Musicians as a percentage of the population

[larryace]

It seems there are more musicians today, here in America anyway, than in the pre digital age, from the early 80's on back. Does anyone else besides me think this is the case? Of course I have no real proof of that. It just seems like everybody and their cousin plays something.

[dmacc]

Interesting thought and I would like to think so with all the influences now available via TV and Web. That being said, all I see now is kids playing sports and being driven in uniforms to some sort of game. Not that there's anything wrong sports, I just don't see a balance in the neighborhoods I live / have lived in.

Sadly though it seems where I live musical instruments don't seem prevalent unless people practice/play very quietly. I wish I heard kids playing in garage bands or practicing their instrument at various times throughout the week.

Interesting thought though....

There are millions. And tens of thousands are great. That's the problem. It's not unique to be skilled. The information to do so today is available to everybody.

Here ya go...just some kid playing in their bedroom. There are thousands more just like it. If the industry can't use this, what chance do WE HAVE? lol! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LskRHAEioVk



...

[BigDinSD]

I just had to add here that yesterday my parents and brother came over for band practice (I drum once a month for their church when they distrbute food to the community). When we finished, we popped into my 11 year old son's room. He was gaming online. Pretty good at it too. I pointed to the corner where a dusty SG (Epiphone) was sitting next to a practice amp. Good thing it wasn't a Gibson SG!

My 22 year old just sold his Bass Guitar and Amp last month. My 14 yr old daughter looks up fashion, music videos on Youtube. No longer the piano tabs to popular songs.

You're right, a lot has to do with the media influence from media and the hi-tech advertisers. I mean, have you seen how exciting and interactive video games are nowadays? When I was growing up (50 yr old now) we could only play baseball, marbles or build tree houses. It takes a different kid nowadays whose creative thirst can be quenched by the audio senses.

I keep asking the 11 year old what song he wants to jam to...

[DrumEatDrum]

Well, there is a much higher population now, so there are more musicians.

If that translates to the same percent age of the total population, I don't know.

I think more than anything is we are way more aware of how many musicians there are.
Thanks to to things like this forum, we are able to interact with way more musicians than we would have been able to in the past. With youtube, we can see way, way, way more musicians than we could have pre-net.

[opentune]

Absolutely. More and cheaper instruments produced per day, new or used, lots of help online, and growing population = more people. All adds up to greater access and numbers. Its the same in other fine arts. I'm not sure there are growing levels of 'professional' musicians though. I think there are clearly hotspots, but in most places, live music is on the decline, so less gigs, which means a growing number of musicians may be hobbyists not pros. I wonder what the studio world is like, growing or declining for employment of musicians?

[Deathmetalconga]

Originally Posted by dmacc

Interesting thought and I would like to think so with all the influences now available via TV and Web. That being said, all I see now is kids playing sports and being driven in uniforms to some sort of game. Not that there's anything wrong sports, I just don't see a balance in the neighborhoods I live / have lived in.

Sadly though it seems where I live musical instruments don't seem prevalent unless people practice/play very quietly. I wish I heard kids playing in garage bands or practicing their instrument at various times throughout the week.

Interesting thought though....

In my neighborhood, we live a half-mile from a high school sports field and I love hearing the cheers from the audience - it adds to the neighborhood. Likewise, I think it's great to pass by someone's home and to hear live music coming from it.

To answer this thread, I'd say more people than ever play. Thanks to public education and free musical instruction in schools, I'd say a huge chunk of the population has been exposed to some kind of learning. On the other hand, I don't know how many people keep it up. I run into people all the time who said they haven't played in decades.

So what is a musician for the purposes of this discussion? I'd say it is someone who practices their instrument at least once a month and has enough fluency to play with others if called for.

[larryace]

One might consider looking at total instrument sales per population (by country?) by year, and make a graph, as a barometer of sorts, to prove or disprove the theory. At least show the trend...I think it's reasonable to assume that the more people into music, the more total instrument sales there would be. Right?

Yea I'll get right on that graph lol. That's something Grea would do, analysist that she is.

[DrumEatDrum]

Originally Posted by larryace

One might consider looking at total instrument sales per population (by country?) by year, and make a graph, as a barometer of sorts, to prove or disprove the theory. At least show the trend...I think it's reasonable to assume that the more people into music, the more total instrument sales there would be. Right?

Yea I'll get right on that graph lol. That's something Grea would do, analysist that she is.

If there was easy access to the numbers.

I suspect sales are up (relative to the tanked economy anyway), simply because there are so many more manufacturers today than 25 years ago. They wouldn't be making products if no one was buying them.

When I got my first job in a drum shop in 1987/88:
Mapex, Dddrum, Crush, Drumcraft didn't exist.
Yamaha had two drum lines.
Gretch had one drum line (plus their budget line that no one ever bought).
DW were know for pedals, not drums.
Ludwig has two choices.

In cymbals, there was the big three, Meniel was tiny player, and NO one else. Now there are dozens of cymbal companies.

