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  #1  
Old 07-15-2012, 01:17 PM
Brodown Brodown is offline
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Default my rudiments suck, have I missed out the fundemental part of being a drummer?

okay I can play doubles, triples, rudiments etc but not at nearly the speed id like to play them, as a result I can't drum roll and I'm not sure where im going wrong, if its my grip on the stick my technique or whatever, as far as the rest of my drumming I can play a lot of stuff in 4/4 fine, I can handle odd time signatures like 3/4 and 5/4, my fills are not particularly imaginative but I don't have much trouble with timing, but I do have a problem sometimes with playing 16th notes at a high bpm which brings me back to the whole rudiment thing, maybe im tensing up, but apart from that im not entirely sure what my problem is
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Old 07-15-2012, 01:21 PM
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Default Re: my rudiments suck, have I missed out the fundemental part of being a drummer?

How long have you been playing? Perhaps a good teacher can be the appropriate solution, as he/she will correct/guide you where you're likely to struggle, just a thought though.
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Old 07-15-2012, 01:35 PM
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Default Re: my rudiments suck, have I missed out the fundemental part of being a drummer?

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Originally Posted by Mad About Drums View Post
How long have you been playing? Perhaps a good teacher can be the appropriate solution, as he/she will correct/guide you where you're likely to struggle, just a thought though.
+1

In addition to MAD's great advice, I'll add to part of your question of "missing out on the fundamental part of being a drummer" Yes or no - it depends.

The fundamental part of being a drummer is to play with a great time feel to best support the music you are playing and the people you are playing with. This has nothing to do with executing rudiments at any given speed.

Rudiments / speed / technique in my opinion are nothing more than a means to an end. The "end", being able to play more fluently with greater ease and less tension - all should be with the goal of musicianship within the context of the situation you are in which varies from style to style.

If you want to develop better technique which sometimes accommodates more speed which may be one of your current goals, then a good teacher may be the fastest way to accomplish this.
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Old 07-15-2012, 02:40 PM
Brodown Brodown is offline
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Default Re: my rudiments suck, have I missed out the fundemental part of being a drummer?

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Originally Posted by Mad About Drums View Post
How long have you been playing? Perhaps a good teacher can be the appropriate solution, as he/she will correct/guide you where you're likely to struggle, just a thought though.
Nearly 2 years, and I was thinking of that too, I usually learn songs by ear but of course theres a big difference between learning a song and perfecting your technique
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  #5  
Old 07-15-2012, 03:05 PM
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Default Re: my rudiments suck, have I missed out the fundemental part of being a drummer?

Learning songs and musical structures is more important than technique in itself. Then if your technique allows you to play what you hear, it's fine. If it doesn't, just work on it!
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  #6  
Old 07-15-2012, 06:31 PM
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Default Re: my rudiments suck, have I missed out the fundemental part of being a drummer?

Hand development takes years and years. And years. IMO, technique is the first thing anyone should learn, meaning how to work a drumstick efficiently. This one aspect, learning how to get a drumstick to do what I want, is what I spend the most time on. I started working single stroke rolls years ago, and did them for maybe a year, but I realized that my hands weren't equal. So I dropped them and concentrated solely on whipping my left hand into shape. It was so worth it.

You must understand how much work is actually involved to be able to play equally with both hands. Holy crap it's a lot. It's taken me over 8 years and I am just about equal. I can now fast shuffle with my left hand and also do a good fast jazz ride pattern with my left hand. Finally I can play even single stroke rolls. Now I'm working on fast, even singles. I decided to achieve equalization before tackling rudiments. Now that I am basically there, I am starting with the single stroke roll, the mother of all killer rudiments.

I recommend focusing on your weak hand. It will hamstring your efforts until you get it closer to equal. I also recommend having your drumstick technique checked out by a teacher known for great hands. You have no idea how satisfying it is to hear your weak side wailing away. It's got to be experienced to be appreciated.
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  #7  
Old 07-15-2012, 07:39 PM
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Default Re: my rudiments suck, have I missed out the fundemental part of being a drummer?

What are you talking about man? It's never too late for anything! Get a practice pad, go to the vic firth website/grab a copy of stick control and start practicing!
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  #8  
Old 07-15-2012, 08:33 PM
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Default Re: my rudiments suck, have I missed out the fundemental part of being a drummer?

