Making very little progress..

TColumbia37

TColumbia37

Silver Member
I've been practicing rudiments lately, as I know they will be useful. I am completely self taught, and just played because it was fun, not because I thought I would ever be great at it. Well, now I'm trying to become great at it. The problem is, no matter how much I seem to practice any rudiment, nothing sticks.

I progress fairly quickly in the time that I am practicing, and am actually shocked by how much progress I make in that time. The problem is, when I come back to it the next time, it's like I'm starting completely over. Nothing has stuck.

For instance, this last time, I was focusing on left hand. Mainly practicing paradiddles and double stroke rolls, leading with the left hand, and making sure I'm playing with good technique to get the ideal amount of bounce. I progressed immensely from when I had started to when I finished. That made me confident. I came back to it a few days later, and it's like I just forgot everything.

Of course, I didn't actually forget how to. It's just that my body didn't seem to be capable of doing what my brain was telling it, even though, I had done it many times before.

This seems to be the case, no matter how many times I practice something. If it doesn't come easily to me, I try my best to work at it, but I never get any better.

I actually just saw a related thread about double bass playing.

Anyhow, tips? Am I missing something? Paying for a good teacher is a bit out of the question right now. Money is tight.
 
Well, one tip I got is that you came back to it a few days later. I think, if you want to get great, you are going to need to practice more than that. Repetitions make a lot of difference, too, so even if you don't start a practice session where you left off the last, over time you will still improve.

There's no substitute for putting in the hours, and doing it over the long haul.
 
TColumbia37 said:
I progressed immensely from when I had started to when I finished. That made me confident. I came back to it a few days later, and it's like I just forgot everything.
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So you've had a mere two sessions practising paradiddles and you haven't got them down yet. Surely this isn't a surprise? If so, I think you may be missing what this practise thing is all about entirely.

Rome wasn't built in a day mate. Neither are your paradiddles.

Keep chipping away.
 
Don't worry dude. If you practise often enough, you can accomplish anything. Just put in a few more practise sessions per week and you will see long term imrovement.
 
IDDrummer said:
Well, one tip I got is that you came back to it a few days later. I think, if you want to get great, you are going to need to practice more than that. Repetitions make a lot of difference, too, so even if you don't start a practice session where you left off the last, over time you will still improve.

There's no substitute for putting in the hours, and doing it over the long haul.
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It's not that I just practice every few days. I practice quite often, actually, just in this instance, I didn't have the time to get back to it for a couple of days.

Pocket-full-of-gold said:
So you've had a mere two sessions practising paradiddles and you haven't got them down yet. Surely this isn't a surprise? If so, I think you may be missing what this practise thing is all about entirely.

Rome wasn't built in a day mate. Neither are your paradiddles.

Keep chipping away.
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No, no, I've practiced paradiddles far more times, I was just using that specific day as an example, for it was when I started focusing more on my left hand. I've noticed a small increase in my ability to play it as normal (leading with my right hand), but it is much less than I would expect to see by now.

Anyhow, I was thinking maybe I'll set up a practice schedule and make sure to set aside a certain time every day to practice rudiments, and see how that goes. I don't really stick strictly to anything, because when I do, it almost always ends up this way (Quick improvements, then nothing) I couldn't tell you how much time I've spent practicing speed picking on guitar, over and over, to gain no real improvement. There's always a plateau, with everything I do.
 
TColumbia37 said:
There's always a plateau, with everything I do.
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Yeah for sure mate. There always is.....with absolutely everything we all do. Improvement is not linear and no-one can keep it up exponentially at the same rate. There will always be several plateau periods intwinded with periods of rapid development. That's just the way we humans function.......from an absolute beginner, right through to expert.

You've just gotta exercise the discipline to keep at it and recognise that you are still developing, even if it appears slow (or non-existant). That constant repetiton means there is no doubt that you'll be better in a month than you are now. In a year you'll be better again. In ten years.......well, you get the point. The reality is that it is a continual journey. Even the most proficient players strive to be better.......and you can be guaranteed that even they have periods where they feel as if they're not getting anywhere. In the long run though, their playing tells us that they do......so will yours. Keep sloggin' away.

