Ghost Drummer for Kiss, Jimi, Alice Cooper etc

Bernard Purdie was asked to keep his mouth shut by Brian Epstein!!,..back in the 60's.

Ahhh,no.That never happened except in Purdies mind.Just listen to the drums on any Beatle song Ringo played on,and you can tell it's him.McCartney played on a few Beatle tunes,but,that's the ONLY other guy to lay down a drum track on ANY Beatle album.

When the Beatles recorded ,they mostly played a tune live,then added additional instruments/sound effects,so the drum tracks were never completely isolated,so these was bleed through to other tracks.

Steve B
 
Ahhh,no.That never happened except in Purdies mind.


Im confident it happened, there's no reason for Purdie to make something up like that, too complex a story for no foreseeable gain.

The question/debate is weather the stuff he recorded got released or not.

Here's Schwartzberg doing it, its not a 70/80's thing, it goes back to the 60's and possibly even bf that.
 
Ahhh,no.That never happened except in Purdies mind.Just listen to the drums on any Beatle song Ringo played on,and you can tell it's him.McCartney played on a few Beatle tunes,but,that's the ONLY other guy to lay down a drum track on ANY Beatle album.

When the Beatles recorded ,they mostly played a tune live,then added additional instruments/sound effects,so the drum tracks were never completely isolated,so these was bleed through to other tracks.

Steve B

Im confident it happened, there's no reason for Purdie to make something up like that, too complex a story for no foreseeable gain.

The question/debate is weather the stuff he recorded got released or not.

Here's Schwartzberg doing it, its not a 70/80's thing, it goes back to the 60's and possibly even bf that.

Oh this has been covered many times before.

Purdie never replaced Ringo.

After the Beatles became popular, the record company dug up some early demos from the Germany days when the Beatles were hired to be backing band for Tony Sheridan.

Purdie apparently over dubbed a drum track due to Pete Best's drumming not being very audible on the demo tapes, and they were released as early singles in the US around 1963.

Purdie never appeared on any album, and never replaced anything Ringo has done. However, Ringo had already joined the Beatles at the time these older demos were doctored up, thus his confusion. Although Purdie's claims he played on 21 songs, or on any albums holds no water.

There is evidence to support this, as these 3 songs were recorded before Ringo joined the band, but the drums are noticeably a tad louder than many songs of that era, indicating a possible over dub. And the drumming is pretty solid, and most reports were Best wasn't very solid, thus his firing from the band.

Ain't She Sweet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1FSRMfNtLU

Kansas City

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ePhxBk1ydo

Ready Teddy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPBORg1Mi6g
 
I am almost positive my favorite drummers are the ones who played on the albums. I am positive Lars played on the first four Metallica albums, Dave Lombardo played through the Seasons album and Nick Mensa played on Rust in Peace.
 
it's funny how you never hear of this happening with jazz players

....hey we just found out that Philly Joe did not actually play on Sonny Clarks Cool Struttin' album but Joe Shmoe actually did that date because Philly just couldn't keep time and Alfred Lion and Rudy VanGelder just couldn't deal with it ....

No more than King Crimson or Porcupine Tree would bring in session players because Bill and Gavin couldn't make it :)

Rock as a rule relies more on extramusical elements - lyrics, sexuality, image, stage antics, lights and effects etc, There's also more of a fraternal thing within the band, which can favour well-liked weak players, especially if the band is part of a scene.

More than anything, though, rock has volume. Playing live you can hide a multitude of sins in a wall of noise that would stick out like dogs' balls in the studio.
 
perfectly put

it's funny how you never hear of this happening with jazz players

....hey we just found out that Philly Joe did not actually play on Sonny Clarks Cool Struttin' album but Joe Shmoe actually did that date because Philly just couldn't keep time and Alfred Lion and Rudy VanGelder just couldn't deal with it ....

Yeah, true, but in jazz it's not unusual for different players to be on different albums.

And in most jazz bands, there was the leader, and the sidemen. It was expected that there would be different line ups of sidemen. No one bought Bitches Brew expecting it to be the same guys who played on Some Kind of Blue.

Or like Steve Smith said about Steps Ahead "Some times I do the gig, sometimes Peter does the gig, it just depends..."

So in jazz there has never been anything to "hide".

Where as in most situations in this conversation, the marketing dictated that someone cool be in the band photo, the video and on the tour.
 
McCartney played on a few Beatle tunes,but,that's the ONLY other guy to lay down a drum track on ANY Beatle album. Steve B

Hi Steve,

I have read that the end of Dear Prudence had McCartney, Lennon and Harrison all playing on the same drum kit at the same time. If true, my guess is that Paul was sitting on the throne while the other two stood.
 
I thought Anton Fig sounded great on the albums that Peter Criss' picture was on

:)

as did Bob Kulick where Ace was pictured

these dudes didn't care.... they were too high

Bob Kulick would come out from recording Aces' tracks and Ace would ask.... how did I sound ?

that being said..... on what I consider the best and most raw KISS albums.... the first 3.... Peter and Ace are indeed playing on them

all the ghosting started on Destroyer when Bob Ezrin realized he hated Aces' guitar playing
 
Though I read this in Modern Drummer (I think) many years ago, and is not about a particular drummer being replaced, I still find it pretty interesting and relevant to this thread. Lionel Ritchie allegedly had 3 or 4 drummers come in to play on a particular track. He supposedly picked particular parts of the drum kit from each player's groove that he liked the most and put them all together. So the final product may have had one guys hi-hat playing and another guys snare and another's bass drum playing, etc, etc. Maybe this occurs more than we think too?
 
