Meg White

Re: Jack White Defends Meg

As I said before, if you like the music it's ok (I don't particularly enjoy it, have tried to like it though). If she inspires, especially young girls to pick up drums it's definitely great. I just wouldn't start yet another simplicity-cult around her, there's just too many of those already, I think. I would start it around someone who has a bit more life behind him/her & has something more feelwise going than a great songwriter to back her up. =)

i don't actually listen to their music at all (i think i heard a couple of their songs when i was younger), but if you go and teach young children then its these kinds of bands/artists who get them interested in playing drums. i'm talking the general-off-the-street kid, not some 9 year old child prodigy who gets taught by great teachers.

i do agree with what you said, but - when was the last time you heard bands including players like dave weckl, steve smith etc playing on national radio? (not talking sessions here, actual bands). i'm not sure what the playlists are like in finland, but in the UK we have mainly pop/rock/dance on the national radio station.
most of the kids that i help out are into bands like the killers, foals, foo fighters, radiohead, etc.

this kind of music isn't as complicated as insert random high quality jazz/fusion band here, but it's just as relevant. infact in terms of young kids learning i think it's more relevant because it's the kind of stuff they hear in their day to day lives. once they get into drums you can then steer them in the direction of music that is different.

out of interest, do you actually think that Jack makes music with his primary influence being money? i'm sure you were being sarcastic (in retrospect). my opinion is that money makes the world go round, and without backing i will never be able to do it.
 
Re: Jack White Defends Meg

Yep JT, must admit that I couldn't keep holding back to the degree that Meg does - I'd burst!

Still, my understanding is that Jack changes arrangements at gigs around without notice and Meg has to be ready for it, so staying put allows him the freedom to go for it and lets her listen out for sudden changes without the risk of a train crash.

If the drums are in the middle of a hero fill then Jack has no choice but stay at home and play the arrangement as per the record. It's not a democratic band - Meg's a stay-at-home-mum (drum) while Jack goes a'gallivanting. That's the dynamic.

When there's just two people it does allow for more flexibility than in most rock, while at the same time throwing a ton of responsibility on each player. I've seen two-man free improvs but if they make an error most people wouldn't even know, whereas with the WS an error would stick out like dog's yarbles.

No sense hiring Vinnie to play that role. Meg's ideal.
 
Re: Jack White Defends Meg

out of interest, do you actually think that Jack makes music with his primary influence being money? i'm sure you were being sarcastic (in retrospect). my opinion is that money makes the world go round, and without backing i will never be able to do it.

Indeed I was being sarcastic, I wouldn't know if he does or not as I don't read up on him to know but his comment does make me wonder. I agree entirely, money does make the world go around and that is what I have my full time job for, I work, get paid, buy stuff for my kit and play gigs for nothing, that's the reality and truth of it. Obviously it is his full time job and he has to make money from it but whether he does it for the money or not is a different thing.

Also I say I would play for free but in reality I would need to be paid if it was my full time job. However if I was asked to go touring full time and they said we can't pay you but we can supply you with food, transport and accommodation, I would say sign me up doc!
 
Re: Jack White Defends Meg

Hmmm... minimalistic? I fondly remember reading a copy of Modern Drummer where contributing staff drummer (the great) Peter Erskine slammed Dave Grohl over a Modern Drummer interview where Dave was quoted as taking an "admitted minimalistic" approach to drumming. The comment that Erskine made has stuck with me to this day which was "in order to be considered minimalistic you must be capable of virtuosity" which to me was a bit harsh, like a slap across the face to one of the most influential drummers of the generation. Taken from one of the modern masters, if i were Dave Grohl i probably would tucked my tail between my legs and gotten myself a good drum instructor and then practiced my ass off.

As for Meg, more power to her, you GO GIRL.

Is it better to be Ringo Starr or Neil Peart??? I'd have rather been Ringo, duh???
 
Re: Jack White Defends Meg

It's mostly pop/rock/dance on radio in Oz too I don't hear metal in Oz radio although I'm sure there's a station or two. I have noticed more metal appearing in TV ads aimed at appealing to young guys.

I'm hoping that metal doesn't get huge here as it has in Scandinavia and the US. I only like a few metal numbers, most of them by either Tool or RATM. I'm a King Crimson nut but their metal side leaves me cold, apart from LTIA. The minute there's Cookie Monsters or machine gun grooves, I'm out. I'd rather hear WS any day.

Metal ain't what it used to be. Now Black Sabbath, that was fun. But this growl growl boogidy boogidy stuff ... gimme a break! lol Where's the charm? Ozzy had it!

