The generation that the doctors betrayed

Today is no different than the 1960s.

We're no different today. Someone tells us organic food is better for us, and we believe it. I guess it just "feels right," or something, so it must be true. That there's no evidence to support the claims is beside the point, I guess. Critical thought is hard to come by anymore, it seems. Opinions are all treated as equal. Nobody has to prove anything, it's all subjective. Science is too scary.

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Awww... Come on 8Mile! If you read it on the internet or saw it on TV, it MUST be true.

Apparently common sense isn't a flower that grows in some folks' gardens anymore. ;-) That's why I'm moving back home to Rogers City, MI. Up there, they can't afford to grow anything else!
 
the doctors themselves were using. eating, smoking all of the same things we were. Who remembers "9 out of 10 Doctors smoke Camels" Or Recommend Camels. I think people are a little slow on the uptake. Do we really need products on the shelves with 38% of the salt per helping in the product. We have gotten so use to the taste of salt that was used for a preservative back in the day that we now have to have enough of it in a can of soup to preserve it for 5 years. Does anything sit on any grocery shelf for 5 years? NO. Read the labels, watch out for yourself, and don't depend on the Governments misinformation to protect you. Watch the movie Fatso if you want the truth on food, chloestrol etc. A real eye opener. I work at a hospital and see and hear things every day that surprise me. I don't feel betrayed as much as I feel uninformed. And I can't blame anyone for that but me.
 
If I needed to exist at any point in history to benefit from medical technology - today is my choice. We have stuff that's ridiculous.

A very, very, very special and unique procedure, with special machines done by a special doctor saved my wife's life by removing an almost unheard of tumor on the base of her brain.

Do I feel betrayed - nope.

I totally agree with you on this David. I have no problem with the surgeons, and everyone connected with this kind of thing. I single out the pill pushing health robbing doctors. Of course, how your wife got that tumor in the first place is really the issue.. Thank god they were able to save her. This is where medicine is awesome. Still, preventing that tumor is better than the alternative. If humans came with a care and feeding manual, very little of what we put in and on our bodies would be included in it.

My mom is 82, not in great health, and right now has bad bronchitis. They gave her antibiotics and steroids. Steroids? Isn't her liver having a tough enough time battling the bronchitis? I asked her what the steroids were for and she said she didn't know. I'm sure the doctor would say so any inflammation would subside, but geez at what cost? This is more what I'm talking about. She's not in good health as it is and he feels it's OK to tax her system with steroids? He even told her, don't take them too long because that's bad. Lol. But she's entrenched in the system. You can't change peoples minds.
 
Most people in positions of authority, especially in the medical and scientific communities, do the very best they can with the information they have at the time. Hindsight is always 20/20 and its very easy to point and blame others in the past. But the fact is that knowledge and experience drive decision making, not loosely tested hypothesis, and controversy, and secrecy.

There wasn't enough evidence to convince the people making decisions and the public that pesticides, the casual consumption of alcohol and tobacco, transfats, cholesterol, simple carbohydrates, etc. could be dangerous in the long term. Very few people knew better.

Today there is just as much if not more uncertainty on the "heathiness" of the Western lifestyle...

Sure, pesticides may not be ideal, but I can't imagine what science experiment farmers are spraying on their "organic" foods, bleh. Organic foods lose every time in blind taste tests to standard grow foods. They are more expensive for no good reason. Organic food production does not stimulate the economy.

We still don't really understand what causes the slippery slope of cholesterol and heart disease. Its more prevalent now than it ever has been and we are arguably healthier than any generation of people since the industrial revolution. Paleolithic man ate a very high cholesterol, high saturated fat diet, but that period in human evolution saw the greatest increase in brain size and life expectancy, and heart disease wasn't even heard of. So what does it really mean to be healthy? That's a question we've trying to answer for a long time. The food pyramid used to be all the rage but now that's out the window.

The book is still open on gmo's, marijuana, etc, the list goes on.

Just my two cents.
 
Wow, I almost wish I had never started this thread.