In drums heads, it was Remo. Evans was barely a blip in sales, and no one heard of Aquarian drum heads yet.

The sheer amount of choices in drums, cymbals and heads then was a fraction of the choices today. Which doesn't mean total sales are up by the same multiplier in number of choices, as some of the big names have less market share, but overall, there wouldn't be so many new names in the business, and the established names wouldn't offer so many more lines if there wasn't enough sales to make it worth entering and staying in the market.

[Big Foot]

Seems to me like there are more people playing music. I live in the burbs and I can find a jam session to sit in on almost every day of the week (probably dayly if I looked) and that's w/out driving 20 minutes into the city.

I think it might have something to do with how we have more time on our hands (I don't btw) and we want something more fulfilling that TV and the Net. I see parallels w/sport. I also see a lot more people out there playing sports, at all ages.

[keep it simple]

Judging by the number of punters who introduced themselves as musicians after last night's gig, I'd say we're overrun!

Oh, & I forgot, + the grumpy old self promoting git at the bar during soundcheck. "I'm a musician. I used to sell out stadiums 30 years ago blah blah blah. You're a good band but you're too loud, & have no respect for your audience, etc, etc". The venue manager told him to feck off & asked us if we could turn it up a bit :)

[groove1]

Don't know...but in numbers, sure there are more today than before but in percentage of
the population I'm not so sure. Remember that before Television especially, most households
had musical instruments and people entertained themselves. Most homes had at least a piano, guitar, banjo, fiddle...something. It was commonplace for people to play music after
the evening meal in their homes.

[Anon La Ply]

Originally Posted by plangentmusic

There are millions. And tens of thousands are great. That's the problem. It's not unique to be skilled.

Ain't that the truth! I think that has a lot to do with what we were talking about on other threads - how virtuosity in musicians is less valued in popular music today than in the past.

While mastery isn't so common, there are tons of skilled drummers out there displaying what I think of as "apparent virtuosity", and Jo Public can't see much difference between that and real drumming mastery. Supply and demand. If there's tons of hotshots out there then it devalues in the public eye. Certainly a different age to the days when people goggled at Chick Webb and Gene Krupa's skills.

Now that kind of dexterity is taken as a given.

Sorry, I digress. Re the OP, I wanted to add that there's tons of ex-musicians and musicians in hibernation. My last boss achieved grade 8 on piano but he hasn't played for years. There are some good musical skills out there buried under the need to establish family and career.

[coloradodrummer]

I am a band director and I believe that there are less people playing instruments. 20 years ago the number of students who were in band or choir was way up from now. I teach at a 2A school, we have about 30% the student body in the band. 20 years ago it was closer to 70%.

Today with the easy access to garage band, youtube, internet and other recording programs, its easier to share what you have recorded.

I believe that the quality of musician is worse than it has ever been. The younger generation would rather play video games than spend some time learning how to play an instrument.

[con struct]

It seems like more because all of them are on the internet. Maybe half of them can actually play. Maybe.

[opentune]

Originally Posted by coloradodrummer

I am a band director and I believe that there are less people playing instruments. 20 years ago the number of students who were in band or choir was way up from now. I teach at a 2A school, we have about 30% the student body in the band. 20 years ago it was closer to 70%.

Today with the easy access to garage band, youtube, internet and other recording programs, its easier to share what you have recorded.

I believe that the quality of musician is worse than it has ever been. The younger generation would rather play video games than spend some time learning how to play an instrument.

could this possibly be cost of getting into a music program, which isi expensive for many families and/or at some schools? on the other hand, the number of self taughts (who might not be in your class) is on the rise

[bermuda]

Originally Posted by DrumEatDrum

I think more than anything is we are way more aware of how many musicians there are.
Thanks to to things like this forum, we are able to interact with way more musicians than we would have been able to in the past.

Exactly. I don't think the percentage has really changed at all. I know roughly the same ratio of players to non-players as I did 20 or 30 years ago, maybe 60/40 citizens to players. Although I certainly know more people in general, and the numbers on both sides have gone up for that reason.

As for the percentage of full time pros amongst those players I know, that's a small number, maybe 5-10%. I could check my address book and tally it up, but I'm kinda afraid to find out the truth.

Bermuda

[bermuda]

Well, I got curious, so I went through my address book/database, tallied everyone who's enough of a player to have listed their instrument next to their name, and then counted those who make (or made) a full-time living playing, not including those working elsehwere in the industry. Surprisingly, 31% of my musician friends are full-time pros!

Bermuda

[dmacc]

Originally Posted by Anon La Ply

Ain't that the truth! I think that has a lot to do with what we were talking about on other threads - how virtuosity in musicians is less valued in popular music today than in the past.

While mastery isn't so common, there are tons of skilled drummers out there displaying what I think of as "apparent virtuosity", and Jo Public can't see much difference between that and real drumming mastery. Supply and demand. If there's tons of hotshots out there then it devalues in the public eye. Certainly a different age to the days when people goggled at Chick Webb and Gene Krupa's skills.

