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Old 03-17-2019, 04:56 AM
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Default extended snare ,snare drums?

What ever happened to all the extended snare ,snare drums?
fibes ,Ludwig,Tama ,Pearl ,Slingerland all had these types of snares.

Now as far as I can tell ,there's not a modern snare (not counting marching snares)that fits the bill.
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Old 03-17-2019, 05:02 AM
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Default Re: extended snare ,snare drums?

by extended do you mean deep?

Probably low market demand currently.
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Old 03-17-2019, 05:15 AM
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Default Re: extended snare ,snare drums?

I think he means snare drums like the Ludwig "super sensitive" drums. The kind where the snare wires extend slightly beyond the bearing edge.

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Old 03-17-2019, 05:19 AM
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Default Re: extended snare ,snare drums?

You mean the parallel throwoff, like Ludwig's Super-Sensitive. The demand for them is apparently gone. Ludwig was probably the holdout, last offering the SS in the 2011 catalog.

I have 7 Ludwig Super-Sensitives (!) and 3 Impact snares that use the Tama-style parallel throw & long wires, and they all sound great. Maybe drummers didn't like having to be careful with the extended hardware, and getting square cases to carry them?

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Old 03-17-2019, 05:28 AM
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Default Re: extended snare ,snare drums?

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Originally Posted by bermuda View Post
Maybe drummers didn't like having to be careful with the extended hardware, and getting square cases to carry them?
That's gotta be the reason. They won't fit in all cases, and the mechanism is more susceptible to damage because it hangs out so far.

It also costs more too. More hardware, more money. I guess the sound difference (if there is one) wasn't enough to justify the extra cost.

Bermuda, in your opinion do Super-Sensitives sound more sensitive than regular snares?
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Old 03-17-2019, 06:19 AM
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Default Re: extended snare ,snare drums?

I have a SonorLite snare with extended wires.
There's a difficulty finding replacement snares.
The snares go beyond the edges.
I wanted a new set of Sonor wires. I had to pay $80 US for them.
I'm sure I could have found another set cheaper, but snare wire companies don't say the length of the wires, they only say what drum size it's for, so wires for a 15" snare might not be long enough.

One of the advantages, not including the sensitivity, is the snares can be set slower when playing a back beat, due to the length of the wires. Not looser, slower.
It acts a little like a gated delay.

My drum is not complicated. I purposely didn't get the fancy parallel contraption version.
That may be one of the reasons why they didn't catch on or last. Drummers and builders are conservatives.
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Old 03-17-2019, 06:53 AM
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Default Re: extended snare ,snare drums?

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Originally Posted by IBitePrettyHard View Post
Bermuda, in your opinion do Super-Sensitives sound more sensitive than regular snares?
There's a difference based on the amount of wires that touch the bottom head. Standard wires touch about 90% of the head, while extended wires make 100% contact, stretching across the head edge to edge; that extra 10% is where the harmonics occur.

I'm sure it's measurable with a scope, and perhaps a trained ear would hear the difference with the right heads, the right room, the right sticks, and the right touch. But playing 2 & 4 in a rock band? Nah.

The SS drums sound great, but so do standard snares. I think drummers eventually figured out that the extra care (and cost of wires) wasn't really worth any sonic benefit they might hear.

BTW, here's a sweet 1971 "cut badge" brass SS I just nabbed. It's almost pristine, VERY rare, and sounds wonderful!

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Old 03-17-2019, 01:05 PM
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Default Re: extended snare ,snare drums?

My high school band had a SS Supra as the main snare, and I always felt it was easier to get a really seamless buzz roll out of it.

Other than that, I never noticed a difference. Loved playing the drum, though. That snare sound will always have a unique place in my psyche, probably partly because Supras were used so much on recordings back in the day
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Old 03-17-2019, 02:21 PM
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Default Re: extended snare ,snare drums?

Is the Ludwig SS adjustable for snare height?
Can the snares be made very tight, but just touching the head?
I haven't heard one in many years, but I remember it being very crisp and light.
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Old 03-17-2019, 03:28 PM
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Default Re: extended snare ,snare drums?

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Is the Ludwig SS adjustable for snare height?
Can the snares be made very tight, but just touching the head?
You could, but it's a delicate adjustment. The lever mechanism wasn't designed for a minute height change, and might not stay put for long. Also, wires are coiled (read: a spring) and wont become completely tight. And if they did, you'd erase any sensitivity gained by the system (think about how tight cable or gut wires respond to a light touch.)

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Old 03-17-2019, 04:49 PM
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  #11  
Old 03-17-2019, 05:52 PM
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Default Re: extended snare ,snare drums?

I could never get on board with the extended snare thing. A pretty important thing in my book...conventional snare systems can exert pressure on the bottom resonant head, that offers you a range of different sounds. The SS mechanisms can't put that kind of pressure on the reso head. (the wires would bow) I like some pressure on my bottom head, sometimes a lot, so SS's are out for me. I never cared for the snare response the SS drums make. I had a 79 SS that I got for 100 at Sam Ash in like 2005. I eventually converted it to a non SS, I used a P-85...Wow what a positive sonic difference that made. I forget who has that drum now.
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Old 03-17-2019, 10:21 PM
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Default Re: extended snare ,snare drums?

