we all like that

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Fogey Please, I just got my membership card for the northeast chapter this year. If you need me, I'll be down at the Old Country Buffet on Wolf Rd so I can use this coupon I got.

I tried to quit. I really did. Sold or gave away all my stuff. Then a couple years later I was at a party and the drummer let me play his kit. I missed it so much. I went out and bought a kit a few days later. No plans to retire now.

Some guys give up, some don't.
I don't see it as being any more complex than that.

I hit that point about 10 years ago at the ripe old age of 32. I gave up trying to pursue music full time. Music keeps me plenty busy, but I use it for my own sanity and not so much as a job.

Being an entertainer is tough work. It's mentally and physically demanding, and only pays well if you achieve a certain level of popularity on a scale bigger than your local community (which itself is very hard to achieve, even if your skills are up to it).

Basically, if the passion is not there, or the popularity not established, the work will seem too hard -- and that's true for any age.

I think we have all seen acts that should have stopped but still play. Whether their voices are decent or not is up to opinion. If your friend has lost the desire, and I didn't see how long ago he stopped, it may be the right thing. I see no need to get together with 3 or 4 others to play if your heart isn't into it. Maybe a break will work for him, maybe teaching will work, who knows. I say follow your heart, and see if your soul follows.

I'm 52 and while I'm not yet ready to pack it in yet, I can see that it's around the corner. I always said I'd keep playing as long as I can schlep equipment around and so far, so good.

I don't do it for a living, so I get to pick and choose my situations. For me, as long as there are interesting gigs I'll do them. I'm no longer interested in just getting together to "jam" and I don't want to play gigs just for the money. My time seems more valuable now than when I was younger, so I have to want to do it.

As I get older too, I'm starting to thin the herd. Never a big collector anyway, but I find I want to purge the gear I haven't been playing, so that's happening too. Things I thought I couldn't part with now seem ridiculous. I imagine all part of getting older and re-prioritizing.

Hope to keep playing in some way for quite some time, but doing exactly what I want, and with less "stuff" .

Anyway, that's my take on drumming and aging!

Well I'm 54 and have no plans of retiring from my drums, it's too much a part of me to let it go. I have decided to not actively pursue any band opportunities because the music scene around here simply sucks and some of the people you get mixed in with are just too flaky.

If something rears its ugly head in the future, I might check it out.

Now retiring from teaching, that's a different story. I look forward to that day. I figure 5 more years and I can go find the part-time job I've always wanted.

50 still gigging, sure if you have your health why not.
Getting a lot of gigs from bands looking for drummers, seem to be a lot less of them about these days, especially amongst the younger generation.

Roy Haynes is still playing great at 91!!

Cheers
Mick

Well I'm 51 and only just *started* gigging (albeit sporadically).

Follow the fun, that's what I say.

I just turned 40 in June. I'm still pursuing Music as a full time career. Its all I've ever wanted to do.

The hardest part I think is finding other musicians that are focused and committed to making a living in a band. Tons of people talk a good game but very very few follow through. Sadly as drummers we honestly need a band to actually go anywhere. Its not like we can be a solo act!

As I've gotten older there have been many times that I've gotten bummed out that I'm not where I want to be in my music career yet. But the simple truth is that if I give up I will never get there. So my advice is if you love playing and have a goal and a vision you should never give up. Better to die trying then to give up and live with the regret that giving up will bring.

drummingman said:

I just turned 40 in June. I'm still pursuing Music as a full time career. Its all I've ever wanted to do.

The hardest part I think is finding other musicians that are focused and committed to making a living in a band. Tons of people talk a good game but very very few follow through. Sadly as drummers we honestly need a band to actually go anywhere. Its not like we can be a solo act!

As I've gotten older there have been many times that I've gotten bummed out that I'm not where I want to be in my music career yet. But the simple truth is that if I give up I will never get there. So my advice is if you love playing and have a goal and a vision you should never give up. Better to die trying then to give up and live with the regret that giving up will bring.

