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  #1  
Old 09-07-2011, 03:38 AM
cooldrummer95 cooldrummer95 is offline
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Default studio set?

so, my band is recording this weekend and it just now occurred to me that the place we are recording at said to just bring my cymbals and pedals.....i am bringing my hi-hat stand just for convenience. but the thing i am now worried about is the drum tone. i would rather have my drums on the recording, i am for sure bringing my snare just because it is like MY sound.....and the bass drum will be triggered so it doesnt really matter.....but my tom sound worries me a bit....i have my tom tuned to be big and boomy and such, and im worried that the supplied tom will sound like cardboard.

is this something to worry over?
should i just bring my stuff and be like "eff off!"?
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  #2  
Old 09-07-2011, 03:43 AM
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bobdadruma bobdadruma is offline
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Default Re: studio set?

Bring your snare, cymbals, and pedals.
The engineer will work with you to set up your sound the way that you want it.
Get there as early as possible to set up and get comfortable.
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  #3  
Old 09-07-2011, 03:45 AM
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Default Re: studio set?

You can always bring your tom and leave them in the car if you don't need them.
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  #4  
Old 09-07-2011, 03:50 AM
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Bo Eder Bo Eder is offline
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Default Re: studio set?

It depends. The engineers might already have everything dialed in for the quickest way possible to get a good sound. If you show up with a bunch of stuff they didn't ask you for and they decide to try it, they're wasting valuable time getting you to sound good. Recording kits are sometimes very different from your live set.

The one story I recall is when Jim Keltner was called in to play on the Steely Dan track, Josie. He shows up and there's this funky blue vistalite snare he had to play. He thought it was weird, but the track came out great (probably more due to his tasteful playing too). So there's a great player who plays what's there and nails it.
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  #5  
Old 09-07-2011, 03:53 AM
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Pocket-full-of-gold Pocket-full-of-gold is offline
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Default Re: studio set?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cooldrummer95 View Post
should i just bring my stuff and be like "eff off!"?
You can do as you please mate. But it's unlikely to make for a harmonious session and won't set you in good stead with the engineer or producer (if there is one).

Remember, these guys do this for a living. They're pretty good at being able to pull sounds out of a kit they're familiar with. I'm sure your favoured drum sounds won't be too hard to achieve. They're requesting you use the studio kit for a reason.....purely because they know it, they know how to best record it and it saves them half a day doing nothing more than getting drum sounds from your kit. Studio time ain't cheap. The quicker you're set, the quicker you can get on to the important stuff i.e. tracking your band.

Let 'em do their job.
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  #6  
Old 09-07-2011, 03:59 AM
UOVDrummer79 UOVDrummer79 is offline
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Default Re: studio set?

Listen to some of their previous recordings and you'll know what their drum sound is like. If you're not happy with it make sure you tell them. Remember that once your tracks are laid down you with have to live with it FOREVERRRRRRR! I've been rushed in the studio before and can't even stand to listen to the recordings because I wasn't happy with my sound and a couple times because I was rushed by my band mates and settled for some tracks that I had made mistakes on or hadn't phrased things the way I would have liked. Also remember that you will be paying the studio so you are the boss. They won't want your album to sound like crap because it will be a representation of their studio but ultimately you are the one that has to be pleased.
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  #7  
Old 09-07-2011, 10:42 AM
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Bo Eder Bo Eder is offline
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Default Re: studio set?

Why don't the other guys just track with a drum machine for now, and then give you the .wav files and then you can record your own drums with ProTools later in your studio? You can then overdub like the rest of the adults ;)

I stand sort of corrected. If you're paying the studio time, then of course you should be given the choice of what gear you use. But getting a good sound will take time, but if you guys are footing the bill....

But I think it would be interesting if you tracked the drums last. Use the drum machine for the other guys first, and then you come in later. That would be cool. I understand the Police did alot of that on Synchronicity.
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  #8  
Old 09-07-2011, 11:23 AM
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harryconway harryconway is offline
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Default Re: studio set?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cooldrummer95 View Post
is this something to worry over?
no...
Quote:
Originally Posted by cooldrummer95 View Post
should i just bring my stuff and be like "eff off!"?
probably not a good idea ... your "profile" says your 16 .... and 16 year olds telling people who own and operate recording studio's to "eff off" ... not the best way to break the ice ...
Too many "unknowns" ... What kind of set do you have? Snare?
What kind of kit is at the studio? Who's paying for the recording session?
Many, many studio's have very nice, very expensive studio kits .... I'd follow the instructions given ... bring pedals and cymbals ...
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  #9  
Old 09-07-2011, 06:35 PM
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bermuda bermuda is offline
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Default Re: studio set?

