Sound guy rant

Larry

"Uncle Larry"
OMG I participated in the annual Paoli Blues Festival last weekend....Bands played on 3 different stages about a block or so apart.

We were on one of the secondary stages. My guy Zig asked a "soundman" friend of his to run sound. Now the guy has a PA, mics, etc. but is CLUELESS what he's doing, or what good sound consists of and doesn't consist of. The vocals sounded like they were sung through a guitar amp. The Subs were completely still. (No kick drum, I miced for nothing) No drums in the PA, awful sounding vocals, with the vocal level below that of the general instrument level.

It was really pitiful. He ruined the sound for hundreds of people. The main stage was plauged with the same issues I found out later. The regular sound guy had a problem, and a different person stepped in to run it. She ruined the sound for thousands of people.

The only stage with a good sound was one where the band brought their own PA and ran it from the stage.

I just hate practicing, changing heads, tuning them up to perfection, micing up, and playing my heart out only to have it mostly negated by an incompetent soundguy. Never again will I let that guy come within 10 feet of our PA. Rant not even close to being over.
 
& the grovelling masses hung their head's in dismay, & muttered under their breath unto thee "Ace who, he's not as good as Meg"!

& that's the deal right there. Although I've been dissed for this (& yes, even within my own band), a sound guy is an essential part of any amplified performance, and any band that's serious about their performances, will get their own guy in as a fully paid up band member. IMO.

That's a bummer Larry, & any muso who's paid their road dues will empathise with you. Been there, done that, got the T shirt.

Anyone seen Matt btw? Expect him here anytime soon, lol!
 
I can dig your feelings! Sorry that happened.

This past Tuesday in Miami we played a private "Concierge party" for all the hotels in Miami/Miami Beach. We hired a sound guy for $400.00. He gave us great sound and was worth the price. HOWEVER.....we were originally supposed to play in the "Japanese Garden" outside where the OPEN BAR was located but................it rained......................we wound up on the 3rd floor of the bldg......all was well in the long run but man oh man an open bar with the band next to it...............sigh!
 
Sorry to hear about it. I hate it when some amateur messes with one of my chosen professions. There's a reason there's a union for this. Too bad more people don't understand that the sound guy is like the invisible member of the band on stage.
 
The Soundman Blues

I woke up this morning
With a pain inside my head
I woke up this morning
And wished that I wuz dead
That soundman blew my mind
He blew some speakers too
If the stage sound is as bad again
I don't know what I'll do.

The foldback was a joke
Couldn't hear the vox at all
I said the foldback was was a joke
My kick drum was so small
That soundman gone killed mah gig
Bass was mud, guitars too high
You know the sound ain't workin'
When the drunks are goin' dry.

The dance floor, it was empty
The dogs were howlin' too
No one could hear the beat
There wuz nuthin' we could do
That soundman, he's a criminal
He stole that gig away
An' if I have to go through that again
Someone is gunna pay!
 
Totally agree with you Larry! I have had the same issues at pretty much every place I've played here. The band I was in sounded horrible at nearly every show, usually due to the sound guy not knowing what he was doing. Unfortunately, only one guitar player in the band could tell what did and didn't sound good.

I'm still searching for a gig with a halfway decent sound guy too...
 
In the old days our manager was also our sound engineer. He usually did a good job with gigs (as per the live Headline clip I posted a couple of weeks ago). However, in the studio the power went to his head and he tried to give us a contemporary pop sound (example also in the Headline thread). He'd compress my cymbals to death so they lost all quality. In hindsight, the sound/managerial roles had a built-in conflict of interest. Maybe a combined sound/lights guy would be better?

Agree with Andy that having a sound person on board as part of the unit is a good idea - they also take a smaller percentage on the low-paid "exposure'n'experience" gigs where most of the pay is taken up by the crew.

Get the onstage and out front sound right and you're halfway there.
 
Hey Larry, send me his address and I'll warm up the backhoe and take one of the large wooden boxes off of the shelf in my garage.
You and I will pay him a visit.
Do you have any lime?
 
OK Bob, you coax that ole backhoe down here and we'll have us a nice soundguy burial party. I'll personally provide and apply the lime.

Back to the rant, we played outside. And the guy had headphones on. WTF is the guy doing w/ headphones on outside? Any vocals we did have were dry, no verb, no polish...I swear, I'm pretty sure our whole set were just monitors because listening to the recording I made, near the end, in the middle of a tune, it's like the mains all of a sudden kicked on. We had crystal clear vocals for like1/2 of a tune. By the next song, the crystal clear vocals were gone. I'm serious when I say I had crowd members tell me they approached him with suggestions...Re-diculous!

