How can I get my double stroke roll cleaner?

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Okay, well I made a spot for tenors, however, some parts of our show is very bad, because my double stroke roll is not that great... This is my first year marching a percussion instrument, so it's not perfect. Anyway, my percussion tech told me that it needs to be clean by tomorrow, so is there any way to do this?

Basically, my diddles on single drums are ok (not good, but not disgusting), but when I play diddles round drums, they're not really together, he told me to make them sound the same round drums.

So can I accomplish (or at least make it a little better) before tomorrow? Also if there are any exercises I can practice, that'd be great, or if there's any tips I can have.

Thanks

EDIT: My grip has been a little loose lately, because I accidentally ripped the skin off my fingers with a super heavy stick and it hurts to grip it tightly. Would this have anything to do with it?
 
There's tons of things you can do to improve your doubles.

This is a good one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sz1oUOtla9w

Check patterns alternating between singles, doubles and paradiddles is another. dedicated practice on doubles is also great.

But to clean 'em up in a day? Good luck with that. Rome wasn't built in a day.....and neither is a good double stroke. Better hit that pad.
 
How to get it cleaner? Slow down until you can play them and work on your accuracy. Repeat several times daily for about a year, increasing speed as your accuracy allows. That'll get you there. Forget about tomorrow. That won't happen. Try out again next year.

Good luck!
 
caddywumpus said:
How to get it cleaner? Slow down until you can play them and work on your accuracy. Repeat several times daily for about a year, increasing speed as your accuracy allows. That'll get you there. Forget about tomorrow. That won't happen. Try out again next year.

Good luck!
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Wholly agreed. Best advice. Slow it down and just trudge through it. And no way is this gonna happen in a day! Thats either cruelty or complete ineptitude on the part of your instructor to make you think that you could fix an issue like this in a day. Whack, man! Sorry, something about that whole scenario just bugged me. I mean, he tells you to have em clean by tomorrow, yet youre on here asking us how that could be possible (so did he give you any exercises or anything to make this task a doable one?)
 
As much as I respect Chapin, I think that is terrible. I learned Henry Adler's No Bounce, Controlled Bounce, Bounce system to develp the roll. I think it's much more systematic and the results are great.
 
bigd said:
As much as I respect Chapin, I think that is terrible.
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Why's that?

I've heard you mention the Adler system before and I think I recall you giving a brief rundown to someone a while back. Can you go into some detail as to the process, or similarly are there any links or examples available to check out?
 
brittc89 said:
Wholly agreed. Best advice. Slow it down and just trudge through it. And no way is this gonna happen in a day! Thats either cruelty or complete ineptitude on the part of your instructor to make you think that you could fix an issue like this in a day. Whack, man! Sorry, something about that whole scenario just bugged me. I mean, he tells you to have em clean by tomorrow, yet youre on here asking us how that could be possible (so did he give you any exercises or anything to make this task a doable one?)
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That's my instructor for you... after about 9 hours of straight drumming, he excepts us to go home and come back tomorrow with all of it clean, and with the ridiculous amount of blisters I get, it's almost impossible.

However, he told me to just do diddles, and that got me a small amount better, so that he wasn't too pissed at me. At least the snares did worse.
 
Assuming you know how to properly utilize your wrist, middle and ring fingers during the double-stroke, one exercise you can try is to accent the second note of the double-stroke, starting very slowly of course, maintaining evenness. Then gradually increase the tempo. As you increase the tempo, the accents should even out to produce a nice even double stroke roll. The key, as in with almost everything, is starting at a painstakingly slow tempo and understand the importance and the feel of the space between the notes. Stay relaxed and comfortable...if you aren't relaxed, then you probably are going too fast.

There are other useful exercises but I've had a lot of success with this one in my early years.

Unfortunately, there isn't a quick fix...like most things, it takes time to develop.

Good luck!
 
Yes bigd link us to some Adler please?

You know what works for me? Ruffs! Probably because they are the smallest form of a double. If you can't execute them, how are you going to execute a double stroke roll? Ratamacues. Double ratamacues. 5 stroke. 7 stroke. 9 stroke. Again, if you can't execute short ones, how can you execute a long one? Build the roll from the ground up in other words(as the rudiments seem to suggest?). It doesn't have to be the exact rudiments, maybe some forms that are less boring.