I'm at a similar stage, nearly 2 years of playing, good at the grooves I do for the band I'm in but have not spent much time on anything other than singles, doubles and not to any great speed.

But I recently had a bit of an eye-opener. My drum teacher got me doing this latin-y sounding groove (and this is him, in fact) made up of various paradiddle combinations a couple of months ago and I spent hours and hours the first week or so internalising the stickings then have done it every day for 10 minutes solid around the kit. I'm up to 80 bpm 16ths on it.

Now I've internalised it so well I could play it in my sleep and I'm using it as the basis for some new fill ideas.

Having done this has really made me see the benefit of practicing rudiments to give me a vocabulary that I can draw on, just the same way as I do in speech; that they're so automatic I can do them without thinking.
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  #9  
Old 07-15-2012, 09:02 PM
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Default Re: my rudiments suck, have I missed out the fundemental part of being a drummer?

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Originally Posted by Brodown View Post
okay I can play doubles, triples, rudiments etc but not at nearly the speed id like to play them, as a result I can't drum roll and I'm not sure where im going wrong, if its my grip on the stick my technique or whatever, as far as the rest of my drumming I can play a lot of stuff in 4/4 fine, I can handle odd time signatures like 3/4 and 5/4, my fills are not particularly imaginative but I don't have much trouble with timing, but I do have a problem sometimes with playing 16th notes at a high bpm which brings me back to the whole rudiment thing, maybe im tensing up, but apart from that im not entirely sure what my problem is
Most drummers get their hand technique and speed from learning and practicing rudiments, snare solos, cadences, and warm-ups in private lessons or marching band or both. So if you haven't had this experience, you'll need to find a way to get it, if you want the speed and technique necessary to play the things you want to play, as fast and as cleanly as you'd like to play them.

The dirty truth is that it's possible to play quite a bit of music on the drum set without having this sort of training. Your understanding of music can be informed from simply listening, learning another instrument, being in a band with your buddies, church, and so on. But sooner or later you'll hit a wall in the technique area of your playing, and the quickest and most effective way to get past that wall is to practice the rudiments, snare solos, and cadences, and the warm-ups and exercises that go along with them.

Sounds like you should get Great Hands For a Lifetime and go through it with a teacher. Then get a Wilcoxon snare drum book and start shedding!

As for what's preventing you from playing 16ths quickly -- my guess is it's some combination of grip, tension, posture, and proper practice methods and habits. :/
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  #10  
Old 07-15-2012, 09:08 PM
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Default Re: my rudiments suck, have I missed out the fundemental part of being a drummer?

it's always important to work on technique if you want effortless facility to execute the vocabulary you intend to express

I was told by some of the best drummers to ever live .....have a high ceiling so no matter how high you jump your head will never bump it

you are only cheating yourself if you don't work on mastering sticking combinations

a good teacher will sort your issues out in no time....it is really no big deal and can be taken care of with just some focus, effort and guidance
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  #11  
Old 08-11-2012, 12:07 AM
ycpmusicman91 ycpmusicman91 is offline
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Default Re: my rudiments suck, have I missed out the fundemental part of being a drummer?

I have been using the book Rudimental Logic by Bill Bachman for about 5 years now. It's a book meant for marching snare technique but I've adapted it to meet my needs for marching, concert, drum set, and lately I've even been adapting it to my hand percussion technique as well. My rudiments have never been better, and are continuing to grow and become cleaner each and ever day. I've used the book so much that it's completely held together by scotch tape at this point. I should probably buy a new copy at some point. . .but I have so many notes and markings in that book, that it's hard to imagine parting with it!
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  #12  
Old 08-11-2012, 12:37 AM
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Default Re: my rudiments suck, have I missed out the fundemental part of being a drummer?

