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  #41  
Old 09-17-2018, 03:57 AM
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Default Re: Musician vs Artist

When I hear the term artist, I equate it with a painter or a sculpture carving person, not a musician. Musician is a term I am comfortable with. It's more accurate. The term artist is kind of vague IMO.
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  #42  
Old 09-17-2018, 04:10 AM
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Default Re: Musician vs Artist

In my opinion there is also some, unclear, undefined, sort of feeling why someone is a musician or an artist..If artist means 'creating Art' that is..

Like, if we say artist or not regarding drummers, my feeling would go a little like this..:

Brian Blade - yes, Dave Weckl - no

Billy Martin - yes, Thomas Lang - no

Jim Keltner - yes, Taylor Hawkins - no


Like, Weckl is an amazing player, really amazing, but, for some reason i am not feeling his playing as being Art..Not in the way like thats with Brian Blade the case..Or Jeff Hamilton..Or Glenn Kotche..Or Cindy Blackman..etc..

Maybe other people will have the exact opposite feeling regarding the drummers i mentioned, thats why i can also not give any other argumentation then just a feeling..

Difficult subject..
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  #43  
Old 09-17-2018, 04:19 AM
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Default Re: Musician vs Artist

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Originally Posted by larryace View Post
When I hear the term artist, I equate it with a painter or a sculpture carving person, not a musician. Musician is a term I am comfortable with. It's more accurate. The term artist is kind of vague IMO.
Vague indeed.
When I hear the term, I always think of the old time waster - "What is art?"
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  #44  
Old 09-17-2018, 04:29 AM
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Default Re: Musician vs Artist

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Originally Posted by wildbill View Post
..When I hear the term, I always think of the old time waster - "What is art?"..

Maybe 'the deeper layer', whatever that is..

But, just as an example, there really is a difference between a little child throwing some paint and Pollock..
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  #45  
Old 09-17-2018, 05:54 AM
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Default Re: Musician vs Artist

As long as everyone stops referring to Kanye West as a genius, I'll be okay.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Vn2xrSG24w
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  #46  
Old 09-17-2018, 06:03 AM
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Default Re: Musician vs Artist

Art isn't how you do it but what is created. So musicians, song writers, singers, painters, sculptors, photographers, writers, etc, etc. can "create" art-some more often than others. You can't deny the beauty of song, music, ballet, a movie, etc. photography isn't made by hand like other art forms (painting or sculpture) but it's still art. It's what captivates and speaks to you -beauty isn't just to they eye of the beholder-it's to the ear too. An "Artist" just doesn't paint or draw-it's visual art and sometimes aural art is added to it. Creating something that speaks to people visually or aurally is art as far as I'm concerned-it doesn't have to be great art. That's a whole other category-much like the POP music thread LOL. You keep making your art and other people will call it what it is-but even great artist made some crap, some mediocre, some ok, some great, some greater, and then some of their greatest "art". No hitter always hits a homer.
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  #47  
Old 09-17-2018, 06:15 AM
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Default Re: Musician vs Artist

Musician, Artist, or Drummer?

https://youtu.be/TnzFRV1LwIo?t=29

Last edited by wildbill; 09-17-2018 at 09:02 PM.
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  #48  
Old 09-17-2018, 07:05 AM
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Default Re: Musician vs Artist

Quote:
Originally Posted by drumming sort of person View Post
..As long as everyone stops referring to Kanye West as a genius, I'll be okay..

And to give that statement a little extra 'power' you needed that video..?

I am not offended btw, just had to yawn a little..
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  #49  
Old 09-17-2018, 09:58 AM
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Default Re: Musician vs Artist

When I go to the NAMM show and Pearl puts on my ID badge "Artist" - that's about all the props I get about what I do for the year. Now you want to take away my thunder?

I'm like Chevy Chase in that old SNL skit when they made fun of Star Trek: I'm KEEPING my EARS!

Hahahahaha!
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  #50  
Old 09-17-2018, 02:02 PM
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Default Re: Musician vs Artist

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldskoolsoul View Post
In my opinion there is also some, unclear, undefined, sort of feeling why someone is a musician or an artist..If artist means 'creating Art' that is..

Like, if we say artist or not regarding drummers, my feeling would go a little like this..:

Brian Blade - yes, Dave Weckl - no

Billy Martin - yes, Thomas Lang - no

Jim Keltner - yes, Taylor Hawkins - no


Like, Weckl is an amazing player, really amazing, but, for some reason i am not feeling his playing as being Art..Not in the way like thats with Brian Blade the case..Or Jeff Hamilton..Or Glenn Kotche..Or Cindy Blackman..etc..

Maybe other people will have the exact opposite feeling regarding the drummers i mentioned, thats why i can also not give any other argumentation then just a feeling..

Difficult subject..
OSS, I like how you're making your points from a position of personal sentiment and being completely honest and modest about it. Just like in that other thread.

