Recording project needs you

All true. If you are a pro looking to get paid then this is not for you. If you are looking to collaborate and you like drumming and you like recording and you (optional) like the example song, then get in touch. You will not be taking money from the pocket of another drummer, because this is not a paying session.

Many thanks for the positive interest from those of you who have replied so far. PM me if you want a drumless version of that demo track to have a go at.

What you're doing though is giving the impression that drummers shouldn't get paid to spend time learning parts, playing, learning to record those parts and all of the equipment that goes along with that. I might perform for nothing on a personal project - Hell, I release my music for free - but I would never ask anybody else to do that if I expected something to be of a releasable standard.

What you're saying is that it's good 'exposure' and that they'll get a 'songwriting credit'. Frankly, if it's good enough to be exposed to others and the song writing credit is worth a damn, you should &^%$ing well be paying them to perform on the track. You're dragging down everybody's pay.

The other one that gets me is being asked to play/tech for nothing for a charity event. My litmus test is whether security and catering staff are being paid. In which case, they can damn well pay me as well. At my hourly rate. On my terms.
 
The other one that gets me is being asked to play/tech for nothing for a charity event. My litmus test is whether security and catering staff are being paid. In which case, they can damn well pay me as well. At my hourly rate. On my terms.

Very often, companies will donate their time and services, for which they can take a tax deduction. Granted, a deduction doesn't really qualify as revenue, so it's an altruistic balancing act.

Agreed about "my terms", I always make the decision about how much/little I will work for, and if there's any benefit for me donating my time (which I can't write-off as far as I know.) It's very rare that I play for free, only one regular show a year that I can think of - the Elvis Presley Birthday Bash - which features a ton of great L.A. artists doing Elvis songs. The 'party' of it all truly exceeds whatever pay I'd get anyway. But, it is on my terms that I donate my services, nobody insists on it, or resents if I were to refuse.

But back to the track, I don't think it's improper to have asked the question. There are many great players here who can either afford to do a fun project, or who aren't pursuing paid gigs anyway. As I said, I'd love to record the track, but I'm not set-up for home recording.

Bermuda
 
I'll take that as a no from you then. 👍
What you're doing though is giving the impression that drummers shouldn't get paid to spend time learning parts, playing, learning to record those parts and all of the equipment that goes along with that. I might perform for nothing on a personal project - Hell, I release my music for free - but I would never ask anybody else to do that if I expected something to be of a releasable standard.

What you're saying is that it's good 'exposure' and that they'll get a 'songwriting credit'. Frankly, if it's good enough to be exposed to others and the song writing credit is worth a damn, you should &^%$ing well be paying them to perform on the track. You're dragging down everybody's pay.

The other one that gets me is being asked to play/tech for nothing for a charity event. My litmus test is whether security and catering staff are being paid. In which case, they can damn well pay me as well. At my hourly rate. On my terms.
 
A wise man once told me, "Do things you don't get paid to do and one day you'll get paid for things you didn't do." Humility, kindness, and generosity go a long way toward success in life. I used to have a blast playing drums in a jazz quartet with my cousins. We played a number of weddings for friends and family members. The fun, the playing, and the pay all stopped at the point where my cousins began Georgia State University's School of Music. They drove the price through the roof because, "We're serious musicians and people need to pay us what we're worth." The point at which I really lost respect was when the guitar player sat in his parents' living room (where they fed and sheltered him) and refused to go and get the guitar (that they bought for him as a gift) to play Christmas Carols because, "I don't play unless I get paid anymore."

Respect is earned, not demanded. I mean, really guys, how many of us enjoy and benefit from Mr. Bermuda's participation on this forum. He doesn't get paid for that. Some here would do well to study both his success and his attitude...there's probably a correlation.

Samxday, if I had mics and an interface, I'd be happy to participate. Unfortunately, I don't think iPhone audio is going to get you what you want. Best wishes on your journey.
 
This is not only a stupid argument, but damaging to the community and the industry. If I didn't love the drums, would I put my through the rigmarole of doing it professionally? It's only because I love it that I can stand to work in this messed up industry, epitomized by this thread and your response.

To get to the level where I can play virtually anything on command, in a studio, while on the clock, has taken me years of work and thousands of hours of practice, which continues to this day. The OP is asking for me to do this for a 'writing credit'. You are telling me to 'have some fun with it'. Meanwhile, my bank are asking for my mortgage payments, and the one thing I do to make money is being treated as a hobby.