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Originally Posted by Brodown View Post
okay I can play doubles, triples, rudiments etc but not at nearly the speed id like to play them, as a result I can't drum roll and I'm not sure where im going wrong, if its my grip on the stick my technique or whatever, as far as the rest of my drumming I can play a lot of stuff in 4/4 fine, I can handle odd time signatures like 3/4 and 5/4, my fills are not particularly imaginative but I don't have much trouble with timing, but I do have a problem sometimes with playing 16th notes at a high bpm which brings me back to the whole rudiment thing, maybe im tensing up, but apart from that im not entirely sure what my problem is
Your post makes it sound like you're done. That's not how this whole music-training thing works. You keep working on it correctly and slowly until you get it - the good news is that you'll never get it - we're all continually working at it. So go back to the drums and keep working on it.
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  #13  
Old 08-11-2012, 08:25 AM
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Default Re: my rudiments suck, have I missed out the fundemental part of being a drummer?

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Originally Posted by Bo Eder View Post
Your post makes it sound like you're done. That's not how this whole music-training thing works. You keep working on it correctly and slowly until you get it - the good news is that you'll never get it - we're all continually working at it. So go back to the drums and keep working on it.
Let me say, from the bottom of my heart, AMEN to this!!!
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  #14  
Old 08-11-2012, 09:46 PM
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Default Re: my rudiments suck, have I missed out the fundemental part of being a drummer?

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Originally Posted by dmacc View Post
+1

In addition to MAD's great advice, I'll add to part of your question of "missing out on the fundamental part of being a drummer" Yes or no - it depends.

The fundamental part of being a drummer is to play with a great time feel to best support the music you are playing and the people you are playing with. This has nothing to do with executing rudiments at any given speed.

Rudiments / speed / technique in my opinion are nothing more than a means to an end. The "end", being able to play more fluently with greater ease and less tension - all should be with the goal of musicianship within the context of the situation you are in which varies from style to style.

If you want to develop better technique which sometimes accommodates more speed which may be one of your current goals, then a good teacher may be the fastest way to accomplish this.
All of the above.

Plus. If you are unhappy with your drumming then there is something wrong. If you are happy with your band playing then you are fine. Rudiments are merely drills. If you play well, and enjoy what you do, then who cares if you can play any rudiments?

If you are not pleased with the way you play check with a teacher.
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  #15  
Old 08-11-2012, 11:47 PM
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Default Re: my rudiments suck, have I missed out the fundemental part of being a drummer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ycpmusicman91 View Post
I have been using the book Rudimental Logic by Bill Bachman for about 5 years now. It's a book meant for marching snare technique but I've adapted it to meet my needs for marching, concert, drum set, and lately I've even been adapting it to my hand percussion technique as well. My rudiments have never been better, and are continuing to grow and become cleaner each and ever day. I've used the book so much that it's completely held together by scotch tape at this point. I should probably buy a new copy at some point. . .but I have so many notes and markings in that book, that it's hard to imagine parting with it!
Hey there, I'm glad to hear that the book is serving you well! It does have marching drums on the cover, but everything in it is universal, good hands are good hands.

You'll also love my new book Stick Technique published through Modern Drummer. Where Rudimental Logic focuses on tons of rudiments as it develops well rounded hands, Stick Technique uses fewer rudiments as it takes you on the quickest path to complete and well rounded hand technique.

And no, it's never too late to develop good hands and it'll pay off bigtime in the musicality, feel, vocabulary and flow in your drumset playing. Most people who work really hard on their hands work them the wrong way and never get the results they're looking for. And watching a video (even if it has good information) certainly does mean that you're applying the information the right way. You have to work smarter more than harder. I do lessons over Skype and have parted the clouds for many players allowing them to get way better way faster. Let me know if you're interested!
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  #16  
Old 08-12-2012, 12:09 AM
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Default Re: my rudiments suck, have I missed out the fundemental part of being a drummer?

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Originally Posted by ycpmusicman91 View Post
I have been using the book Rudimental Logic by Bill Bachman for about 5 years now. It's a book meant for marching snare technique but I've adapted it to meet my needs for marching, concert, drum set, and lately I've even been adapting it to my hand percussion technique as well. My rudiments have never been better, and are continuing to grow and become cleaner each and ever day. I've used the book so much that it's completely held together by scotch tape at this point. I should probably buy a new copy at some point. . .but I have so many notes and markings in that book, that it's hard to imagine parting with it!
I'm the same way with Stick Control. Held together with tape. The first six lessons are especially dirty because that's where I spent most of my time.
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  #17  
Old 08-12-2012, 12:25 AM
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Default Re: my rudiments suck, have I missed out the fundemental part of being a drummer?