I listened to the other bands that followed us in utter horror. I couldn't stop obsessing over the sheer number of things that were wrong with the sound.

A good sound man is so valuable. But I take issue when they get paid more than the musicians. Soundguys don't put in the hours (and expenses) of practice like the musicians. But I know that is a losing argument, so I'll stop there.

I just came back from a gig where the sound guy was extremely competent. I don't usually get to work with soundguys, we usually do it ourselves.

Hey Pol, there's some good lyrics there, you just made them up? I was imagining a melody with Shameika Copeland singing it and everything!

KBadd, 400 for a soundman?...Geez thats about what I would charge for 5 hours of electrical work. That seems skewed to me.

Incompetent people really aggravate me. Be incompetent on something that doesn't affect anyone,
 
Larry, We've all been there.
The best thing to do is just to get it out of your system and move on.
It has happened to me several times at one of Connecticut's largest night clubs where they are supposed to know better.

I don't even want to play there anymore because the sound is so bad.
The funny thing is that every time that we play there we get compliments from the audience.
Most people don't notice that the sound was bad.
 
It happens. We were at a festival two weeks ago where the bands rotated through a single stage with a single so called "sound guy" for the entire event. He was terrible: inconsistent, unavailable and stoned. All you can do is make a mental note of who NOT to work with in the future.
 
Larry, We've all been there.
The best thing to do is just to get it out of your system and move on.
It has happened to me several times at one of Connecticut's largest night clubs where they are supposed to know better.

I don't even want to play there anymore because the sound is so bad.
The funny thing is that every time that we play there we get compliments from the audience.
Most people don't notice that the sound was bad.

Ribbitt..
It actually wasnt that bad Bob. Least not what I heard. Not great but hey..

Saw a band at Daniels Street in Milford a while back. I was astonished how bad the very nice house sound system was used. I thought they must have hated the drummer. Kick WAY over the top and not a peep from the rest of the kit. Nothing. No hats, no snare no nothing. May as well have left it all home.

It's hard to grow a fan base when you sound like crap! Condolences Larry. Next will be better.
 
That's Right Jim, You were there for one of the shows.
There have been worse ones since! LOL
 
That's Right Jim, You were there for one of the shows.
There have been worse ones since! LOL

Oy!
We did a show once. First band was bringing PA, Drummer shows up with nothing. Mixer has 4 inputs. No XLR! FOH speaker were homemade boomers with 2 18's and no horns. Big as Volkswagons and sat on the floor. No monitors. Bar was full of Hells Angels. I was mildly concerned. Sound was worse then nothing. I was quite pleased not to get shot. Surprised too!
 
Some gigs are like landing a crippled aircraft.
If you walk away with just a stain in your underwear, it was all good!
Have you ever played at The Airport Road Cafe in Brainard?
 
No we dont stray far from town. Biker bar?
Yea, Big time.
The Blues Band that I was in used to get booked there all the time by out agent.
I didn't mind the bikers. I had no problem with them. I've known hard core bikers all of my life. I have worked on motorcycles from time to time.
The club is a converted car wash. It is like a tunnel with a round ceiling. The bands play at one end of the tunnel where the garage door used to be.
You can't make anything sound good in that place.
I don't play there anymore.
They used to book all kinds of bands there that's why I thought that you may have played there.
 
Larry, there's actually a reason why a sound guy would have headphones on, but if he kept them on a lot of the time, it's indicative of an OC disease. The cans let you solo an instrument to see what it sounds like by itself. If someone is busy trying to get each channel to sound "optimum" they will spend the entire gig in the cans tweaking each channel and never listening to the overall mix.

You solo something when you hear something funny or realize that something is off and you're looking for it. For the most part, you should be able to go back and forth between soloing an instrument (let's say your rack tom) and then going back to the mix in the air to hear if the eq cuts you made cleaned things up. Solo'd the tom may not sound very good, but in the overall mix, it may have distinction and allow your fills to be heard against the keyboardists left hand or whatever.

Many bands I've done sound for have everyone going at once. Often in the same register or sonic space. Most of the time, you can chop out 90% of the comping instruments that are consistently banging away. You'll still get a wash of the chord or harmony that's underpinning what is going on, but it won't overwhelm it. If you find the occasional musician who is spaciously stabbing comps in where it fits the arrangement, then you can leave them up.

The trick is recognizing when someone needs to be brought back up for a solo or fill part that is germane to the song. Musicians to mix themselves on stage are so much easier to work with. Get a balance and cut what you need so that the various instruments aren't getting muddy in the room, and sound as much like they do on stage as you can, and then sit back and enjoy the show. Unfortunately, that happens rarely.
 
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