There's no substitute to a one on one teacher, but if it's really out of the question then don't be afraid to check out some of the many great hand development DVD's around. Igoe's Great Hands, Pat Petrillo's Hands, Groove and Fills. Bill Bachmans vid. All great stuff designed to have you working methodically towards better control.
 
Pocket-full-of-gold said:
There's no substitute to a one on one teacher, but if it's really out of the question then don't be afraid to check out some of the many great hand development DVD's around.
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I would love to have a teacher. Even if I could afford it right now, I couldn't do it. I have awful anxiety, and get too nervous around music teachers. Which is weird, as I rarely get nervous playing shows. I guess it's the fact that they're just watching and judging. Now, I know it's for the best, and it's just to help you improve, but I get too nervous to play correctly, let alone retain any information.
 
TColumbia37 said:
I would love to have a teacher. Even if I could afford it right now, I couldn't do it. I have awful anxiety, and get too nervous around music teachers. Which is weird, as I rarely get nervous playing shows. I guess it's the fact that they're just watching and judging. Now, I know it's for the best, and it's just to help you improve, but I get too nervous to play correctly, let alone retain any information.
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Practice can help that anxiety, though. I really didn't mean my prior post as any kind of attack. It just takes a ton of practice, and there's no substitute for it. You'll get more comfortable with more practice.

And PFOG is right - we all reach plateaus. It's reality. Otherwise, we'd all be able to play a million beats a minute, until next week, when we could play a million and two beats per minute...

Focus on playing musically at whatever level you are at, and I think you'll experience less anxiety and frustration.

Hang in there.
 
TColumbia37 said:
I would love to have a teacher. Even if I could afford it right now, I couldn't do it. I have awful anxiety, and get too nervous around music teachers. Which is weird, as I rarely get nervous playing shows. I guess it's the fact that they're just watching and judging. Now, I know it's for the best, and it's just to help you improve, but I get too nervous to play correctly, let alone retain any information.
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A drum teacher's job is to instruct and help you out. A good teacher does not judge and watch their students. A good teacher will watch what you are doing and show you how to do it properly,and make you feel comfortable. You should leave a lesson feeling good. There are a lot of DVDs out there on hand technique, but without a couple of lessons you can end up more confused than ever.
 
advice: practice rudiments twice, three times, twelve times a day. Even if just for a few minutes, squeezing time. just make sure you make the most of the time.

Your body takes time to adjust to the new moves and motions going on. If you practice very hard for three weeks, say 30 hours per week (90 hours) , or 1/4 that, the benefit of those hours may not be seen for weeks or even months down the road! Physically. Remember your body adjusts slowly, and the mental/physical muscle memory (coordination, etc) doesn't happen as you practice it. The best advice is don't get ahead of yourself. I used to think the same way, but some things just take a month or two to get "masterful" with. Patience is virtue, seriously! :D

practicing every day. critical.
.
 
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TColumbia37 said:
Well, now I'm trying to become great at it. The problem is, no matter how much I seem to practice any rudiment, nothing sticks.

I progress fairly quickly in the time that I am practicing, and am actually shocked by how much progress I make in that time. The problem is, when I come back to it the next time, it's like I'm starting completely over. Nothing has stuck.
Click to expand...

Well, okay, I'm going to add something to what P-o-G said above.

There's a reason we "warm up" at the beginning of practice sessions. This is to - quite literally - get the neural pathways and muscle tissue, etc. primed and read to rock. Believe me, despite having been playing for 30 years, some days my hands are like rubber stumps when I start, especially after a couple of days off.

Second, new skills - especially in your weak hand - are going to come slowly over a course of months or years. It's not a video game and you don't get bonus points or on to the next level just because you've had a good session. I've been working on finger control and triple strokes in my left hand for a couple of years now. Just a little at a time. The other night on a gig I did something and thought, "ahhh, there it is..."

Here's some science - the key to learning and retaining new motions lies in a material called "myelin". It's like a kind of insulation that wraps around nerve endings in your brain and body the way that rubber insulates copper wire in electrical cable. The thicker the insulation, the better the signal. Myelin wrapping takes time. It seems to proceed more efficiently through slow, deliberate practice, focusing not on the end result but on fixing small errors along the way. Perfect practice makes perfect. Think of how long it probably took you to learn how to walk efficiently. If you're like most of us, it took weeks or months of stumble-filled attempts. This is the same. You have to keep plugging away.