Everything is a single or a double. Learning all the combinations is overrated. Just make stuff up and groove ***********.

Last edited by DogBreath; 08-15-2012 at 04:25 AM. Reason: Offensive language
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  #18  
Old 08-12-2012, 12:38 AM
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Default Re: my rudiments suck, have I missed out the fundemental part of being a drummer?

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Originally Posted by plangentmusic View Post
Everything is a single or a double. Learning all the combinations is overrated. Just make stuff up and groove ***********.
But that's simply not true, not anywhere close.

To all the young drummers reading this: what he's saying just isn't so.
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Last edited by DogBreath; 08-15-2012 at 04:25 AM. Reason: Offensive language
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  #19  
Old 08-12-2012, 01:29 AM
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Default Re: my rudiments suck, have I missed out the fundemental part of being a drummer?

You can play for a lifetime without bothering to work on rudiments. It's been done before and it'll continue to be done in the future (although the simple fact is, that drummers who claim no working knowledge of rudiments are actually employing at least some of them anyway....they just don't realise they are).

BUT, if you ever feel that your current approach is prone to some limitations.....that you can't quite express the rhythms you hear in your head on the drum kit, then working on rudiments is a sure fire remedy towards being able to expand your musical vocabulary.
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Old 08-12-2012, 05:38 AM
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Default Re: my rudiments suck, have I missed out the fundemental part of being a drummer?

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But that's simply not true, not anywhere close.

To all the young drummers reading this: what he's saying just isn't so.
So tell me ---when do you do anything more than a single or a double? I think you're just not comprehending what I'm saying.

In the future, if you have a different point of view -- state it, but these emphatic retorts that just makes you look more and more foolish.
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  #21  
Old 08-12-2012, 06:13 AM
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Default Re: my rudiments suck, have I missed out the fundemental part of being a drummer?

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Originally Posted by plangentmusic View Post
Everything is a single or a double. Learning all the combinations is overrated. Just make stuff up and groove ***********.
just for reference....and for the sake of argument .....for the past couple days I have been talking to Steve Smith, Dave Weckl, Peter Erskine, Will Kennedy, and Keith Carlock about this.....just to get their opinion
and every one of them highly highly disagrees with you......very strongly actually

....just saying

Last edited by DogBreath; 08-15-2012 at 04:26 AM. Reason: Offensive language
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  #22  
Old 08-12-2012, 10:41 AM
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Default Re: my rudiments suck, have I missed out the fundemental part of being a drummer?

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Originally Posted by plangentmusic View Post
Everything is a single or a double. Learning all the combinations is overrated. Just make stuff up and groove.......
That kind of thinking is unconventional and will get you into a lot of trouble. You must be taught to copy and repeat what has already been tried and true methods.

....just saying
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  #23  
Old 08-12-2012, 02:03 PM
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Default Re: my rudiments suck, have I missed out the fundemental part of being a drummer?

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Originally Posted by Midnite Zephyr View Post
That kind of thinking is unconventional and will get you into a lot of trouble. You must be taught to copy and repeat what has already been tried and true methods.

....just saying
unconventional is not the case here

unconventional is a good thing

completely consciously avoiding something that can only benefit you and add to your creativity and enhance your vocabulary is not in any drummers best interest

these rudiments are a code.......we should all try to apply this code not only the way that those before us have but try to decipher new ways

it's a guide line .....endless combination possibilities simply to help you get from point A to point B

what you do with them and how you disguise them .....sometimes even unconsciously ......is part of the fun of this journey
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  #24  
Old 08-12-2012, 07:16 PM
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Default Re: my rudiments suck, have I missed out the fundemental part of being a drummer?

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Originally Posted by Gvdadrummasum View Post
unconventional is not the case here

unconventional is a good thing

completely consciously avoiding something that can only benefit you and add to your creativity and enhance your vocabulary is not in any drummers best interest

these rudiments are a code.......we should all try to apply this code not only the way that those before us have but try to decipher new ways

it's a guide line .....endless combination possibilities simply to help you get from point A to point B

what you do with them and how you disguise them .....sometimes even unconsciously ......is part of the fun of this journey
I wish somebody would have told me this stuff 20 years ago. After I spend about 15 minutes with a book, my mind tends to wander and I just start making up my own stuff by putting combinations together.
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Old 08-12-2012, 07:24 PM
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Default Re: my rudiments suck, have I missed out the fundemental part of being a drummer?