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Yeah, I get that. But as far as my friend is concerned, he's already done the whole "100% music to make a living thing". I suppose once you've played the big stages, playing music is pretty much the same every time you hit a stage. TBH - sometimes I feel like that too. When you do it all the time, it's just another job that you want to take vacation from. The only problem with that is you get the added stress of providing your own health insurance, and you're not building up a retirement plan, which means you really have to make money so you can sock it away for later. I guess my buddy is just tired of that, and I can understand that.

When I started with my company, I thought it was really cool to be able to have insurance and a retirement plan, and the fact that it was constant is very cool. It allowed me to say "no" to alot of potentially stupid low-paying gigs. So frankly, I'm ok with my low-level playing out. I used to do three or four nights a week back in my 30s and frankly, I only recall a few gigs that were truly musically exceptional. The rest we were just background noise. I do love to play still, but I'm not too broken-hearted if it isn't always in front of a packed house of dancers.

For myself I do my best to only play with bands that I like the music. And I don't play in cover bands. So I'm always creating which keeps my mind engaged.

If I'm playing a small stage or a large stage (and even when I get to playing massive stages to huge crowds) I try to keep it about the music and my love of the music. I think it has to be about that love for the music. Without that it will be too much to deal with.

At some point everything will have days where it will feel like a job. But if it becomes like that all the time with no inspiration it is time to think about doing something else (or at least take a break to recharge and then come back).

This is all my personal perspective. Ever person has to follow their heart.

I have a friend who quit a very successful local band, and the parting was not a graceful one. The experience led him to announce his "retirement" from the drum on FB. Then, after a year or so, he complained that he wasn't getting called for gigs! Now he plays only the gigs he wants to take, since his teaching studio is doing pretty well. It's an enviable position to play only the gigs that you want, or that pay well, and not have to be on the road to do it.

Matt Bo Eder said:

Maybe retirement is just that, and maybe Bill Bruford called it right: retire, before you become completely irrelevant?

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Maybe he wasn't referring to himself, but his band? Letting go of an old format would be liberating; he can go kick around with any band now, and explore different territory, without the pressure of living up to his past band's commercial and critical success.

Any maybe that's the ticket: to view yourself as an archaeologist, exploring new musical worlds, rather than a zero sum game of "winning" a certain amount of fame or money, or playing only the music you like at a young age. Personally, I love a good bar band gig, and playing jazz, and blues, and big band, and fusion, and Latin. I didn't initially like all of this music; much of it grew on me after I was forced to learn it. Now I seem to love whatever I have the least experience playing, for the new-ness and challenge of it, and the things I've played forever, since I do them better.

Bo, you said "when I started with my company"...

Does that mean you work for a "regular"company, meaning non music related?

I must have missed that. What do you do?

larryace said:

Bo, you said "when I started with my company"...

Does that mean you work for a "regular"company, meaning non music related?

I must have missed that. What do you do?

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I meant when I started with that huge entertainment company as an employee. Not the most musically satisfying, but I was playing. And now I'm more on the technical audio side, but still connected to the entertainment. So it's a nice trade-off: I still get the dynamics of entertainment by dealing with creative people, but I do it in 40-50 hour chunks every week, with medical, retirement, and vacations thrown in.

I'm in the demographic of this topic, being 53. I have no plans to get done anytime soon, which isn't surprising, as I only just got back into playing in the last couple years.

Still, there are lots and lots of guys my age and older working in this area, so I see no reason for me to want to stop. I was really encouraged by that, as I got back into the gig scene here.

I do understand you guys who have been doing this for 20 years or more, maybe wanting to cut back or taking a break tho....I never got the chance when I was younger, so I'm making up for lost time. At this point, I'm so energized and excited to be playing, it rarely feels like a job, even playing Mustang Sally for 20 people.