[REDACTED]

I use them in a limited way, to reinforce something I'm saying, so I might write "Thank you, that helps :) "

I don't rely on what are, after all, nothing more than a grouping of punctuation marks alone to communicate the inflexion of my voice or my facial expression, so I wouldn't use them in an attempt to turn a sarcastic comment into a light-hearted one, unless I knew the person I was addressing very, very well - and I don't know anybody on here sufficiently.

When they are used in that way, I find it a bit arrogant (for want of a better word) because the writer is expecting the reader to make the effort to understand what s/he means, whereas I think the onus is on the writer to make him/herself clear. Having a joke and a laugh can often be done far better orally than in writing. My personal rule of thumb: if it reads snidey, sarky or mean without the emoticon, re-write it until it doesn't.

Edited to answer your last question: yes it does matter, by and large, if you could have said it in a way that wasn't hurtful. The only exception that I can think of off the top of my head is if the other person took offence because they were determined to do so when nobody else would have.
 
I use them in a limited way, to reinforce something I'm saying, so I might write "Thank you, that helps :) "

I don't rely on what are, after all, nothing more than a grouping of punctuation marks alone to communicate the inflexion of my voice or my facial expression, so I wouldn't use them in an attempt to turn a sarcastic comment into a light-hearted one, unless I knew the person I was addressing very, very well - and I don't know anybody on here sufficiently.

When they are used in that way, I find it a bit arrogant (for want of a better word) because the writer is expecting the reader to make the effort to understand what s/he means, whereas I think the onus is on the writer to make him/herself clear. Having a joke and a laugh can often be done far better orally than in writing. My personal rule of thumb: if it reads snidey, sarky or mean without the emoticon, re-write it until it doesn't.
I think that was really well put Magenta. I employ the 'preview post' button (sometimes repeatedly) and make the 'necessary' changes...sometimes I give up without posting as I am not confident I have worded something properly..
I also think you're very accurate with the onus being on the writer as well as the reader...good post.
 
I think that was really well put Magenta. I employ the 'preview post' button (sometimes repeatedly) and make the 'necessary' changes...sometimes I give up without posting as I am not confident I have worded something properly..
I also think you're very accurate with the onus being on the writer as well as the reader...good post.

Why, thank you, Jonny :)

And you're dead right about using the "preview post" facility. Sometimes those couple of seconds, and a slightly different look, make a huge difference.
 
I think an easier method of communicating would be to use proper grammar, Capitalize the names of songs, albums, singers names, books. I have yet to see an emoticon in the dictionary that is my guide to proper spelling and grammar. Probably why smilies and such are not supposed to be used on this forum I think if you have to use one of these, 8+) at the end of every sentence to suggest a joke or sarcasm then your writing skills need improvement. 8+)
 
Although I am somebody who understands emoticons, despite being more old fart than young Turk, I take delight in the English language. Emoticons are useful when character space is limited - not an issue on DW.

People can mis-interpret what you have written. I know because it's happened to me on here.

Emoticons aren't the answer. Clearer expression is the answer. Getting known will also help, and I like to think that I was mis-interpreted because of my relative newness around here.

Here's another useful suggestion: Don't convey in a post what you wouldn't say to a person's face.
 
I think an easier method of communicating would be to use proper grammar, Capitalize the names of songs, albums, singers names, books. I have yet to see an emoticon in the dictionary that is my guide to proper spelling and grammar. Probably why smilies and such are not supposed to be used on this forum I think if you have to use one of these, 8+) at the end of every sentence to suggest a joke or sarcasm then your writing skills need improvement. 8+)

Exactly.

It makes me think that in 10 years, forum messages will be written in nothing but text message shorthand.
 
I think sometimes people choose to misinterpret what we are trying to say; either by the spoken or written word.
The responsibility then is to ensure that you have acted innocently and appropriately yourself; review what you are trying to say, think about it, think about it from someone elses perspective, and then, if you are comfortable, post.
i dont think that smily faces and the like make a huge difference either way; as has been previously stated so succinctly, if it reads wrong to you it will read wrong to others.

Personally, text talk drives me insane, but that doesn't mean that its inappropriate for use by people.

A little empathy goes a long way....there shouldn't be a 'generation gap' on here really, we are all interested in the same thing
 
I think an easier method of communicating would be to use proper grammar, Capitalize the names of songs, albums, singers names, books. I have yet to see an emoticon in the dictionary that is my guide to proper spelling and grammar. Probably why smilies and such are not supposed to be used on this forum I think if you have to use one of these, 8+) at the end of every sentence to suggest a joke or sarcasm then your writing skills need improvement. 8+)

Absolutely this...this might be edging on a stereotype but often they can be accompanied by poor grammar and syntax and a limited vocabulary....and, oh yeah, misspellings! English( or any language for that matter) is a far less limited way of expressing yourself than emoticons.....
 
I think sometimes people choose to misinterpret what we are trying to say; either by the spoken or written word.

The responsibility then is to ensure that you have acted innocently and appropriately yourself

A little empathy goes a long way....there shouldn't be a 'generation gap' on here really, we are all interested in the same thing

I agree with you entirely. As I said before, I feel that the writer has an obligation to be clear, but I also think that the reader should adopt a default position of believing that no offence was intended, resulting (I hope) in that empathy you describe.

is that how to spell misspellings? :)......Jonny Sumo; making new friends with his dubious communication skills...