Rudiments are something that you'll use for the rest of your life. It's true that advanced rudiments can aid you in fills because you play the patterns between different parts of the kit and it sounds nice. But the main importance of rudiments is to build hand coordination, speed, strength, and endurance.

That being said: as long as you work your rudiments reguarly, put your best effort into them, and above all, work them to a metronome, you're fine. I have difficulty with a steady single stroke roll at high speeds unless I'm playing live and I've got the adrenaline pumpin'. The rest of the time I just cheat and use a buzz roll.
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Old 08-12-2012, 07:46 PM
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Default Re: my rudiments suck, have I missed out the fundemental part of being a drummer?

I practice rudiments regularly, cos that's what I want to do, but I would never say to another drummer, experienced or not, "You must practice rudiments" To each there own way.

The drummer I would be preaching to might just come up with something new, or already be a superb drummer without formally playing a single rudiment. Music is an art, after all.
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Old 08-12-2012, 07:54 PM
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Default Re: my rudiments suck, have I missed out the fundemental part of being a drummer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gvdadrummasum View Post
unconventional is not the case here

unconventional is a good thing

completely consciously avoiding something that can only benefit you and add to your creativity and enhance your vocabulary is not in any drummers best interest

these rudiments are a code.......we should all try to apply this code not only the way that those before us have but try to decipher new ways

it's a guide line .....endless combination possibilities simply to help you get from point A to point B

what you do with them and how you disguise them .....sometimes even unconsciously ......is part of the fun of this journey
I agree with this. The whole point of learning the rudiments is so you acquire the facility so you CAN just invent stuff on the spot. That's the goal.

But if that's how you practice, then you're going to be limited by what you know, or whatever combinations of "singles and doubles" you happen to make up on your own. You need to work on the things you don't know, patterns you may never think of, accent and hand-to-hand combinations that are anything BUT obvious or natural-feeling, to really maximize your development. This way, you're training your hands to deal with the unexpected and unconventional.

With those things in your toolkit, look out. You may be inspired to find new phrases and at the same time you'll find it easier to execute whatever idea comes into your head without having to think about how.
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Old 08-12-2012, 08:38 PM
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Default Re: my rudiments suck, have I missed out the fundemental part of being a drummer?

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Originally Posted by plangentmusic View Post
Everything is a single or a double. Learning all the combinations is overrated.
I don't know why people who advocate this approach always forget to mention the multiple bounce stroke, the down stroke, the up stroke, and who knows what else I'm not thinking of because I don't think in these terms. Regardless of how the stuff breaks down on analysis, your body is what has to execute the music, and it doesn't know you just algebra-ed out of existence most of the specifics of how to assemble a drumming performance. If you only give it a couple of ways to make, say, triplets at 208, that's all you're going to get out of it.

Quote:
Just make stuff up and groove ***********.
Well, yeah, but stuff doesn't just come out of nowhere. You don't have to know all the combinations-- if that were even possible-- but you do have to have some things under your hands.
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Last edited by DogBreath; 08-15-2012 at 04:27 AM. Reason: Offensive language
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  #29  
Old 08-12-2012, 10:06 PM
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Default Re: my rudiments suck, have I missed out the fundemental part of being a drummer?

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Originally Posted by Gvdadrummasum View Post
just for reference....and for the sake of argument .....for the past couple days I have been talking to Steve Smith, Dave Weckl, Peter Erskine, Will Kennedy, and Keith Carlock about this.....just to get their opinion
and every one of them highly highly disagrees with you......very strongly actually

....just saying
I don't doubt it. It's PC to emphasize rudiments. But I found after a while it got in the way. I was damn good at rudiments and I had to break away from those stickings and think creatively. I actually think Weckle and Erskine sound a little too rudamental at times. Buddy was a monster at rudemental drumming and he said the only rudiment he knew was the paradiddle. So...just sayin' back. : )
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Old 08-12-2012, 10:11 PM
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Default Re: my rudiments suck, have I missed out the fundemental part of being a drummer?