With the philosophy out of the way, let's get to the practical: HOW are you measuring your results? Do you use a metronome to track speed? Do you use a mirror, video camera or sound recording to track changes in your playing? And HOW are you practicing? Are you simply trying to blaze away at your fastest possible speed and hoping for the best? Or are you picking a tempo at around 80% of your max and spending most of your time working on relaxation, endurance and control at that tempo? Also, put a stopwatch on when you're practicing. We're sometimes PRACTICING much less than we think. We're often playing around, mindlessly dithering or pushing past the point of clean, relaxed execution and wasting most of our time on the wrong stuff.The actual time spent working on the specific skill we're trying to build in methodical way is much less than it may appear. Be aware of your own ability to get distracted. Learn what it feels/sounds like. Tense, messy, forced repetitions won't get you where you want to go. Neither will defaulting to playing that little thing that we always play when we're up against something hard...you know the one.

Do you set out clear goals for each practice session? I.e. if you finish one session with your paradiddles as 16ths at 80 BPM, next session you go for 84 BPM. Do you set out long-term goals - i.e. "by September 1, I want to be able to play my paradiddles at 100 BPM." Again, the key is in realistic goals and in biting off small chunks at a time. Oh, and believe me, there are going to be days when you make huge jumps only to find that the next week you're back close to where you started. I think in terms of the Rule of 5. That is, out of ever 5 practice sessions, 1/5 is going to be great, 1/5 is going to be terrible and 3/5 are going to be average. You're not as good as your best days and you're not as bad as your worst, usually.

Take some time to figure out what your goals are. Make them realistic. Write them down and post them where you practice. Keep a practice log. I have a white board in front of my practice kit on which I write goals and results. Give this stuff a try, and if in 2 months you still haven't made any realistic progress, get back to us.

Oh, and eat well, sleep lots and get some sun and exercise.
 
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Boomka said:
Well, okay, I'm going to add something to what P-o-G said above.

There's a reason we "warm up" at the beginning of practice sessions. This is to - quite literally - get the neural pathways and muscle tissue, etc. primed and read to rock. Believe me, despite having been playing for 30 years, some days my hands are like rubber stumps when I start, especially after a couple of days off.

Second, new skills - especially in your weak hand - are going to come slowly over a course of months or years. It's not a video game and you don't get bonus points or on to the next level just because you've had a good session. I've been working on finger control and triple strokes in my left hand for a couple of years now. Just a little at a time. The other night on a gig I did something and thought, "ahhh, there it is..."

Here's some science - the key to learning and retaining new motions lies in a material called "myelin". It's like a kind of insulation that wraps around nerve endings in your brain and body the way that rubber insulates copper wire in electrical cable. The thicker the insulation, the better the signal. Myelin wrapping takes time. It seems to proceed more efficiently through slow, deliberate practice, focusing not on the end result but on fixing small errors along the way. Perfect practice makes perfect. Think of how long it probably took you to learn how to walk efficiently. If you're like most of us, it took weeks or months of stumble-filled attempts. This is the same. You have to keep plugging away.

With the philosophy out of the way, let's get to the practical: HOW are you measuring your results? Do you use a metronome to track speed? Do you use a mirror, video camera or sound recording to track changes in your playing? And HOW are you practicing? Are you simply trying to blaze away at your fastest possible speed and hoping for the best? Or are you picking a tempo at around 80% of your max and spending most of your time working on relaxation, endurance and control at that tempo? Also, put a stopwatch on when you're practicing. We're sometimes PRACTICING much less than we think. We're often playing around, mindlessly dithering or pushing past the point of clean, relaxed execution and wasting most of our time on the wrong stuff.The actual time spent working on the specific skill we're trying to build in methodical way is much less than it may appear. Be aware of your own ability to get distracted. Learn what it feels/sounds like. Tense, messy, forced repetitions won't get you where you want to go. Neither will defaulting to playing that little thing that we always play when we're up against something hard...you know the one.