Now that kind of dexterity is taken as a given.

Sorry, I digress. Re the OP, I wanted to add that there's tons of ex-musicians and musicians in hibernation. My last boss achieved grade 8 on piano but he hasn't played for years. There are some good musical skills out there buried under the need to establish family and career.

Well stated..........

Originally Posted by coloradodrummer

I am a band director and I believe that there are less people playing instruments. 20 years ago the number of students who were in band or choir was way up from now. I teach at a 2A school, we have about 30% the student body in the band. 20 years ago it was closer to 70%.

Today with the easy access to garage band, youtube, internet and other recording programs, its easier to share what you have recorded.

I believe that the quality of musician is worse than it has ever been. The younger generation would rather play video games than spend some time learning how to play an instrument.

Agreed and my experience as a one time full-time private teacher. Many (not all) kids today want and almost expect instant gratification and given the times we are in where so much is accessible on demand - it's no wonder. The discipline required to study an instrument is almost out the window.

Originally Posted by DrumEatDrum

If there was easy access to the numbers.

I suspect sales are up (relative to the tanked economy anyway), simply because there are so many more manufacturers today than 25 years ago. They wouldn't be making products if no one was buying them.

When I got my first job in a drum shop in 1987/88:
Mapex, Dddrum, Crush, Drumcraft didn't exist.
Yamaha had two drum lines.
Gretch had one drum line (plus their budget line that no one ever bought).
DW were know for pedals, not drums.
Ludwig has two choices.

In cymbals, there was the big three, Meniel was tiny player, and NO one else. Now there are dozens of cymbal companies.

In drums heads, it was Remo. Evans was barely a blip in sales, and no one heard of Aquarian drum heads yet.

The sheer amount of choices in drums, cymbals and heads then was a fraction of the choices today. Which doesn't mean total sales are up by the same multiplier in number of choices, as some of the big names have less market share, but overall, there wouldn't be so many new names in the business, and the established names wouldn't offer so many more lines if there wasn't enough sales to make it worth entering and staying in the market.

It would be interesting to get the full publication and older ones comparing more than just the last 10 years but here's some data..... http://www.musictrades.com/census.html

Think about it -- 30 years ago a classical musician was considered the epitome of craftsmanship. What a classical violinist does isn't as much "art" as it is skill. You perform and interpret the written note. You don't compose, you don't improvise. These people usually were an advantaged elite -- people who trained young, had access to the best teachers and instruments and education.


Now...fast forward 30 years. That information is available to millions of people. Instruments are more assessable. Educational material is at everyone's fingertips. The result? Thousands and thousands of virtuosos. Not artists -- but people who are masters on any given instrument. Hey, check out my sig -- for no other reason other than I'm orchestrating a full symphony and that is something I would NEVER have thought I'd ever do 10 years ago. WHY??? Becuase the tools weren't available. Now they are. And you know what? It's not so hard. Not to say anyone can do it or I'm some sort of genius -- it all comes down to availability.

30 years ago, if some 16 year old kid played like Jimi Hendrix, he'd have a record contract immediately. It would be too much talent to pass up. Today, who CAN'T play like Jimi Hendrix? The reason mastery on an instrument isn't valued is because too many people are masters. If a 16 year old GIRL could play like Hendrix, she'd be a superstar. Today, there are thousands.

So is life. 40 years ago, you had a BIG advantage if your family owned an encyclopedia! Going to college insured a good job. Today, it means next to nothing.

Just recently I watched E.T and laughed at the end when the kids were doing the stunts on the bicycles. That was really impressive in 1979. Today, there isn't a kid alive who couldn't do that stuff.

And on and on it goes. No one cares about musicianship. But music will always be a part of life.

And one more thing -- the old school guys like Bruford and Palmer and Phil Collins may have been virtuosos for the time, but they had one other thing -- they were in bands with SONGS. So many of todays chopmeisters just wank away -- and that will appeal to a very small segment of the music buying public. And rightly so.

[Dr_Watso]

Well, figuring that every self absorbed moron plays guitar, and every Asian got forced to play piano. That's a good portion of the earth right there. There's also the very small minority of super cool bass players and drummers, but we're hardly worth a mention!

[Anduin]

Completely subjectively it seems that there are fewer musicians now than back in the day. I want to hope that I’m wrong, but of the many kids I’ve known to take up an instrument, only 1 is interested enough to actually get to a proficient level of playing. (It’s probably relevant that this 1 kid’s dad and his dad’s dad are both excellent, highly seasoned musicians.)

[markdrum]

We've gone from musicians like Duke Ellington, James Brown, the Beatles, the Rolling Stones and a whole mess of others to 50 Cent, Kanye West, Brittney Spears, Lady Gag Gag and far too many others. Most of the people they call "musicians" now can't play a note. They're too busy being "gangstas". I think it all started going downhill with Alice Cooper and Kiss. Acts where the light show was more important than what was being lit up. There, that should get it going.