As mentioned, studios that have a kit set up already have it eq'd the way it sounds good for the average track. This makes the tracking process go faster with less aggravation for the engineer, and less cost for the client. Some drum sounds take hours, and those hours cost money. If most of that work is already done, it's attractive for everyone, including the drummer, who doesn't have to haul in a bunch of gear (which disrupts the existing kit and mics.)

Your own cymbals and kick pedal are a must, and it couldn't hurt to bring your favorite snare, unless the studio happens to have a choice of snares as well.

If the studio is recording to ProTools - and I'd say that 99% of them are - the existing drum sounds can easily be replaced with samples later, achieving sounds you'd probably never get with your own drums anyway. In fact, their kit maye be tuned and muffled specifically to get the cleanest hits up front, so they can be replaced later. Couldn't they just use V-drums for that? Yeah, but that's not most drummers' first choice for the best playing experience.

I've done some sessions where I used the house kit, and always with great results.

Bermuda
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  #10  
Old 09-08-2011, 05:02 AM
cooldrummer95 cooldrummer95 is offline
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Default Re: studio set?

okay, thanks for the advice....i think i am just going to bring my tom, and if the one there sounds horrible, then ask if i can use mine.
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  #11  
Old 09-08-2011, 05:18 AM
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Default Re: studio set?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cooldrummer95 View Post
okay, thanks for the advice....i think i am just going to bring my tom, and if the one there sounds horrible, then ask if i can use mine.
I'm confused? Why are you so worried about the tom? I'm sure that the engineer can make the toms sound good!
Just keep your mind open, Listen to the engineer, Work with him, and learn.
Your first time in a recording studio should be a learning experience.
Don't be afraid to ask questions. There are reasons why things in a studio are done the way that they are.
Relax and have fun with the project, Don't worry so much about the sound. Just lay down your part.
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  #12  
Old 09-08-2011, 05:42 AM
cooldrummer95 cooldrummer95 is offline
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Default Re: studio set?

i just am nit picky about the tom sound...i only use one tom and i want it to be big and boomy..

but, i do think my live tom sound with it unmiced is too boomy for close micing....
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  #13  
Old 09-08-2011, 07:17 AM
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Pocket-full-of-gold Pocket-full-of-gold is offline
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Default Re: studio set?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cooldrummer95 View Post
but, i do think my live tom sound with it unmiced is too boomy for close micing....
So where does the concern come from? If you don't think your tom will sound any good when recorded via close micing, why question professional engineers that are 'more or less' guaranteeing that their studio kit will? I don't understand mate.

Last edited by Pocket-full-of-gold; 09-08-2011 at 07:32 AM. Reason: typo's galore
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  #14  
Old 09-09-2011, 12:23 AM
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Default Re: studio set?

I went to a studio once with a house kit. The drums sounded good, but one of the songs we were doing was a slow ballad. The snare was really tight and dry. The engineer said it was no problem because he could replace the snare sound. I had never done that but I thought it would be cool so I went along with it. During mix down, he tells me that he can't replace the snare because I had too many ghost notes and fills on the snare. He never mentioned that during the recording. He would have to replace my backbeats one by one and that would take up too much time. We did what we could with EQ but we ended up with a ballad with a funk snare.
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  #15  
Old 09-09-2011, 08:42 AM
UOVDrummer79 UOVDrummer79 is offline
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Default Re: studio set?