I can hardly make out anything that the growlers are saying and when I do it's normally just young men's angst. Wowie zowie. The weird thing is that every metalhead I meet is a fair dinkum lovely guy. I can't put the two together - these fun, intelligent, easygoing guys and this maniacally angry music. I can only guess that they're getting it out of their systems. There might be some value to musical Gestalt therapy that acts as a safety valve, but I's rather not hear it. There ya go. Some of you think WS are primitive and I think modern metal is ugly. No accounting for taste, eh?

Wow, that was a rant ... probably been reading too much Pat Methany talking about Kenny G.

Thaard, I'd love to play Seven Nation Army ... just sit there going thump thump thump with attitude for half a song. Bring it on, I say :)

EDIT: Dios, I agree with Peter E in that more headroom = more "on the button" minimalist playing. It depends on the style though. The lack of headroom in WS creates a certain feel that's appealing. It wouldn't work as well played slick and precise. Dave Grohl has done well for himself too, even though he wouldn't have anywhere near as much headroom as Peter E.
 
Re: Jack White Defends Meg

I can hardly make out anything that the growlers are saying and when I do it's normally just young men's angst. Wowie zowie. The weird thing is that every metalhead I meet is a fair dinkum lovely guy. I can't put the two together - these fun, intelligent, easygoing guys and this maniacally angry music. I can only guess that they're getting it out of their systems. There might be some value to musical Gestalt therapy that acts as a safety valve, but I's rather not hear it. There ya go. Some of you think WS are primitive and I think modern metal is ugly. No accounting for taste, eh?

You know Polly, I hate to sound like a broken record but it's all matter of exposure. I remember when I was young I used to bash people for listening to "that growly stuff, I can't even hear what they are saying". But then all my friends listened to that sort of stuff so eventually I got used to it. That's why I hate top40 lists on radio and TV because they are self-fulfilling prophecies. Of course people buy them because they are all they know and are used to listen to. But it doesn't mean in the slightest that they are actually better than anything else. And I'm quite sure those lists have nothing to do with actual bought records, more like how much the music stores think they will need them in relation how big of a marketting plan the band has. =P It's all really complicated and besides the point of music imo.
 
Re: Jack White Defends Meg

I don't care about minimalism, nor do I care about overcomplication. What I care about is when then parts fit together and THAT's what Meg White does perfectly. White Stripes songs would sound downright strange if she was playing anything else.

To me, Seven Nation Army proves that a song can be done perfectly with eighth notes.
 
Re: Jack White Defends Meg

I don't care about minimalism, nor do I care about overcomplication. What I care about is when then parts fit together and THAT's what Meg White does perfectly. White Stripes songs would sound downright strange if she was playing anything else.

To me, Seven Nation Army proves that a song can be done perfectly with eighth notes.

That particular song makes me think "what a great motive, why don't they develope it further?". =P And here we go with self-fulfilling prophecies again. Of course it would sound strange now to do it differently when we have totooed the pattern to our brain via radio and TV, but that doesn't mean it absolutely _couldn't_ be done better. =P And if it's perfect, why do you ever play anything else?
 
Re: Jack White Defends Meg

I think Drum-Head nailed it, in that there's some jealously going on. She's become more famous than any of us will by playing really simple stuff, and that kind of makes us feel like all that time we've spent in the practice room has been a waste.

A part of me does feel that way, and in an ideal world the best musicians would also be the most famous. But that's not the way it is, at least in the pop music world; the musicians who find the most fame are the ones who can write songs that connect with people. Just listen to Bob Dylan or Neil Young and you'll see what I mean. Most music fans aren't very impressed by technical virtuosity. However, if you can pair great musicianship with great songwriting, you'll be a superstar because you can appeal to musicians and non-musicians like (see The Beatles, Led Zeppelin, etc.).
 
Re: Jack White Defends Meg

Also I say I would play for free but in reality I would need to be paid if it was my full time job. However if I was asked to go touring full time and they said we can't pay you but we can supply you with food, transport and accommodation, I would say sign me up doc!

oh don't get me wrong, so would i (and i have in the past). but when your a young adult that doesn't have cash cow parents and need to keep spending money on buying new equipment and fuel then you really need some kind of income (especially if you only have enough time to work a part time job because of your practice requirements).
I would play music for free, I go and do work experience at local schools for free just because its fun, but in the end that won't enable me to play in tokyo, sydney, new york, barcelona, paris, etc.