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Originally Posted by toddbishop View Post
I don't know why people who advocate this approach always forget to mention the multiple bounce stroke, the down stroke, the up stroke, and who knows what else I'm not thinking of because I don't think in these terms. Regardless of how the stuff breaks down on analysis, your body is what has to execute the music, and it doesn't know you just algebra-ed out of existence most of the specifics of how to assemble a drumming performance. If you only give it a couple of ways to make, say, triplets at 208, that's all you're going to get out of it.



Well, yeah, but stuff doesn't just come out of nowhere. You don't have to know all the combinations-- if that were even possible-- but you do have to have some things under your hands.

It sure doesn't come from the Stick Control book. There are lots of march drummers who can't groove to save their lives and couldn't swing if they were hanging from a rope. B.J. Wilson and Jim Capaldi were tremendously creative yet couldn;t tell you what ratamacue was. Elvin wasn't big on rudiments. That stuff was for marching drummers.

I'm not saying you shouldn't study them at all. But I don;t think becoming really skilled at rudiments is as important as feel, time, sound, touch,creativity, etc.
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  #31  
Old 08-12-2012, 11:25 PM
toddbishop toddbishop is offline
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Default Re: my rudiments suck, have I missed out the fundemental part of being a drummer?

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Originally Posted by plangentmusic View Post
It sure doesn't come from the Stick Control book.
Nobody said it did. That doesn't mean it doesn't have value, or whatever it is you're trying to say.

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Elvin wasn't big on rudiments.
A wisely squishy way of phrasing that-- Elvin of course was in marching band early in his drumming life and is known to have worked through Wilcoxon's books, which of course are nothing but rudiments.

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That stuff was for marching drummers.
That's your opinion-- please don't assign it to Elvin or anyone else unless you have some evidence that they believed that.

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I'm not saying you shouldn't study them at all. But I don;t think becoming really skilled at rudiments is as important as feel, time, sound, touch,creativity, etc.
Of course. The question is not whether they are the most important thing, the question is whether this guy should take a minute to go back and learn them.
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  #32  
Old 08-13-2012, 03:33 AM
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Default Re: my rudiments suck, have I missed out the fundemental part of being a drummer?

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Nobody said it did. That doesn't mean it doesn't have value, or whatever it is you're trying to say.
...........................

I never said it didn't have value. Now we're off somewhere else.



...................

A wisely squishy way of phrasing that-- Elvin of course was in marching band early in his drumming life and is known to have worked through Wilcoxon's books, which of course are nothing but rudiments.

.................

Everybody did those books, but it's not real evident in Elvins playing. And every drummer played in marching band in HS. In the time I studied with him he never once said anything about rudiements.



.........................

That's your opinion-- please don't assign it to Elvin or anyone else unless you have some evidence that they believed that.

................

I do. I just stated it.


...................


Of course. The question is not whether they are the most important thing, the question is whether this guy should take a minute to go back and learn them.

...............

Oh, in that case, sure. Why not. But my point remains and I believe it's valid.
Learning is never a bad thing. But too many people get caught up with rudiments just as too many guitarists get caught up with scales. And they sound it.


Bottom line -- you have to make those patterns musical and rudiment books are mostly either a stagnant rhythm or marches. Not the coolest stuff.
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  #33  
Old 08-13-2012, 03:48 AM
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Chunky Chunky is offline
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Default Re: my rudiments suck, have I missed out the fundemental part of being a drummer?

You could be considered a great drummer without knowing any rudiments really. Aslong as you keep good time and have a good groove I doubt anyone else in the band would care...

It just depends how far you want to take things. Rudiments help you achieve more things, thinking on the fly, certain fills around the kit without crossing sticks or cool sounding grooves.

I wouldn't worry about starting them late, just put the effort in now and you'll probably have the mind to know where and when to use them now.

When I first started playing I was shown a few rudiments on papee and demonstrated slowly this confused me as I never saw rudiments being used properly for a couple of years then I started to panic that I hadn't given them the attention they deserved.