Yeah playing on a new kit in a new environment will prove to be a challenge. Ask them if you can jam on the set and get used to the sound of the kit for an hour or two before you start on the clock. If you really want to hear how your toms will sound on "tape" then pay the man for his time and do it. Put some new heads on them and tune them and you should be good.
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  #16  
Old 09-09-2011, 09:04 PM
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diegobxr diegobxr is offline
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Default Re: studio set?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrumDoug View Post
I went to a studio once with a house kit. The drums sounded good, but one of the songs we were doing was a slow ballad. The snare was really tight and dry. The engineer said it was no problem because he could replace the snare sound. I had never done that but I thought it would be cool so I went along with it. During mix down, he tells me that he can't replace the snare because I had too many ghost notes and fills on the snare. He never mentioned that during the recording. He would have to replace my backbeats one by one and that would take up too much time. We did what we could with EQ but we ended up with a ballad with a funk snare.
OUCH. Not cool at all. :/

Lesson learned: Always take your own snare.
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  #17  
Old 09-09-2011, 09:56 PM
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Default Re: studio set?

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Originally Posted by diegobxr View Post
OUCH. Not cool at all. :/

Lesson learned: Always take your own snare.
That's a funny story regardless! Like Steve Jordan playing the Funky Drummer all over Bette Midler's The Rose. Hahahaha!
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  #18  
Old 09-09-2011, 10:46 PM
AudioWonderland AudioWonderland is offline
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Default Re: studio set?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bermuda View Post

If the studio is recording to ProTools - and I'd say that 99% of them are - the existing drum sounds can easily be replaced with samples later, achieving sounds you'd probably never get with your own drums anyway. In fact, their kit maye be tuned and muffled specifically to get the cleanest hits up front, so they can be replaced later. Couldn't they just use V-drums for that? Yeah, but that's not most drummers' first choice for the best playing experience.


Bermuda
I have a fundamental issue with the concept of just using whatever because they will just sample replace it later. When did drummers decide it was OK to be treated like second class citizens and defer to others to manipulate our instrument and performance as they see fit? Its pure laziness and/or lack of talent behind the glass if they can't make a reasonably tuned and maintained kit sound good and just defer to the stock slate sample they use on everything that comes in the door.
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  #19  
Old 09-10-2011, 12:04 AM
mediocrefunkybeat
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Default Re: studio set?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cooldrummer95 View Post
i just am nit picky about the tom sound...i only use one tom and i want it to be big and boomy..

but, i do think my live tom sound with it unmiced is too boomy for close micing....
So what you're saying is that you - having never been in a studio before - think you know better than a person that has been working there for years and has actually studied what they're doing?

You're basing this purely from speculation. You actually don't know what you're talking about. Tom sounds will come from multiple positions, one of which is close.
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Old 09-11-2011, 01:18 PM
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last man to bat last man to bat is offline
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Default Re: studio set?

All the advice re. going with the studio kit is good advice apart from one thing that niggles me. I put a lot of time and effort into choosing my kit when I purchased it and then tuning it, trying various heads etc. Why bother with this if the recording engineer is going to replace all the sounds anyway, I might as well be playing cardboard boxes. Is my kit supposed to just look good, or is it it supposed to sound good?

I don't think I would ever be happy listening back to my recordings knowing it was not the sound of my kit. Part of what I enjoy about drumming is the messing around with the tuning etc, if I am paying for studio time I would want studio to reproduce the sound of my kit. If this is not possible then I would be looking around for another studio.

I understand other's thinking on this, if I were a session drummer or if I was being paid to go into the studio, then it is a different matter for me, I would do whatever the producer asked, of course, the sound would not bother me as much. But as I play in an originals band, I very much have a say in how I want things to sound, and as such would not be happy using another kit because it saves a few hours and is easier for the recording engineer.

I must say that I have not come across this before, it has never been an issue using my own kit.

The point I'm trying to make is, this is something I love, am passionate about, it saddens me to think that how I feel counts for nothing in this era of pro tools. My drumming is one of the few things in life that I have a say about, that is supposed to be fun, not just a recording engineer's problem for him/her to fix with the aid of replacement.

It might well be, cooldrummer, that the sound the engineer gets for you is better than the sound of your kit, your kit might sound terrible in comparison, but ultimately it is your call as you are the one forking out the money. Your job is not to make the recording engineer's life easy, he's working for you. But at the same time he will have lots of experience and reasons for doing things his way, listen to them, discuss your concerns with him and come to a decision based on your conversation with him.
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Old 09-11-2011, 01:27 PM
mediocrefunkybeat
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Default Re: studio set?

