PA systems for singers

evolving_machine

Silver Member
I know I saw this topic before. I apologize, but I was unable to find the previous thread on this topic.

As a drummer in a band, I have to invest money into my gear. All of you know the cost of pedals, heads, drums, cymbals and sticks.

But why is it that after all the years I have been playing in bands, I rarely find a singer/ vocalist who has their own PA system.

I get to practice a half hour early, to unload my car, and set up my drums, to be ready to play the time when practice was to start. A half hour later the vocalists show up and without even a microphone, are expected that everything should be ready for them.

The guitar play’s invest money in guitars, amps, and guitar picks. Bass player’s, also spend money on their bass, and their amps. The keyboard, and horn players also have their instruments.

Why is it so common for a vocalist to not have a PA system?
 
Because decent entertaining lead vocalists are rare enough that they can do what they want.
That's part of it I think, but also that band vocalists tend to go through a PA that's suitable for the whole band, rather than a small dedicated vocal PA.

Our vocalist has his own PA, but it's only suitable as a solo entertainer style setup, or with a band playing at low volume & without reinforcement. He also has his own monitors, mic's, stands, leads, etc.
 
Ive personally never played with a singer who didnt buy his own PA.

Even the singer i have now, went and got a 2 speaker PA system with his own stand/mixer and a 50' cable snake when we got together. After we played for a bit and guys dropped some $ on gear we all kinda decided we needed (plus im always tossing a few bucks at my kit) he went out and bought 2 more bigger speakers and a nice line 6 wireless mic. Now we can set up a monitor by the drums for the odd gig that needs it and at full volume at practice we have vocals we all can hear.

Ive always made sure that any band im in is a "Must have own gear" type situation. That way everyone has responsibility and nobody ends up ponying more cash up for gear other people are gonna use.
 
I made a joke about this last night with our singer.

We finished rehearsal at 22:39.

At 22:40 she left.

The rest (keys/drums and bass) left at 23:15

It really is totally inbalanced. I've never seen a singer turn up with a PA, but when you think about it, if you were serious about cutting through and having a decent sound they should have their own gear.

Grrrr

Davo
 
I'd like to join in on the rant about singers. My biggest rant is that too many singers don't understand that a soloist has to build a solo, and sometimes this can take 2 or more progressions of the song form to accomplish. So many times where a guitarist is ramping up their solo, building intensity, and planning on taking at least one more progression, you can clearly hear that they have more to say, and they get cut off by the singer, mid sentence as it were. This happens so much in my world. Can't they hear that the soloist wasn't done yet? It's funny for about 5 minutes then it gets way old. This one singer I know, she butchers the lyrics so bad...I felt compelled to set her straight on a particularly glaring line that sounded plain stupid. It was the best line of the song, the pinnacle of the lyric, and what she sang was laughable. Oh she thanked me up and down, agreed that the right line was infinitely better than the hack line she was singing...But it never stuck. You can lead a horse to water....She is lame though, knows nothing of song form really, and really should know more being in the position she's in. She knows even less about PA systems, and feedback. You can't point your mic at the monitor, duh!

I know another singer who can't even tell when a progression is up, he resumes the singing on the wrong chord of the song form, cutting off the soloist and forcing the bass player to jump to the chord he's on. No clue. These people need to be called out on their shortcomings, they screw up the rest of the band.

And yea, the PA should absolutely be their responsibility and they should be held accountable for it. I think they are coddled too much. They get all the attention with virtually none of the work, not even close to an equitable distribution IMO. I don't put any one part over another part of the music. Everybody needs to pull their weight.
 
If the singer is the only one utilizing the PA, then I agree. More often than not, however, all of the other musicians use it as well. If you divided the cost of the PA among the band members, based on how many channels each member used, the lead vocalist would probably come out paying the least, since they often don't play an instrument while they sing. I've always thought of the PA as the band's collective responsibility. I own a PA, though, and if I join/gig with a band and they want to use it, I'm more than happy to charge a rental fee and set it all up.

Here's how you solve the problem, at rehearsals anyways: don't enable the singer by having a PA set up for them. Simple as that. If you want to be nice, let them know ahead of time that they have to bring their own amplification just like the rest of the band. If you wanna dig into them a little, don't tell them, and then be like, "What? You didn't bring a mic and amp? How are you going to be heard?"
 
Here's how you solve the problem, at rehearsals anyways: don't enable the singer by having a PA set up for them. Simple as that. If you want to be nice, let them know ahead of time that they have to bring their own amplification just like the rest of the band. If you wanna dig into them a little, don't tell them, and then be like, "What? You didn't bring a mic and amp? How are you going to be heard?"

Brilliant. I've always been tempted to do this. In a previous life, I was a singer and I always made sure I knew about the PA before I went to sing - quite often I sang solo without a PA, with a Piano and then I tried to find out about the acoustics of the venue as much as possible to work out the best place to stand and how to project.

What bothers me is that most singers don't actually think about these parts of their performances. Having a good voice and musicality is most of the art but if you're really serious, you need to take your whole art seriously and consider all of the variables, be it room size, microphone placement (and type) to produce the best performance you can.
 