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Originally Posted by larryace View Post
I could never get on board with the extended snare thing. A pretty important thing in my book...conventional snare systems can exert pressure on the bottom resonant head, that offers you a range of different sounds. The SS mechanisms can't put that kind of pressure on the reso head. (the wires would bow) I like some pressure on my bottom head, sometimes a lot, so SS's are out for me. I never cared for the snare response the SS drums make. I had a 79 SS that I got for 100 at Sam Ash in like 2005. I eventually converted it to a non SS, I used a P-85...Wow what a positive sonic difference that made. I forget who has that drum now.
Extended snares give you a fuller dynamic response from ppp to fff without choking.
And there are fewer dead spots vs conventional snare drums.
Buzz rolls are cleaner at all dynamic levels too.

I find extended snare mechanisms let you show off your subtle nuanced chops when needed.
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Old 03-18-2019, 03:18 AM
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Default Re: extended snare ,snare drums?

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Originally Posted by Push pull stroke View Post
My high school band had a SS Supra as the main snare, and I always felt it was easier to get a really seamless buzz roll out of it.

Other than that, I never noticed a difference.
One benefit of the Super Sensitive throw-off is the ease in replacing snare wires. No need to thread strings/cables/straps and make sure you have the wires set perfectly straight/square. You just place the wires into the assembly and you're done.

As for the sound, they're spectacular. You can have the wires flat against the head with any tension at all. I really hope they bring them back.
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Old 03-18-2019, 07:51 PM
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Default Re: extended snare ,snare drums?

I recently bought a well beaten Tama King Beat 5 x 14 with parallel throw-off, and I admit I bought it simply because it was extremely cheap (63 CHF, i.e. about 63 USD!) and because of the die cast hoops it came with. It cleaned up quite well and its build quality is excellent. That said, I am still struggling with tuning issues, and in particular with wire tension: I do not like wires to be too tight, but with that parallel throw-off wires get too loose as quick as you release them a little bit (they can be tighten on both sides).
As others pointed out above, it can be quite difficult to find the right case for these snare drums, and additionally wires can reveal to be hard to find: that's probably why parallel throw-offs are not that common anymore.
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Old 03-18-2019, 11:05 PM
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Default Re: extended snare ,snare drums?

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As others pointed out above, it can be quite difficult to find the right case for these snare drums, and additionally wires can reveal to be hard to find...
Any square case should work - Humes & Berg, SKB, Gator are all around US$100, and there are various fiber cases that probably cost less.

Original wires shouldn't be too hard to find. Obviously check with a Tama dealer to see if the wires are still in their catalog. Or if there's a drum shop or music store that's been in business a long time, they may still have some pf the originals in stock. It may even be worth checking with some shops in the USA: Professional Drum Shop in Los Angeles, Dale's in Harrisburg (Pennsylvania,) Memphis Drum Shop in Memphis, and Fork's in Nashville have been around a while. (PureSound offers their version of some of the older wires, but I didn't see the Tama wires on their site.)

I have some Impact snares that use a direct copy of the Tama throw-off, and although Impact hasn't made drums in about 15 years, they might have some spare wires around. They're at http://www.impactind.com/ and the owner is Rob Erickson. I think the Snappy wires is what they used.

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Old 03-19-2019, 12:18 AM
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  #16  
Old 03-19-2019, 02:34 AM
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Default Re: extended snare ,snare drums?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sacco View Post
I recently bought a well beaten Tama King Beat 5 x 14 with parallel throw-off, and I admit I bought it simply because it was extremely cheap (63 CHF, i.e. about 63 USD!) and because of the die cast hoops it came with. It cleaned up quite well and its build quality is excellent. That said, I am still struggling with tuning issues, and in particular with wire tension: I do not like wires to be too tight, but with that parallel throw-off wires get too loose as quick as you release them a little bit (they can be tighten on both sides).
As others pointed out above, it can be quite difficult to find the right case for these snare drums, and additionally wires can reveal to be hard to find: that's probably why parallel throw-offs are not that common anymore.
I was never a big fan of that throw.
The Imperialstar Mastercraft version of that snare with the extended roller bars was a much better ,less tweaky throw.
The Kingbeat was a more expensive version of the that snare ,but the Mastercraft used sells for more these days.
I love the one piece spun steel shell of those drums.
That's another thing that's been discontinued I miss too.
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Old 03-19-2019, 05:02 AM
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Default Re: extended snare ,snare drums?

Great snare!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Yamaha-SD-0...item2ac171368b
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Old 03-19-2019, 05:22 AM
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Default Re: extended snare ,snare drums?

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I owned one and started a thread here entitled worst sounding expensive snare you've ever owned.

http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/s...=146233&page=3
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Old 03-19-2019, 08:19 PM
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Default Re: extended snare ,snare drums?

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Originally Posted by bermuda View Post
Any square case should work - Humes & Berg, SKB, Gator are all around US$100, and there are various fiber cases that probably cost [...]

Bermuda
Thanks for these infos Bermuda, much appreciated!
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Old 03-20-2019, 04:56 AM
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Default Re: extended snare ,snare drums?

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I owned one and started a thread here entitled worst sounding expensive snare you've ever owned.

http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/s...=146233&page=3
I had the 5.5 birch as on ebay never had a problem with tuning or buzz etc! Was a great sounding drum,with a great pop when tuned high!
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Old 03-20-2019, 07:32 AM
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Default Re: extended snare ,snare drums?

The original free floaters were extended snares. They're some of the best snares that I've played. The spring loaded snare tension bars did a great job of maintaining the snares contact with the snare head. Those snare strands are still available through Gibraltar. They're worth a look!
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