I'll say that your heart's in the right place.
We might not always agree (other thread again) but this time I immediately get what you're saying. Blade/Weckl? I feel the same way you do!
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  #51  
Old 09-17-2018, 02:14 PM
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Default Re: Musician vs Artist

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Almeyda View Post
Way too much thinking going on here for my taste...

Worry about being a great drummer first then worry about what people say about you.

If I'd asked Joe Morello whether he was an artist or musician he would have laughed in my face. He'd probably have answered: "Swing first and then we'll talk".

Seriously, no drummer that any of us admire ever gave a moment's thought to this.
I guess this is reflective of Tony's earlier post, creating and moving on to the next thing and leaving others to start debating about what was just created.

It's the nature of a forum that all kinds of debate will be stimulated. To a degree it's talking about things rather than doing them.
Very cerebral and perhaps occasionally over-selfconcious and a tad overly analytical. But if art is to stimulate, then it's clear that we've all been stimulated enough to have this kind of discussion. I'd prefer that than if everyone was completely ambivalent and disinterested in these things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo Eder View Post
When I go to the NAMM show and Pearl puts on my ID badge "Artist" - that's about all the props I get about what I do for the year. Now you want to take away my thunder?

I'm like Chevy Chase in that old SNL skit when they made fun of Star Trek: I'm KEEPING my EARS!

Hahahahaha!
And here's just the post to lighten the mood.

Quick, will someone grab those ears from Bo before he makes a fool of himself at NAMM?
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  #52  
Old 09-17-2018, 02:18 PM
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Default Re: Musician vs Artist

Quote:
Originally Posted by opentune View Post
Haha, Hopefully you're joking. Try hurling a ball at 95 mph for 50 pitches or more, or hitting said ball with a 4 inch wide wood stick for over 400 feet.
Perhaps you mean billiards are a game.

It is indeed slow on the boards today.
Almost any athlete will tell you hitting a baseball on a professional level is one of, if not the hardest thing to do in sports.
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  #53  
Old 09-17-2018, 03:41 PM
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Default Re: Musician vs Artist

despite the actual definitions posted elsewhere in this thread, I've always thought that artists create art, and musicians create music.

I'd never in my life heard a musician referred to as an artist, until they started calling every singer on American Idol an 'Artist' which to this day makes me alternate between extreme annoyance and hysterical laughter. They seem to only attach it to vocalists, no one else in the band are ever spoken of as artists, except I remember bands sometimes being called 'Recording Artists' back in the day.
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  #54  
Old 09-17-2018, 04:23 PM
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Default Re: Musician vs Artist

Well lets get some perspective because Art is visual and auditory.
"Art is a diverse range of human activities in creating visual, auditory or performing artifacts (artworks), expressing the author's imaginative, conceptual idea, or technical skill, intended to be appreciated for their beauty or emotional power.[1][2] In their most general form these activities include the production of works of art, the criticism of art, the study of the history of art, and the aesthetic dissemination of art.

Music, theatre, film, dance, and other performing arts, as well as literature and other media such as interactive media, are included in a broader definition of art or the arts.[1][3] Until the 17th century, art referred to any skill or mastery and was not differentiated from crafts or sciences. In modern usage after the 17th century, where aesthetic considerations are paramount, the fine arts are separated and distinguished from acquired skills in general, such as the decorative or applied arts.

Though the definition of what constitutes art is disputed[4][5][6] and has changed over time, general descriptions mention an idea of imaginative or technical skill stemming from human agency[7] and creation.[8] The nature of art and related concepts, such as creativity and interpretation, are explored in a branch of philosophy known as aesthetics.[9]
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  #55  
Old 09-17-2018, 04:56 PM
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Default Re: Musician vs Artist

There are musicians and artists, much like their are painters and artists.

A guy who paints the walls inside your house calls himself a painter. I think a drummer who plays cover band gigs should call himself a musician.

I write my own parts in my bands songs and I call myself a drummer or musician. If someone calls me an artist so be it. I feel that term should be given to someone rather than them claim it.

A person creating a painting of something beautiful etc has to be called an artist or they will be tossed into the same group as the guy painting a white wall in a house. There are many drummers who I could consider artists with very unique styles that you can pick out from a short audio sample. If your playing stands out, is different, creative, and paints a picture with audio. That is art. Playing a rock beat in a song is different. (IN MY OPINION)

I feel most drummers whom I consider artists can play a solo that tells a story. once again. creating something. Blazing chops alone is just moving rudiments around. That would be like tracing lines on a page which isn't really art to me.


Same goes for guitar vocals or whatever you want. Are you creating something beautiful that can emotionally move people and make them feel a certain way? That to me is art. If your "playing a song" or just doing your job as a band member, you are a musician.

also. this has nothing to do with skill. You can be an excellent musician, and a terrible artist. You can be an excellent artist and a terrible musician. You can also be both or none.