I know that we are lucky to have some of the incredible medical advances of the past century or so. Some of you might recall a thread in which I discussed my recent surgery and how, after years of trying alternative therapies, I finally had the surgery and my issue was handled. In that thread I mentioned how I was annoyed that the doc was late to my initial appointment until I found out that he was late because he was busy reattaching the arm of a construction worker. Talk about an attitude adjustment.

For the longest time, the domain of the doctor has been interventional. If you needed your arm reattached, only a microsurgeon could do it. Put another way, Omega 3's and exercise don't fix bad mitral valves. Maybe they deserve some slack because, after all, they had their hands full with those things that they actually could fix.

I believe the error they made was that they minimized the role of actual healthy life habits. Does anyone remember the original "basic food groups" Why in the world was bread one of them? Was it because the doctors actually thought that bread was good for us or was it because they folded under pressure from other sources? Or did they just not know better? Or is it something else entirely?

I don't believe in grand conspiracies. I can't get two people to keep a secret much less an entire profession. I do know that the health of the public was compromised, however. Look at the obesity and diabetes rates in the USA. Is that no one's responsibility? The food manufacturers? or just general ignorance?

Maybe it's all part of general scientific progress and I'm totally off but it seems that the recent push towards healthier foods and life habits did not come from the medical establishment. It seems to have started from the fringe and then, after enough proof of it accumulated, the doctors were forced to go along or else be left behind.

Anyway, none of this changes the fact that we are now on the verge of absolutely incredible medical breakthroughs, from nanobots to genetics. I just hope I live long enough so that I can get in on the extended life span potential that is being uncovered.
 
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Larry's posts on another thread got me thinking.

For anyone born in the 1960's here in America, we were betrayed by the doctors and big business.

The Space Age was in full swing. We were so advanced that we were convinced that we had bested nature.

Our mothers were told not to breast feed because "formula was better". The formula that was essentially sugar, starch and water.

Our baby food was just as bad. Sugary gunk with no nutritional value.

Trans fats replaced the essential oils in our diet because they lasted indefinitely on the shelves.

Fiber? We don't need no stinking fiber!

Our parents smoked, as a matter of fact, almost every adult smoked and we were just expected to breathe it in.

Our breakfasts were high glycemic carbs and fatty processed meats.

Our generation got the frozen TV dinners, the Twinkies, the soda and the fruit juice from concentrate. I remember mixing the semi-solid concentrate goo with water to "make orange juice".

Our fruits and vegetables (when we actually had any) were covered in pesticides.

I could go on.

Contrast that to today. My daughter was breast fed, eats organic food and takes essential fatty acid supplements.

Yeah, we got screwed.
Boo-hoo.

No, not really.

We ate well, played well, had one or two TV stations in most towns, were protected from social media bullying, scraped our knees, were vaccinated against disease, got student loans and went to college. Women who couldn't produce milk had help with high-quality baby formula. Dumb conspiracy theories about GMOs and vaccinations simply didn't exist, keeping us well-fed and protected against disease.

Born 1965.
 
Boo-hoo.

No, not really.

We ate well, played well, had one or two TV stations in most towns, were protected from social media bullying, scraped our knees, were vaccinated against disease, got student loans and went to college. Women who couldn't produce milk had help with high-quality baby formula. Dumb conspiracy theories about GMOs and vaccinations simply didn't exist, keeping us well-fed and protected against disease.

Born 1965.

There was no high quality baby formula back then. Sorry to burst your bubble.
 
Both of my sons were 100% breast-fed. No formula at all. Breast milk is the best thing a baby could have. It has all the good stuff they need, and the mother's body naturally regulates the caloric content based on supply & demand. It really is a remarkable thing. I realize that some mothers aren't able to breast feed and I don't look down on that. But so often, I see mothers just do the formula thing because it's just easier and quicker for them.

We also don't subscribe to the "just put them in the crib and let them cry themselves to sleep" school of thinking, either. But that's probably too weird of a tangent to get off on here.
 
Does anyone remember the original "basic food groups" Why in the world was bread one of them? Was it because the doctors actually thought that bread was good for us or was it because they folded under pressure from other sources? Or did they just not know better? Or is it something else entirely?