"damaging to the community and the industry" really? No one's forcing you to work on this project. The OP asked for people who would be interested in collaborating, people came with the attitude of "if I can't get paid I won't do it". Obviously people have bills to pay and all that crap. And also some people here play drums for a living. But if you remotely enjoy drums, why does everything have to be paid? Do you get paid to just practice your craft? Yes, recording takes a little extra time than just practicing to set up equipment and do all that stuff but if it's something you would enjoy doing, and you have the time, then why not? If you don't, then no one is forcing you to do anything and you don't have to come in with a crappy attitude. Something like "seems cool but I don't have the time" or something like what bermuda said is so much less toxic than some of the backlash I'm seeing here
 
"damaging to the community and the industry" really? No one's forcing you to work on this project. The OP asked for people who would be interested in collaborating, people came with the attitude of "if I can't get paid I won't do it". Obviously people have bills to pay and all that crap. And also some people here play drums for a living. But if you remotely enjoy drums, why does everything have to be paid? Do you get paid to just practice your craft? Yes, recording takes a little extra time than just practicing to set up equipment and do all that stuff but if it's something you would enjoy doing, and you have the time, then why not? If you don't, then no one is forcing you to do anything and you don't have to come in with a crappy attitude. Something like "seems cool but I don't have the time" or something like what bermuda said is so much less toxic than some of the backlash I'm seeing here

It's damaging to the industry because recording the drums for other people's projects is a core aspect of the professional role. Just like installing boilers is a core aspect of a plumber/boiler engineer/electrician's role. The industry has an extremely hard time fighting off the "no-pay" attitude your common man has towards musicians. Their argument is always "why should I pay when someone else will do it for free?", and as long as there are people willing to do it for free, that argument will continue to exist, and put professionals out of work.

I also never came here saying this was forced down my throat, or that others shouldn't do it. I asked what the end goal of the project was, and said that I was suspicious it was a plug for free recording work. I even said that this might just be me being cynical. I never tried to stop anyone else from getting involved.

Also, having bills to pay is not "all that crap", it is part of staying alive.

As for your question of why does everything have to be paid, the simple answer is, it's my job. That's how jobs work. If you have a problem with drums being a job, then your comments should be directed at every working drummer, not just me.
 
It's damaging to the industry because recording the drums for other people's projects is a core aspect of the professional role. Just like installing boilers is a core aspect of a plumber/boiler engineer/electrician's role. The industry has an extremely hard time fighting off the "no-pay" attitude your common man has towards musicians. Their argument is always "why should I pay when someone else will do it for free?", and as long as there are people willing to do it for free, that argument will continue to exist, and put professionals out of work.

I also never came here saying this was forced down my throat, or that others shouldn't do it. I asked what the end goal of the project was, and said that I was suspicious it was a plug for free recording work. I even said that this might just be me being cynical. I never tried to stop anyone else from getting involved.

Also, having bills to pay is not "all that crap", it is part of staying alive.

As for your question of why does everything have to be paid, the simple answer is, it's my job. That's how jobs work. If you have a problem with drums being a job, then your comments should be directed at every working drummer, not just me.
The whole world has bills to pay and mouths to feed. If your chosen profession isn't doing it, that's your problem, not the industry's and especially not a dude on the internet looking to make a collaborative recording.
 
The whole world has bills to pay and mouths to feed. If your chosen profession isn't doing it, that's your problem, not the industry's and especially not a dude on the internet looking to make a collaborative recording.

This is getting ridiculous. I'm bowing out before this becomes a mud-slinging match. I meant no offence to anybody, I was just trying to raise the question of people working for free in an already difficult industry.

Good luck with your project OP.
 
This is getting ridiculous. I'm bowing out before this becomes a mud-slinging match. I meant no offence to anybody, I was just trying to raise the question of people working for free in an already difficult industry.

Good luck with your project OP.

I think we can agree that MJ took the high road here, hence raising the quality of the exchange. Kudos.
 
As drummers we do a fun thing.

Other things that humans do in the pursuit of satisfaction include cooking, home maintenance/improvement, fixing mechanical objects, painting pictures and having sex.

Some humans do these same things as ways to make money.

If you do one or more of these things as a way to make money, in order to continue making money, you need to be demonstrably better at them than people who do them for free.

As a drummer, my output is only slightly better than this famous piece of art restoration:
0233193d4c706bdae7460d8a362890c1.jpg


That's why I am prepared to play for close to free. Much as the lady who 'restored' the artwork did it for the love of contributing to her community. She didn't put any professional art restorers out of business.

Also as a drummer, I'll play for free sometimes, but charge when I can. Somebody who is looking for a drummer who can play "virtually anything, on command" is not going to be calling me.
 
As drummers we do a fun thing.

Other things that humans do in the pursuit of satisfaction include cooking, home maintenance/improvement, fixing mechanical objects, painting pictures and having sex.

Some humans do these same things as ways to make money.

If you do one or more of these things as a way to make money, in order to continue making money, you need to be demonstrably better at them than people who do them for free.

As a drummer, my output is only slightly better than this famous piece of art restoration:
0233193d4c706bdae7460d8a362890c1.jpg


That's why I am prepared to play for close to free. Much as the lady who 'restored' the artwork did it for the love of contributing to her community. She didn't put any professional art restorers out of business.

Also as a drummer, I'll play for free sometimes, but charge when I can. Somebody who is looking for a drummer who can play "virtually anything, on command" is not going to be calling me.

I want that fresco on my wall! That was an awesome "restoration" ;)
 
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