It's all just a matter of degree. People take things to different levels of seriousness. I knew one lead singer, who was basically homeless, but he had a 2000 watt PA (nice stuff, too). The #1 in his life ..... singing.​
 
Wow, good response to the post.

Thanks all of you. I guess the singer comes in two basic varieties as well as the fuzzy analog combinations of the two types.

There are singers who are musicians, they may be able to read music, sight sing and they can sing music. They look at their singing as a musical instrument. Let us call these types “Soloists.”

The other type of singer is the one that does it like an actor. They can put on a good show in front of an audience; they have gestures and can get audience participation. Let us call this type “Actors.”

And as I stated above there is a combination of the two.

I guess we never expect a horn player soloist to come with his Selmer Saxophone and a PA system. Perhaps the singer who looks at the voice as a musical instrument has an outlook similar to the horn player.

The one’s who come from the background of stage, the actors, may just have the perspective that the PA is the companies responsibility and not theirs.

I made a joke about this last night with our singer.
We finished rehearsal at 22:39. At 22:40 she left.
The rest (keys/drums and bass) left at 23:15
It really is totally imbalanced....... should have their own gear.
Davo

I would like to take a stab using my theory I spelled out above. I think davo is dealing with the type of singer who just closes their mouth as if that is putting the horn in the case and packs up and leaves. Davo’s singer just does not care about the band she is a soloist. The band is there for her like a karaoke machine.


I'd …My biggest rant is that too many singers don't understand that a soloist has to build a solo, and sometimes this can take 2 or more progressions of the song form to accomplish. …… She knows even less about PA systems, and feedback. You can't point your mic at the monitor, duh!

…. No clue. These people need to be called out on their shortcomings, they screw up the rest of the band.
I think larryace is dealing with the Actor type and the Actor never stopped to look what was behind the curtain on stage to see how things worked.
 
Oh yeah, I wanted to say that I think I met Davo's singer in several of my bands.
 
I recently bought a new Fender Passport Pro portable 500 watt PA system to use at small venue gigs and in my home practice studio. The system is excellent by the way.
I instructed the singer and the other band members that it required powered monitors so they should buy one that suits their needs because I am not going to buy monitors. I also am supplying a black box device to plug up to 4 monitors into.
The other band members said OK but the Singer gave me a look and proceeded to tell me about all of his bills etc. All that he owns is a mic and a stand. Other members of course own thousands worth of gear.
I don't get it!
A powered monitor is a good thing for a singer to own because it can be used as a home practice tool when not being used on stage.
 
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Tell the singer how much you have spent on gear in the last few years. Make it clear that their instrument involves the PA and in all reality for small gigs, they are the only one going through it and as a result they should have paid for it, including their personal microphone.

I cannot stand that attitude. If they get funny then just 'casually leave' the PA at home for a gig and see how they manage.
 
If they get funny then just 'casually leave' the PA at home for a gig and see how they manage.
I like your mind :)
It didn't bother me to buy the PA. It actually made my life easier because I am tired of dealing with PA issues. I am good at keeping gear in pristine working condition so I know that my system will always work properly. I set it up and I plug everything in and control the use of the system at small gigs. I make sure that there are spare cables etc. It solves a lot of problems this way.
 
I like your mind :)
It didn't bother me to buy the PA. It actually made my life easier because I am tired of dealing with PA issues. I am good at keeping gear in pristine working condition so I know that my system will always work properly. I set it up and I plug everything in and control the use of the system at small gigs. I make sure that there are spare cables etc. It solves a lot of problems this way.

Totally understood. Too many PAs are owned by 'weekend heroes' that actually have no idea what they're doing and let them rot. At the point they've rotted they're leant out to a venue and the inevitable happens. Having your own PA is a perfect solution to that end.

I'm a lefty but when it comes to singers I turn horribly right-wing.
 
We have all been there BacteriumFendYoke,
Someone says that they are bringing the PA and they show up with a piece of crap.
You then spend the entire gig dealing with nerve racking issues that make you wish that you had stayed home!
 
We have all been there BacteriumFendYoke,
Someone says that they are bringing the PA and they show up with a piece of crap.
You then spend the entire gig dealing with nerve racking issues that make you wish that you had stayed home!

I have given them a dressing down before, gone to the PA and sorted it out.

Doesn't go down well but sometimes you've just got to take matters into your own hands.
 
There is a lot of common ground here and the comment that the singer is using my band as a karaoke machine rings painfully true.

We need to keep looking for a new singer ...

Some of the females we've auditioned don't look like they could lift a shoe box so how they would be able to carry a powered monitor is questionable.

BUT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THEM TRY.

Cheers
Davo
 
Some of the females we've auditioned don't look like they could lift a shoe box so how they would be able to carry a powered monitor is questionable.
A woman can't lift a 12 inch monitor but after a woman has a few kids they have no problem carrying a 30 or 40 LB kid under each arm along with a giant purse and several other child related items while talking on the cell phone.
Just wondering?
 
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