Do you set out clear goals for each practice session? I.e. if you finish one session with your paradiddles as 16ths at 80 BPM, next session you go for 84 BPM. Do you set out long-term goals - i.e. "by September 1, I want to be able to play my paradiddles at 100 BPM." Again, the key is in realistic goals and in biting off small chunks at a time. Oh, and believe me, there are going to be days when you make huge jumps only to find that the next week you're back close to where you started. I think in terms of the Rule of 5. That is, out of ever 5 practice sessions, 1/5 is going to be great, 1/5 is going to be terrible and 3/5 are going to be average. You're not as good as your best days and you're not as bad as your worst, usually.

Take some time to figure out what your goals are. Make them realistic. Write them down and post them where you practice. Keep a practice log. I have a white board in front of my practice kit on which I write goals and results. Give this stuff a try, and if in 2 months you still haven't made any realistic progress, get back to us.

Oh, and eat well, sleep lots and get some sun and exercise.
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This all makes tons of sense. I plan to have a practice schedule very soon. My kit isn't together, right now, so I've been playing on a practice pad. But my lugs should be here tomorrow, and I'll be able to use playing on the full kit as a sort of incentive. I figure, I make sure that, whenever I want to go play drums, I practice rudiments on the pad for a period of time before I'm allowed to have my fun on the full kit.

I almost always practice to a mentronome. I would love to practice in front of a mirror, but I don't have an extra. I'll have to pick one up next time I'm at the store.

On the subject of HOW I practice: I usually start practice at a comfortable speed, paying attention to my technique, and staying relaxed. Then, I gradually increase the speed, and sort of 'max out' my abilities, until I can't play any faster, and then go back down to just above my starting 'comfort speed', and finish out with that.

Sometimes, I go back and forth between my comfortable speed, and my max speed. I used to be a health nut, and use a sort of 'high intensity interval training' to see if it can help as much in other aspects of improvement as it can in a workout situation. I don't do this very often, however.
 
TColumbia37 said:
I've been practicing rudiments lately, as I know they will be useful. I am completely self taught, and just played because it was fun, not because I thought I would ever be great at it. Well, now I'm trying to become great at it. The problem is, no matter how much I seem to practice any rudiment, nothing sticks.

I progress fairly quickly in the time that I am practicing, and am actually shocked by how much progress I make in that time. The problem is, when I come back to it the next time, it's like I'm starting completely over. Nothing has stuck.

For instance, this last time, I was focusing on left hand. Mainly practicing paradiddles and double stroke rolls, leading with the left hand, and making sure I'm playing with good technique to get the ideal amount of bounce. I progressed immensely from when I had started to when I finished. That made me confident. I came back to it a few days later, and it's like I just forgot everything.

Of course, I didn't actually forget how to. It's just that my body didn't seem to be capable of doing what my brain was telling it, even though, I had done it many times before.

This seems to be the case, no matter how many times I practice something. If it doesn't come easily to me, I try my best to work at it, but I never get any better.

I actually just saw a related thread about double bass playing.

Anyhow, tips? Am I missing something? Paying for a good teacher is a bit out of the question right now. Money is tight.
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Make a routine and do them EVERY DAY for a year. Still no progress? Then you can complain.

I'm exaggurating a little, but depending on how you look at it, not really.


You want seriously good doubles? Expect it to take years. In fact, a lifetime, as they can always get better and require maintenance. Just like any other skill in any other field.
 
You can't afford not to have a teacher.

Money being tight is a frequent problem. But it's not an excuse for not getting a teacher. Neither is anxiety about playing around a teacher. It doesn't mean that you won't necessarily be anxious around a teacher, you just force yourself to go through your playing if that happens. A teacher won't be around most of the time you're playing, so if you can do something in front of them, it will be that much easier in front of a crowd or in a band. Like you, I'm periodically nervous in front of a former teacher or one drumming judge. It has less to do with the teacher than my own irrational self consciousness. But I just suck it up and play through. And like you, playing in front of large crowds is like playing in my living room.

Squirrel away a tiny bit of money every day. Do it without fail. Even if it's just one or two dollars. Once you've saved up enough for a few lessons, approach a teacher you respect and tell them your situation. They may be very receptive to working out some kind of deal. Maybe you could do yard work for them or something that involves some of your time, especially if you can't afford to pay every week or two. If you show you're serious or sincere to a good teacher, it will go a long way.