I still sometimes listen to the simple stuff I hear on the radio or TV just to stay connected to the current movements in popular music. But the perspective has changed. I don't listen to it to find great musicians (if I actually find one, it'll be a surprise bonus =P) but I try to listen to what the producers have been doing, what influences have they had, what new they have developed if anything and how the songs have been written and constructed to really influnce the masses on large scale.

I agree entirely. I think we have a very similar viewpoint. For example, I listen to post rock (its one of my favourite styles of music/drumming at the moment), but I only listen to the best bands, e.g. from monument to masses, god is an astronaut, etc. I haven't got enough time to listen to a whole genre.

For example, my practice schedule so far today has been from 6am til 12pm, then 1pm – 4pm.
I've covered warm ups, some rudimental work, metal/progressive/post rock/drum and bass/dubstep/hip-hop/electro/pop, and i’m in the middle of a few hours of afro cuban.
Then I have to spend this afternoon/evening producing and recording for my own/other peoples compositions and then finally go and have a band practice at about 8pm.

You'll notice I left out jazz, i do whole day sessions on this rather than a few hours here and there because I find I have to get into the mode to actually get anything out of it, it's the style of music I struggle most with at the moment.

In closing, I don't listen to the white stripes at all, and it really isn't what I'd normally play, but if it gets a 8 year old kid to pick up drums like I did and have a great time then I have to respect it. As much as I don't listen to them now, its bands like blink 182, the offspring, limp bizkit, korn etc that got me into music in the first place! I say music, because music is so much more than simply playing drums in my opinion.
 
Re: Jack White Defends Meg

2010-03-19 by Alex C. Soothsayer

In a recent interview Jack White spoke out about the criticism his ex-wfie and drummer Meg White. Jack White explained that Meg chooses a minimalistic approach to drumming to avoid over-complication, and added that she has inspired many to pick up the drums.

"Her femininity and extreme minimalism are too much to take for some metalheads and reverse-contrarian hipsters,"

"She can do what those with 'technical prowess' can't. She inspires people to bash on pots and pans. For that, they repay her with gossip and judgement."

White also added:

"In the end she's laughing all the way to the Prada handbag store, she wins every time."


Source: http://www.sputnikmusic.com/news.php?newsid=13264

Meg chooses a minimalistic approach to drumming 'cause that's all she's GOT. Like all OTHER simple styled drummers, if they HAD the "chops" they'd most likely USE 'em, same with her.

I STILL say she's not so good, simple or not.

Phil Rudd is a simple player, and he'll mop the floor with MOST drummers with the pocket full'o groove he lays down.

Meg White . . . not so much.
 
Re: Jack White Defends Meg

You have got some nice practice hours there mate. =P You have to tell me someday how you manage to stay focused (and not give up) all that time. I have really hard time focusing more than 3 hours in a row and more than 5-6hours a day. Do you find it gets easier the more you do it? I don't know if my ability to focus has really changed that much over the years. I hope I could practice that much. I have the time but my brain fails me. =/

ahh. well i don't simply play non-stop. if i spend an hour on one style for example, then i will play for about 50 minutes, and take a 10 minute break in the middle. or take a couple of 5 minute breaks. i could never play for this amount of hours non-stop all the way through. if anything it is the breaks which are the most important parts of the puzzle, because i will sit down with my pad and try to memorize what i've been doing for the past 30 minutes.

i'm not sure if it has gotten easier due to repetition (i'm sure it has though), but lately i have cut out all video games etc. so i really have nothing to distract me, other than drummerworld/myspace/facebook! haha :)

my brain really used to fail me too so i know where you're coming from. that said i did used to watch a lot of TV etc. since i cut them out of my life my concentration has increased a lot.
 
Re: Jack White Defends Meg

You know Polly, I hate to sound like a broken record but it's all matter of exposure.

JP, I am much older than you and no doubt have listened far more broadly than you have. So if you spent more time trying to unlock the reason why some very simple music is highly effective artistically perhaps you would understand it more? :p

However, we have visceral responses to music that is too often underestimated. I have heard enough death metal to know that it has precious few of the qualities I seek in music. I would suggest the same with you and catchy poprock. There is a reson why I know of no middle aged women who are keen on death metal. To us it feels like an assault.

I see death metal and its derivatives as being the musical equivalent to slasher films, which I also find ugly.

But I'm not all about beauty and tra la la sweetness. I am fine with musical ugliness if I see strong elements of originality, lyrical quality, strong mood creation, interesting timbres, enjoyale grooves, dynamic variation and content/form synergies. I see few of those qualities in modern metal. Tool are the exception - great band. RATM can be enjoyable too because they groove, even if they don't have a lot of different grooves.
 