Another thing I'll do is to go extremely fast and light, kinda floating on top of the roll, just to teach my hands what's gonna be required of that speed and precision. Then I slow it down to a speed where I can execute perfectly and allow my hands to completely adapt to the right grip, developing muscle memory, and the ability to capture rebounds. Then I go up and down with the speed(again, a suggested way of doing rudiments...not by accident).

One thing I've learned from long practice sessions- if you're not heading towards effortlessness, and if you're only brutalizing your hands: you're not learning anything. You'll never look like Chapin or any other master if you continue in that direction.

"Rome wasn't built in a day."! We watch too many movies, even drum line movies, where everything just happens magically. They have nothing to do with reality; or with being a craftsman, architect, doctor, musician??
 
Slow them down. There is really no over-night cure for anything on the drums, it all takes time. But slow them down. If your double strokes aren't even, you're probably relying on rebound too early. You have to use each stroke as and independent wrist motion until you absolutely cannot make even double strokes that way anymore. Than you switch to rebound.

Now you need to practice each hand working the rebound. Don't try a double stroke roll yet - just do a few quick rebound doubles to get the feel to be even.

Record yourself and ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS play to a metronome. You can find good ones all over the net. There's no excuse for you NOT to work on them with a metronome.
 
sorry I don't know of any links. you have to work with a teacher that knows it. I worked with one of adler's famous students who is a professor of percussion.

big
 
I get complimented on my doubles every now and then which is always nice.
I practice by playing the second note as an accent so when you play it at a faster tempo it sounds more even.

I also used to practice triples so 3 in each hand R R R L L L which I found helped me.

I also would practice this one R L L R R L L R R L L R R L L R

Metal sticks (aluminium) can also help you feel what the stick is doing more but don't practice with them for a long period and only on a practice pad just maybe for a few minutes.
 
I'd recommend you slow them down to a comfortable tempo. USE A METRONOME! IT HELPS! and just keep going at a steady comfortable speed until you feel you have mastered that tempo/bpm then gradually increase your tempo/bpm and repeat.
 
Gvdadrummasum said:
Ive always been a fan of Sanford double beat .... isolating hands

cleans them up very nicely

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZFJRrf6Jdc
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Great stuff! Agreed.

Related: I was a car driving practicer but have switched to keeping one hand always on the wheel(sigh). The accidental bonus is that through only playing with my left, I have been cleaning it up a lot! So much so that now I don't even need to be driving to do it(duh). Many times I thought I was accomplishing something with my left, but it was just hiding behind my right. Through isolating it, there is no hiding and there's great progress. Of course leading with the left goes hand in hand with this.

re: martineverett- the triples are great. don't forget 4's: rrrr llll....or more: rrrrrrrrrrrr lllllllllll.....
 
BigDinSD said:
So is this technique here mainly wrist + fulcrum, verses rebound for the second strokes?

What about when you're doing FAST rolls and licks? Aren't you switching over to bounce/rebound on the second stroke - possibly using something like the open-close or push-pull?
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yeah sure

switching over to one of those techniques ...or something like it is necessary at some point

but I never rely on strictly rebound

maybe a wrist fingers hybrid of some sort...but never strictly rebound

relying on a surface is a very dangerous thing

I live by the Tony Williams philosophy of .....always in control and never rely on bounce
 
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Gvdadrummasum said:
yeah sure

switching over to one of those techniques ...or something like it is necessary at some point

but I never rely on strictly rebound

maybe a wrist fingers hybrid of some sort...but never strictly rebound

relying on a surface is a very dangerous thing

I live by the Tony Williams philosophy of .....always in control and never rely on bounce
Click to expand...

This is sort of an interesting dilemma to me as a teacher. Theres a transition point for me in terms of how much Im using wrist and how much Im using bounce/fingers that occurs at a certain BPM. Its tough to convey to a student. What Ive always tried to do is make sure they are using their wrist, are in control, and even when theyre going slow, but I still emphasize the importance of the fulcrum and the role of the fingers in stabilizing and controlling both strokes. Then as we progress in terms of tempo, I explain utilizing the rebound, but also still keeping the fulcrum and fingers in control of the motion.
 
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