In return, you'll get skills and tips for making better use of your practice time. You'll be able to spend your time more productively and this will spill over to other areas of your life.

And a real good teacher will help you through dark times, help you put your goals in perspective, push you to go past limits you thought you had, expose your false expectations, teach you to be patient and redirect you if you get in a rut.
 
JohnW said:
You can't afford not to have a teacher.

Money being tight is a frequent problem. But it's not an excuse for not getting a teacher. Neither is anxiety about playing around a teacher. It doesn't mean that you won't necessarily be anxious around a teacher, you just force yourself to go through your playing if that happens. A teacher won't be around most of the time you're playing, so if you can do something in front of them, it will be that much easier in front of a crowd or in a band. Like you, I'm periodically nervous in front of a former teacher or one drumming judge. It has less to do with the teacher than my own irrational self consciousness. But I just suck it up and play through. And like you, playing in front of large crowds is like playing in my living room.

Squirrel away a tiny bit of money every day. Do it without fail. Even if it's just one or two dollars. Once you've saved up enough for a few lessons, approach a teacher you respect and tell them your situation. They may be very receptive to working out some kind of deal. Maybe you could do yard work for them or something that involves some of your time, especially if you can't afford to pay every week or two. If you show you're serious or sincere to a good teacher, it will go a long way.

In return, you'll get skills and tips for making better use of your practice time. You'll be able to spend your time more productively and this will spill over to other areas of your life.

And a real good teacher will help you through dark times, help you put your goals in perspective, push you to go past limits you thought you had, expose your false expectations, teach you to be patient and redirect you if you get in a rut.
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The best I can do right now, is a friend of mine, who has been, coincidentally, filling in on drums for my band, as we recently parted with our drummer. He is, considered by many, to be one of the best drummers in the area (among the active ones, that is), and is trying to get into giving lessons. While he isn't a formal teacher, I know that he would charge me very little, if anything at all. Other than that, my extra money has to go towards buying a PA, as the one we were using belonged to our old drummer.
 
TColumbia37 said:
The best I can do right now, is a friend of mine, who has been, coincidentally, filling in on drums for my band, as we recently parted with our drummer. He is, considered by many, to be one of the best drummers in the area (among the active ones, that is), and is trying to get into giving lessons. While he isn't a formal teacher, I know that he would charge me very little, if anything at all. Other than that, my extra money has to go towards buying a PA, as the one we were using belonged to our old drummer.
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Then I guess I would ask myself, "Do I want to just get by?...or do I want to get to that next level of playing?"

I'm not talking necessarily about your friend, though it could be him. And I'm definitely not talking about the short to mid term expense of buying a PA. Think of a long term strategy needed to get a deep foundation for your technique.

You said:

"I've been practicing rudiments lately, as I know they will be useful. I am completely self taught, and just played because it was fun, not because I thought I would ever be great at it. Well, now I'm trying to become great at it. The problem is, no matter how much I seem to practice any rudiment, nothing sticks."

Now you've released the genie! Something inside you craves excellence in your playing.

So re-read your last post and see if any of that will get you to your new goal?
 
As everyone else has said, keep practicing, it will come.

If you want to speed up the control (and eventual progress) of your weak hand (left I'm guessing), start doing EVERYTHING with your left hand. Eating, brushing your teeth, petting your dog or cat, tying your shoes, writing (most difficult one for me), typing, picking your nose, you get the idea. The more comfortable you get using your hands ambidextrously, the easier your sticking will become.

I was told this on day one when I took lessons, right after how to correctly hold the sticks to avoid CTS. It helped phenomenally.
 
Like others have stated, learning is never linear. Plateaus happen with nearly everything in life. My jujitsu instructor is one of the top 10 all time greatest competitors in the world. Even he, who had alot of natural talent, experienced the same plateaus and frustrations that we all deal with. I bring this example to these boards because there are many frustrations in jujitsu as well as in drums. He recently gave a motivational speech to the class.

Persistence pays off. Usually when you break through a plateau with persistence, you experience a dramatic increase in skills then hit yet another plateau
 
Maybe all I needed was for you guys to tell me to stop being a sissy and keep working at it. I will be sure to do that.

Thanks for all the input!
 
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