Re: Jack White Defends Meg

JP, I am much older than you and no doubt have listened far more broadly than you have. So if you spent more time trying to unlock the reason why some very simple music is highly effective artistically perhaps you would understand it more? :p

However, we have visceral responses to music that is too often underestimated. I have heard enough death metal to know that it has precious few of the qualities I seek in music. I would suggest the same with you and catchy poprock. There is a reson why I know of no middle aged women who are keen on death metal. To us it feels like an assault.

I see death metal and its derivatives as being the musical equivalent to slasher films, which I also find ugly.

But I'm not all about beauty and tra la la sweetness. I am fine with musical ugliness if I see strong elements of originality, lyrical quality, strong mood creation, interesting timbres, enjoyale grooves, dynamic variation and content/form synergies. I see few of those qualities in modern metal. Tool are the exception - great band. RATM can be enjoyable too because they groove, even if they don't have a lot of different grooves.

I don't really have to try to get myself exposed to simple catchy pop stuff, it's everywhere. I wouldn't say death metal is the same. You'd had to give it a try every day for 30 years for it to really be on the same level than what we hear on the radio. So that's where friends come in to the picture. If you hang out all the time with metal heads you'll become one yourself too. That was my point.

But yeah, I'm not saying eveeryone has to like metal. I don't listen to it that much either these days. It has such a limited range of emotions going, just different shades of negative emotions. But there's much more to life than that. But when I'm angry some Strapping Young Lad always helps me out of it. =)
 
Re: Jack White Defends Meg

I love Jack White. He has got to be the coolest rock star out there. I love the Stripes, The Raconteurs, and The Dead Weather.

It's pretty obvious to me that that Jack made an artistic choice to go with, as he once put it "primitive, childlike drumming". His use of the words "primitive" and "childlike" denotes a certain Cezanne-esque mindset. It's not "simple" or "dumb". It's "primitive" and that is a key artistic distinction for me.

It's also pretty obvious to me that Jack is the driving musical genius behind the Stripes and that Meg happened to fit that vision.

It's all Jack, man. Meg helped him to fulfill that artistic vision but she does not deserve the same level of credit that he does for envisioning it.

Jack could have made the stripes with another limited drummer. But you have no Stripes without Jack.

But don't hate on Meg, she's cool. Not everyone wants or needs to be Tony Williams.

And she does make more money than you...
 
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Re: Jack White Defends Meg

I don't like to say I like this style or I hate that style. There are a few styles I don't like to listen to, but basically I love well (or very well :) ) played music, and I don't care for badly played stuff. I also like some well programmed (and thought through) music.

There are some exceptions, meaning not very brilliantly played, but nonetheless beautiful or attractive for any reason pieces of music.

If a group of classy musicians play a relatively simple piece of pop music, it will have groove, it will have subtlety, it will have dynamics, it will have feel (meaning the musicians know what they're "saying") etc. Of course the song must be good, or at least appeal to me too, but while bad musicians can ruin everything, good ones will make many things worth listening to.
 
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Re: Jack White Defends Meg

nicely put matthias! :)
 
Re: Jack White Defends Meg

I love Jack White. He has got to be the coolest rock star out there. I love the Stripes, The Raconteurs, and The Dead Weather.

It's pretty obvious to me that that Jack made an artistic choice to go with, as he once put it "primitive, childlike drumming". His use of the words "primitive" and "childlike" denotes a certain Cezanne-esque mindset. It's not "simple" or "dumb". It's "primitive" and that is a key artistic distinction for me.

It's also pretty obvious to me that Jack is the driving musical genius behind the Stripes and that Meg happened to fit that vision.

It's all Jack, man. Meg helped him to fulfill that artistic vision but she does not deserve the same level of credit that he does for envisioning it.

Jack could have made the stripes with another limited drummer. But you have no Stripes without Jack.

But don't hate on Meg, she's cool. Not everyone wants or needs to be Tony Williams.

And she does make more money than you...

Great post - right on the button. No coincidence that they named an album De Stijl.
 
Re: Jack White Defends Meg

That particular song makes me think "what a great motive, why don't they develope it further?". =P And here we go with self-fulfilling prophecies again. Of course it would sound strange now to do it differently when we have totooed the pattern to our brain via radio and TV, but that doesn't mean it absolutely _couldn't_ be done better. =P And if it's perfect, why do you ever play anything else?

I think you're missing my point. I said A song CAN be perfect like that. Again, it's a matter of figuring out what sound a given song should have and keying the instruments toward it. Seven Nation Army works like it does because it's a thumping, almost marching feel.
 
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