They completely changed my playing, sound, style, phrasing etc. Rudiments are like a musical nuclear weapon. I'd say forget wasted time and just beast them!
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  #34  
Old 08-13-2012, 03:58 AM
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Default Re: my rudiments suck, have I missed out the fundemental part of being a drummer?

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Originally Posted by plangentmusic View Post
Bottom line -- you have to make those patterns musical..........
Couldn't agree more.

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Originally Posted by plangentmusic View Post
.........and rudiment books are mostly either a stagnant rhythm or marches. Not the coolest stuff.
There can be a danger of it sure, but that doesn't mean it's always the case either. That comes down to musicianship (or lack thereof) as opposed to anything inherently wrong with rudiments in their own right.

What about Gadd? Do you reckon the way he applies rudiments is nothing more than stagnant rhythm or marches?
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  #35  
Old 08-13-2012, 04:11 AM
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Default Re: my rudiments suck, have I missed out the fundemental part of being a drummer?

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Originally Posted by Pocket-full-of-gold View Post
Couldn't agree more.



There can be a danger of it sure, but that doesn't mean it's always the case either. That comes down to musicianship (or lack thereof) as opposed to anything inherently wrong with rudiments in their own right.

What about Gadd? Do you reckon the way he applies rudiments is nothing more than stagnant rhythm or marches?
Gadd uses STICKING very creatively. But it's like saying that anyone who ever played a guitar solo used the notes in a scale. Sure but there's a difference between making musci and running scales. And that was my point.
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  #36  
Old 08-13-2012, 04:23 AM
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Default Re: my rudiments suck, have I missed out the fundemental part of being a drummer?

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Originally Posted by plangentmusic View Post
Gadd uses STICKING very creatively.
But that's all rudiments are. A ready made, concise, easy to learn, sticking pattern.

The rest comes down to application and musicality......of that, we are in total agreeance.
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  #37  
Old 08-13-2012, 05:21 AM
Anthony Amodeo
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Default Re: my rudiments suck, have I missed out the fundemental part of being a drummer?

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I don't doubt it. It's PC to emphasize rudiments. But I found after a while it got in the way. I was damn good at rudiments and I had to break away from those stickings and think creatively. I actually think Weckle and Erskine sound a little too rudamental at times. Buddy was a monster at rudemental drumming and he said the only rudiment he knew was the paradiddle. So...just sayin' back. : )
PC huh?

you're on a roll
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  #38  
Old 08-13-2012, 06:09 AM
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noahJT noahJT is offline
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Default Re: my rudiments suck, have I missed out the fundemental part of being a drummer?

The most fundamental part about being a drummer is having fun while hitting things and expressing creativity, so if you've got that you're on the right track.

That being said, practicing rudiments will help you express whatever creativity you do have. Could Michelangelo have been a great artist without the years and years of rigorous training he had? Probably, but no doubt he was able to express what he did through his artwork because of his incredible technical ability.

Even if being a master technician isn't your style, it's still good to work on rudiments. They'll help get you in tip-top drumming shape and the stickings will most likely influence your creativity of well. To go with the art comparisons again, Jackson Pollack clearly didn't use any crazy technique in his works but even he went to art school and studied!

bottom line: If being the best drummer you can be is important to you, regardless of style, then study yo rudiments and other techniques!
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  #39  
Old 08-13-2012, 06:09 AM
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Default Re: my rudiments suck, have I missed out the fundemental part of being a drummer?

Well i wouldnt say your rudiments stink because you cant play them at a faster speed. I always say that speed is the by product. Learning how to play the rudiments correctly is most important. Speed will come with time and practice. You aren't doing anything wrong, just keep practicing and the speed will follow.
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  #40  
Old 08-13-2012, 06:16 AM
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Default Re: my rudiments suck, have I missed out the fundemental part of being a drummer?

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Originally Posted by Gvdadrummasum View Post
PC huh?

you're on a roll
Well, PC in that if you're an educator you tend to stress the fundamentals and most probably spent a lot of time on them as well. I would have defended it as well years back since I sent so much time doing it. I have some distance from it. I can comfortably say what would have been a better use of my practice time.

But think about it...all stickings are singles or doubles. Knowing a million combinations does not change the fact it's still singles and doubles.
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