You are brightening up my day, sir! :D
 
You are brightening up my day, sir! :D
I am so pleased Magenta, I also notice that I am elevated from :) to a :D awesome!

I do have a small issue however; the young man who started this thread seemed to cause some 'offence' in another thread. I am sure that is not his intention, he sems a genuine young man (why do I need to mention his age? Is that even relevant?)

My point is; he mentions in the thread title 'elder', he implies that it is age that causes these 'communication breakdowns' (yes, I am a Zep man) and I must disagree for all the reasons that you and I have agreed upon and that others have stated - what he needs to acknowledge is experience, not age.

I spent 3 very happy years on DW before 'retiring ' myself after a number of forum issues with another, happened to be younger male, member. He was opinionated and impassioned, and quite rightly so, during a discussion about what gigs one would take for money and he was in a position where he lived with his parents etc I took exception as I had done various things in my life to just support my family, not in a musical way, and felt his opinion was less relevant.

Anyway, I now feel a little more vindicated over those exchanges as, I remember very clearly, that young man describing WFD as 'a circus which no self respecting drummer would involve themselves in' (a direct quote); I now read on here that the same young man has been a recent winner at WFD....experience of life and music and relationships, not age.

I was a little ostracised from DW as a result of these 'exchanges' and never came back...I hoped things had improved, and I think they have...but we must all be respectful, polite and empathatic..peace, sorry for ranting..J
 
I am so pleased Magenta, I also notice that I am elevated from :) to a :D awesome!

I felt it was the very least you deserved, in the circumstances.

I do have a small issue however; the young man who started this thread seemed to cause some 'offence' in another thread. I am sure that is not his intention, he sems a genuine young man (why do I need to mention his age? Is that even relevant?)

My point is; he mentions in the thread title 'elder', he implies that it is age that causes these 'communication breakdowns' (yes, I am a Zep man) and I must disagree for all the reasons that you and I have agreed upon and that others have stated - what he needs to acknowledge is experience, not age.

I reckon there definitely is a different culture between the young, from that which exists between the less young. But just as we British have to find a way of expressing ourselves in a way that will be understood by our international DW contingent - which does not mean spelling things differently, or using different words (although it can be helpful to provide translations into American sometimes!), but rather ensuring that our meaning is clear - I can't see why a younger person, especially a literate, articulate one, should have too much difficulty expressing him/herself in a way that can be understood by all other members.

Younger people may be more likely to be very informal and to use emoticons as a form of shorthand. But while this is a friendly and welcoming forum, there is an issue relating to appropriateness. I don't think it is appropriate to speak to what are, essentially, strangers in an overly informal way, and as you say, Jonny, miles on the clock are worthy of recognition, if not necessarily agreement.

If today's contributions are typical, my man, I'm glad you came back! You've had me laffing out loud today!
 
I felt it was the very least you deserved, in the circumstances.




If today's contributions are typical, my man, I'm glad you came back! You've had me laffing out loud today!
Don't tell anyone I'm back...they didn't like me before and probably won't etc...glad you're 'laffing' (presume thats the welsh spelling) Magenta; I found that, previously, many peeps took themselves much too seriously on here...not healthy, most chilled person I ever met was Thomas Lang; he wanted to talk about my cd not his career...nice bloke, sloppy drummer..:D
 
I felt it was the very least you deserved, in the circumstances.



I reckon there definitely is a different culture between the young, from that which exists between the less young. But just as we British have to find a way of expressing ourselves in a way that will be understood by our international DW contingent - which does not mean spelling things differently, or using different words (although it can be helpful to provide translations into American sometimes!), but rather ensuring that our meaning is clear - I can't see why a younger person, especially a literate, articulate one, should have too much difficulty expressing him/herself in a way that can be understood by all other members.

Younger people may be more likely to be very informal and to use emoticons as a form of shorthand. But while this is a friendly and welcoming forum, there is an issue relating to appropriateness. I don't think it is appropriate to speak to what are, essentially, strangers in an overly informal way, and as you say, Jonny, miles on the clock are worthy of recognition, if not necessarily agreement.

If today's contributions are typical, my man, I'm glad you came back! You've had me laffing out loud today!
I wish I could write like you do...'you had me at hello'....
 
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People can mis-interpret what you have written. I know because it's happened to me on here.

Emoticons aren't the answer. Clearer expression is the answer.

Agreed. While age may dictate percpetions and real-world experience, I don't think it must necessarily affect the ability to communicate. Misunderstandings occur among people - of any age - for a variety of reasons, but in a text forum like this, where there is ample opportunity to make a point clear and even go back and clarify (edit) as needed, there's no reason to not get it right the first time, or perhaps with a rewrite.

I think emoticons are fine, but not as a method to spin words or thoughts that should be obvious on their own. If I can't express a thought without having to use an emoticon, then I rethink it in order to make it clear. These things we write with seeming innocence, may last forever and show others what kind of people we are.

:)

Bermuda
 
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Agreed. While age may dictate percpetions and real-world experience, I don't think it must necessarily affect the ability to communicate. Misunderstandings occur for a variety of reasons, but in a text forum like this, where there is ample opportunity to make a point clear and even go back and clarify (edit) as needed, there's no reason to not get it right.

I think emoticons are fine, but not as a method to spin words or thoughts that should be obvious on their own.

Bermuda
and thats why Bermuda is a moderator and I am still on day release...beautifully put bro
 
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