Bread has a lot of calories and whole wheat grains have a lot of nutritional value, its easy to make, and and BEER was born out of bread production. Its not unhealthy by any means. Bread has been an integral part of human culture and literally our survival! Its the "bread and butter"; its why we "break bread" at special occasions. Every ancient culture that could harvest grain was making bread, period. Its not a stretch to understand why nutritional and dietitians included bread/grains as a major food group, because it is. Its the most been the most consumed food for centuries even before Wonder Bread and major food manufactures.

As with anything, too much of a good thing is bad. Brad tastes good and we eat a crap ton of bread nowadays. Gluten tastes good, and most bread you buy has a crap ton of gluten in it. Gluten and carbohydrates are not necessarily bad for you, but after high consumption for long periods of time, you body chemistry evolves into something else that doesn't behave well.

I don't believe in grand conspiracies. I can't get two people to keep a secret much less an entire profession. I do know that the health of the public was compromised, however. Look at the obesity and diabetes rates in the USA. Is that no one's responsibility? The food manufacturers? or just general ignorance?

Only you are responsible for your health. Food manufactures are not trend setters; they are follwers 100%. Food manufactures will make what people are buying. If we stop buying crap, they will stop making crap. They did not force this crazy processed food on us. They saw that the average customer was looking for foods that were easier to cook/prepare/eat and that lasted longer, and they responded. You could argue that maybe this has spiraled out of control, but its a lot better than it used to be.

Maybe it's all part of general scientific progress and I'm totally off but it seems that the recent push towards healthier foods and life habits did not come from the medical establishment. It seems to have started from the fringe and then, after enough proof of it accumulated, the doctors were forced to go along or else be left behind.

I'd definitely say that the paradigm shift resulted from continued research on the part of dietitians and nutritionists. With any change in thinking, it takes time. The scientific and medical communities are very conservative - its takes extraordinary evidence to prove extraordinary claims the defy conventional thinking. That evidence can only come from countless labs tests and trials, not the fringe.
 
But so often, I see mothers just do the formula thing because it's just easier and quicker for them.

Incredible, isn't it, that women might have dozens of other things to do and might selfishly appreciate having their lives made just that bit easier.

I'm interested to discover how you know what their reasons are, by the way, and why you appear to think it's ok to judge them?
 
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For a topic such as this, the following may be relevant:

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but they are not entitled to their own facts.
 
This thread just isn't worth the hostility. I'm out.
 
Alright, everyone, just mellow out here.

We the people of the United States (don't worry, it'll trickle down to the rest of you guys in other countries) now have the best health care system in the entire world - thanks to Obama Care.

The preceding message was 88% Sarcasm with 12% Natural flavorings. Yummy!
 
Incredible, isn't it, that women might have dozens of other things to do and might selfishly appreciate having their lives made just that bit easier.

I'm interested to discover how you know what their reasons are, by the way, and why you appear to think it's ok to judge them?

I'm not judging anybody. Clearly you missed the part of my post where I said "....and I don't look down on that."

How do I know what their reasons are? Easy. Just about all of my friends and I are at the point where we are all starting families. And since we're all friends, we talk and share our experiences with each other. Most often, the reason is that once the mom's have to return to work, they simply aren't able to do it. Again, that's understandable, and, again, I don't look down on them for that. Not every family is as fortunate as mine in that my wife can stay home with the baby full-time.

But, then, I've seen women who opt to not breast feed simply because they either don't know/don't care about the benefits of it. They just do what their parents did. And then I have seen women opt not to breast feed for some pretty selfish and bizarre reasons. One mom I know thought it was some type of weird sexual thing. Another was more concerned about getting her pre-baby body back and didn't want "that thing hanging off of me all day".
 
Alright, everyone, just mellow out here.

We the people of the United States (don't worry, it'll trickle down to the rest of you guys in other countries) now have the best health care system in the entire world - thanks to Obama Care.

The preceding message was 88% Sarcasm with 12% Natural flavorings. Yummy!

Actually your fully private health system is the most expensive in the world. You have long spent more on health care than other countries - with worse results.

It seems counter intuitive - not sure what factors are behind this or whether untrammelled private operators simply ripped you guys off.
 
I guess there's just no reasoning with an erstwhile full-time breastfeeding mum like me.
 
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