How do you practice, do you shoot for speed, clarity, precision, timing etc. Or are you the kind of person that looks to get new sounds, textures, and ideas out of your kit. That's a great way to tell for yourself.
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  #56  
Old 09-17-2018, 05:43 PM
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Default Re: Musician vs Artist

Art? or not?

https://youtu.be/L6EUumSji78?t=6
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  #57  
Old 09-17-2018, 05:51 PM
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Default Re: Musician vs Artist

I'd go as far as to say we're "artists" as long as we're creating the drum part used in the song from scratch. Now...we all shamelessly steal from the greats in terms of form and technique, but as far as how the drum part is structured, that's all us.
You have to have some form of artistic ability to pull that off and IMO, that puts us in the "artist" classification.
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  #58  
Old 09-17-2018, 06:32 PM
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Default Re: Musician vs Artist

I like to use the term artist for someone creates original, finished artworks, including painters, choreographer/dancers, singer/songwriters. A person who conceives the idea and also makes the finished product.

I use the term craftsman for someone who accurately reproduces something many times, including pottery, furniture, orchestral musicians, cover band musicians, etc.
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  #59  
Old 09-17-2018, 06:46 PM
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Default Re: Musician vs Artist

Quote:
Originally Posted by GetAgrippa View Post
Well lets get some perspective because Art is visual and auditory.
"Art is a diverse range of human activities in creating visual, auditory or performing artifacts (artworks), expressing the author's imaginative, conceptual idea, or technical skill, intended to be appreciated for their beauty or emotional power.[1][2] In their most general form these activities include the production of works of art, the criticism of art, the study of the history of art, and the aesthetic dissemination of art.

Music, theatre, film, dance, and other performing arts, as well as literature and other media such as interactive media, are included in a broader definition of art or the arts.[1][3] Until the 17th century, art referred to any skill or mastery and was not differentiated from crafts or sciences. In modern usage after the 17th century, where aesthetic considerations are paramount, the fine arts are separated and distinguished from acquired skills in general, such as the decorative or applied arts.

Though the definition of what constitutes art is disputed[4][5][6] and has changed over time, general descriptions mention an idea of imaginative or technical skill stemming from human agency[7] and creation.[8] The nature of art and related concepts, such as creativity and interpretation, are explored in a branch of philosophy known as aesthetics.[9]
To quote Mr Spock "Fascinating".
But where did you quote it from? Just curious because it's fantastically written.

(And you know how much I like making the most intricate literary contributions to threads ! Makes up for my lack of drumming skills...) :)
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  #60  
Old 09-17-2018, 07:39 PM
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Default Re: Musician vs Artist

Well it's Wikipedia Mike Stand, which I know many people diss (I have a love hate relationship going with it-I don't bother to edit or post anymore.) but it just depends on article-this one looks pretty good as far resources. There are some great grammar police on Wikipedia-for science articles they often need some tweaking being strong on content but poorly written to communicate that content ;)
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  #61  
Old 09-17-2018, 09:20 PM
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Default Re: Musician vs Artist

Quote:
Originally Posted by GetAgrippa View Post
Well lets get some perspective because Art is visual and auditory.
"Art is a diverse range of human activities ....."
Well, I'm not going to edit wiki, but there's a lot I disagree with just in that little snippet.

To me, art is not an activity, but can be the result of an activity.
It can be solid, as in a painting or sculpture, or ephemeral, as in dance, or a music performance.
I also think it's a bit presumptuous to claim it as the exclusive province of humans.

But I'm not in charge of making definitions, so have at it - LOL
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  #62  
Old 09-17-2018, 09:28 PM
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Default Re: Musician vs Artist

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morrisman View Post
I like to use the term artist for someone creates original, finished artworks, including painters, choreographer/dancers, singer/songwriters. A person who conceives the idea and also makes the finished product.

I use the term craftsman for someone who accurately reproduces something many times, including pottery, furniture, orchestral musicians, cover band musicians, etc.
Sums it up nicely for me.

For my money, Dylan, Bowie, Lou Reed, Tom Waits, Bruce Springsteen, Miles Davis etc. cross the line from musician to artist IMO.
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  #63  
Old 09-17-2018, 09:48 PM
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Default Re: Musician vs Artist

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morrisman View Post
I like to use the term artist for someone creates original, finished artworks, including painters, choreographer/dancers, singer/songwriters. A person who conceives the idea and also makes the finished product.

I use the term craftsman for someone who accurately reproduces something many times, including pottery, furniture, orchestral musicians, cover band musicians, etc.

Ya - I'd amend my previous craftsman remark.
In regards to drumming, the craft is the practice - burning the neural brain pathways through repetition.
The art is the weaving together of those pathways through improvisation, or being 'in the zone'.
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