Quote:
It might well be, cooldrummer, that the sound the engineer gets for you is better than the sound of your kit, your kit might sound terrible in comparison, but ultimately it is your call as you are the one forking out the money. Your job is not to make the recording engineer's life easy, he's working for you. But at the same time he will have lots of experience and reasons for doing things his way, listen to them, discuss your concerns with him and come to a decision based on your conversation with him.
And that's what it comes down to in this situation. You need to have a discussion with the sound engineer and you need to trust him.

I've been on both sides of the desk and I can tell you that the worst thing is having a drummer that doesn't communicate or trust you. If somebody isn't happy then you need to discuss it. Just remember that the engineer is actually there to help you otherwise you'd be doing the engineering yourself. Approaching the engineer with suspicion is not the way to do this. You need to talk about what you want before you even think about setting up in the room. If the engineer can't do that - for whatever reason - then you need to ask why and you need to either come to a compromise or find another engineer.

You might also be surprised about what he does. He might come in and start putting tape on your toms. If that happens, he's doing it for a reason. Let him try it. Ultimately we'd all like to be able to record without using tape but actually sometimes it works very well and can sort out problems very quickly. You have to be able to approach what he does with an open mind.

The people that work best with engineers are those that have some knowledge themselves. If you can discuss it in engineering terms then it really helps the engineer get an idea of what you want. It's much harder to work with a drummer that has beliefs about their sound but actually doesn't know anything about capturing it.
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Old 09-11-2011, 01:53 PM
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Default Re: studio set?

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Originally Posted by mediocrefunkybeat View Post
And that's what it comes down to in this situation. You need to have a discussion with the sound engineer and you need to trust him.

I've been on both sides of the desk and I can tell you that the worst thing is having a drummer that doesn't communicate or trust you. If somebody isn't happy then you need to discuss it. Just remember that the engineer is actually there to help you otherwise you'd be doing the engineering yourself. Approaching the engineer with suspicion is not the way to do this. You need to talk about what you want before you even think about setting up in the room. If the engineer can't do that - for whatever reason - then you need to ask why and you need to either come to a compromise or find another engineer.

You might also be surprised about what he does. He might come in and start putting tape on your toms. If that happens, he's doing it for a reason. Let him try it. Ultimately we'd all like to be able to record without using tape but actually sometimes it works very well and can sort out problems very quickly. You have to be able to approach what he does with an open mind.

The people that work best with engineers are those that have some knowledge themselves. If you can discuss it in engineering terms then it really helps the engineer get an idea of what you want. It's much harder to work with a drummer that has beliefs about their sound but actually doesn't know anything about capturing it.
It is so tricky in these situations, because most musicians have little knowledge of the recording limitations, what sounds good in a rehearsal situation may sound terrible once tracked.

It's really important to accept when things aren't going your way, if your kit is sounding bad don't just dig your heels in, accept it and try and find a solution. If that boomy tom is really integral to your band's sound then the engineer needs to know, but if it turns out that the only good thing about your boomy tom is that you like it, then maybe you need to bite the bullet and either tune it or listen to the engineer's suggestions.
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  #23  
Old 09-11-2011, 01:57 PM
mediocrefunkybeat
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Default Re: studio set?

So much of recording is about compromise. Unless you have unlimited time, unlimited resources and the best engineers in the World, you're going to have to compromise somewhere along the line. Learning to do that is a big process and it can take a lot of patience and experience to learn where those compromises can be made.
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  #24  
Old 09-11-2011, 04:17 PM
AudioWonderland AudioWonderland is offline
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Default Re: studio set?

As someone who has experience behind the glass I can tell you that as a player you cannot have blind trust in an engineer either. The reality of life is that with Protools and sample replacement many engineers have quite franky gotten lazy and in a sense a little arrogant. The willingness to work on getting sounds and the skills to get them both started to disappear when they got the ability just replace it later with sounds they think are best. When dealing with bad players and bad kits it may be the correct choice. But unfortunately its just become a standard operating procedure no matter who walks through the door. That I have an issue with.

Work with the engineer. Check out the house kit. Many studios keep a damn nice kit tuned up and ready and using it may make a lot of sense. If its to your liking the extra time means less time setting up and more time tracking. On the other hand if its tuned up for a steely Dan record and your recording a metal track, then discussion needs to happen. Simply sample replacing the house kit isn't going to get it done
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