So the final product may have had one guys hi-hat playing and another guys snare and another's bass drum playing, etc, etc. Maybe this occurs more than we think too?

Sure...easy-peasy for ProTools.
Lets face it, none of us know. I just read today that in the new CSNY 74 boxset (i.e. live concerts from that tour) some of the vocal tracks are 'tuned'. The horror!

I admire these session guys - go in - lay it down - get paid - go home, and nobody knows. They stay silent in their modesty, and contract. A great mystery.
 
...Just listen to the drums on any Beatle song Ringo played on,and you can tell it's him.McCartney played on a few Beatle tunes,but,that's the ONLY other guy to lay down a drum track on ANY Beatle album.

Except for...Andrew "Andy" White (born 27 July 1930) is a Scottish drummer, best known for replacing Ringo Starr on drums on The Beatles' first single, "Love Me Do". White featured on the American 7" single release of the song, which also appeared on the band's debut British album, Please Please Me. He also played on the "Love Me Do" single B-side, "P.S. I Love You" (Wikipedia)

I also read this in a book written about the Beatles studio sessions.

And here:

http://www.allmusic.com/artist/andy-white-mn0002299011
 
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Except for...Andrew "Andy" White (born 27 July 1930) is a Scottish drummer, best known for replacing Ringo Starr on drums on The Beatles' first single, "Love Me Do". White featured on the American 7" single release of the song, which also appeared on the band's debut British album, Please Please Me. He also played on the "Love Me Do" single B-side, "P.S. I Love You" (Wikipedia)

I also read this in a book written about the Beatles studio sessions.

And here:

http://www.allmusic.com/artist/andy-white-mn0002299011

Yep,I forgot about Andy on the single version of 'Love Me Do ',but Ringo is on the album version.

Steve B
 
Hi Steve,

I have read that the end of Dear Prudence had McCartney, Lennon and Harrison all playing on the same drum kit at the same time. If true, my guess is that Paul was sitting on the throne while the other two stood.

I know ,if I can find the info,some demo tracks, where there were drums,they were played by Harrison,so I guess that's entirely possible.Paul was a pretty decent drummer,and I know Harrison had kit in his house.

What I should have said is,I think with the exception of "Within You,Without You " I think,no other studio drummers were brought in to record Beatle tunes,that were released on Beatle albums.

Steve B
 
I know ,if I can find the info,some demo tracks, where there were drums,they were played by Harrison,so I guess that's entirely possible.Paul was a pretty decent drummer,and I know Harrison had kit in his house.

What I should have said is,I think with the exception of "Within You,Without You " I think,no other studio drummers were brought in to record Beatle tunes,that were released on Beatle albums.

Steve B

I'm guessing that was a George Martin call.
 
I know ,if I can find the info,some demo tracks, where there were drums,they were played by Harrison,so I guess that's entirely possible.Paul was a pretty decent drummer,and I know Harrison had kit in his house.

What I should have said is,I think with the exception of "Within You,Without You " I think,no other studio drummers were brought in to record Beatle tunes,that were released on Beatle albums.

Steve B

Hi Steve, thanks for your reply.

Even though I'm a huge Beatles fan, and Ringo has been a major influence on me, until I started reading about their recording process I must admit that I was unaware that Ringo was not playing on every song (except for the well known Pete Best early tracks). It seems that as the years went on Paul would quite often be pretty specific with Ringo about what type of drumming he wanted in many songs. That would explain why, at least to me, it was not readily apparent when Paul would be playing on some songs such as The Ballad of John and Yoko or Why Don't We Do it in the Road?. Most probably, Paul's drumming was significantly influenced by Ringo in their early career and as Paul became more proficient in his drumming the influence went both ways. Just my humble opinion.
 
I'm not surprised to hear about the Hendrix stuff. I was never into most of the posthumously released stuff. I thought most of it should have stayed unreleased. Hal spoke of everyone's sloppy playing but I also think it sounds like very uninspired writing. Some of those tunes have awesome grooves though. Which is not what I've come to love Mitches playing for. It definitely sounds like someone else playing.

Edit: here's a solid example. Check the awesome groove on this. Doesn't sound much like Mitch to me.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9LYbuL2-bM8
 
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It seems that as the years went on Paul would quite often be pretty specific with Ringo about what type of drumming he wanted in many songs. That would explain why, at least to me, it was not readily apparent when Paul would be playing on some songs such as The Ballad of John and Yoko or Why Don't We Do it in the Road?. Most probably, Paul's drumming was significantly influenced by Ringo in their early career and as Paul became more proficient in his drumming the influence went both ways. Just my humble opinion.

Yes, my guess is that the influence went both ways. I suspect that some of Ringo's much admired drums parts were devised by Paul. You'd be mad if you didn't take seriously ideas from one of the most naturally talented all-round musicians in rock history.

Edit: here's a solid example. Check the awesome groove on this. Doesn't sound much like Mitch to me.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9LYbuL2-bM8

If it's not Mitch then the drummer is trying to play Mitch-style fills. According to Wiki, it's Mitch on this track but Buddy Miles and someone named Rocky Isaac play on a couple of other tunes. IMM might have kept a few tricks up his sleeve ...
 
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