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  #41  
Old 12-16-2010, 02:45 PM
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Default Re: another topic on the value of music

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That's weird. I know I pasted it on there when I was typing the original message. I've just edited it and put the link in.
Thanks, good stuff, some very true words from master Ellington!
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  #42  
Old 12-16-2010, 02:46 PM
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Default Re: another topic on the value of music

Not much that can be done about that, Tommy. As long as I've been into music there's always been a range of standards, from the wonderful to the abysmal. Each performer or group has to gain people's trust that they can offer an enjoyable, or at least interesting, experience.

If they like the band enough they'll pay for a repeat performance. But if you have the production behind you then it's much easier to create a special experience. I always figured it was just the music but I'm seeing more of how much of a role the extramusical plays in musical appreciation.

The bummer is just how much more heavily people are focusing on the extramusical stuff ... so you get very ordinary singers who can put on great dance shows with a dozen oil-slicked hunk-o-spunks and light shows that just about need their own power station.
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  #43  
Old 12-16-2010, 07:07 PM
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Default Re: another topic on the value of music

When I read the OP, I though that this must be an urban legend; but I did google it and sure enough it's a news event.

Two girls I dated in HS and College respectively were not musicians but we shared musical tastes. They were actually both Rush fans and we would go see Rush together. Later, I dated a girl who was a big Yes fan and she wanted to go see the Union tour and I didn't want to go. People always ask "what kind of a guy dates a girl into prog rock and then doesn't go with her to a show?"

About fifteen years a go, I dated a girl who was not only not a musician but we shared different musical taste. I learned more about musicians from her than from any one else because she always called me on sh%^ for thinking like a musician. I would take her to shows and she would always say you have such eclectic taste, how could any one keep up with you. SO I took her to see Chick Corea and Bobby McFerrin who conducted Dvorak's New World Symphony, a really popular classical piece. She hated it. Then about two months later, we were listening to Dvorak's New World Symphony over dinner and she said, "why don't you ever take me to hear anything like this." I didn't matter what I took her to see, she was never going to get it. Oh, and it was always going to be my fault.
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  #44  
Old 12-16-2010, 07:18 PM
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Default Re: another topic on the value of music

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Two girls I dated in HS and College respectively were not musicians but we shared musical tastes. They were actually both Rush fans and we would go see Rush together. .
Wait a second.....not one, but two females that like Rush????

Impossible!!!! :-P
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  #45  
Old 12-16-2010, 08:36 PM
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Default Re: another topic on the value of music

I'm a member of the King Crimson Fan Club for Women. I once hoped to double the club's membership but I don't expect to find anyone else now ...

I always wanted to see a KC gig ... for once the long queue outside the toilets during intermission wouldn't be my problem ...
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  #46  
Old 12-16-2010, 09:06 PM
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Default Re: another topic on the value of music

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Wait a second.....not one, but two females that like Rush????

Impossible!!!! :-P
You're right! Delta's obviously lying! (j/k Ken)


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Originally Posted by Pollyanna View Post
I'm a member of the King Crimson Fan Club for Women. I once hoped to double the club's membership but I don't expect to find anyone else now ...

I always wanted to see a KC gig ... for once the long queue outside the toilets during intermission wouldn't be my problem ...
I didn't know there was such a thing. I'm so glad I saw them on their Three of a Perfect Pair tour. I've been on a strict diet of Discipline/Beat/Three of a Perfect Pair for the past few weeks. It's breathtaking how well those albums have held up over time.
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  #47  
Old 12-16-2010, 09:07 PM
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Default Re: another topic on the value of music

You're too funny, Pol. I couldn't help you there. You are the only woman I know into King Crimson. I would wonder how much the girls I dated in my youth loved Rush because they knew how much I loved the band. That's when you know you have a keeper.

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If Pablo Picasso had lived in a poor African country rather than in Paris at the centre of the art world being surrounded by glamour and avant-garde artists, would people still have considered him to be a genius? It's a question that doesn't have an answer. You might say people would have recognised his greatness but again, people have missed out on greatness, even when it was handed right to them (the example of Jerzy Kosinsky's bestselling novel 'Steps' ).
Exact same piece; different evaluation.



Andrew Potter's The Authenticity Hoax is a good one too, which deals with the concept overall in the context of modernity.
I'll have to read that book; but yes it's a good point. Authenticity is a basic discussion point in aesthetics, and everyone deals with it. The punkers thought that corporate music wasn't authentic rock and roll, where as prog rockers often quoted classical works to give their music historical authenticity. Conductors struggle with the historical interpretation of a piece, How would this have sounded to Beethoven? as well jazzers talk about what is authentic jazz as opposed to marketed concepts of jazz. Does this music reflect the tradition? You can't escape it.
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  #48  
Old 12-16-2010, 09:43 PM
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Default Re: another topic on the value of music

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I didn't know there was such a thing.
Likewise! I don't geddit. I can't think of another band with such a wonderful sound - right from the get go they produced (IMO) the most amazing band sound you'll ever hear. Agree about the early 80s trilogy - amazing music. I know I've met one other woman into KC but I can't remember who, though. I do remember that she was a muso :)

A woman I used to work with gave me the most withering assessment of prog rock one time - dismissed as being akin to cars, power tools and other childish male obsessions. I didn't have the courage to fess up that I was into it :)

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Originally Posted by Deltadrummer
Authenticity is a basic discussion point in aesthetics, and everyone deals with it. The punkers thought that corporate music wasn't authentic rock and roll, where as prog rockers often quoted classical works to give their music historical authenticity.
Yes. I guess the idea is to remain true to the original impetus and ideals that inspired the music. I find it incongruous to see tutorials on playing punk music. Yet I can see the logic of art that stems from youthful rebelliousness necessarily at some stage having to "grow up". You can't trap art like insects pinned to a board - forever frozen in time. Well, you can, but it means always trying to recapture the feeling of the zeitgeist like an old person reliving the good old days. Hence the existence of tribute bands :)
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  #49  
Old 12-18-2010, 04:08 AM
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Default Re: another topic on the value of music

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Remember, the reason a lot of bands became huge is also because they were hyped and held up as future music icons in the press. They were given an elevated status, and this gives people a reason to pay attention. Music alone doesnít always sell. Itís also about who the band is, their personalities, their story, etc. We also read magazine editors and bloggers raving about them too, which adds to the appeal.

Have you noticed how your own attitude has change towards the value of music and other musicians? And if so, in what way?
Well if you accept bands based on what others say (which most folks seem to do) then your tastes aren't really your own anyway.

I guess I'm one of those weird dudes. Hype doesn't impress me as I'm usually not impressed by the music, performers and songs heavily hyped anyway.

My attitude is simple: I like it or I don't.

I've seen "pros" (as in, dudes that have "made it") and been ".....meh".

But I've seen local bands I've never heard of and been blown away.


The final reality is that there are far more folks that want to make a living in music than those that will support them in a richly-rewarded manner.

Life ain't fair and most folks live their lives based on the expectations of others without critically examining much of anything.

And that's why Katie Pettyboobs and Britney Spears get to be famous while I get to see bands like OHM and the Dixie Dregs play to crowds of less than two dozen.

Sure, it's nice to watch a band from two feet away. But you can't help but wince at the situation if you like to see true talent performed live.
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  #50  
Old 12-18-2010, 04:13 AM
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Default Re: another topic on the value of music

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Originally Posted by Pollyanna View Post
I'm a member of the King Crimson Fan Club for Women. I once hoped to double the club's membership but I don't expect to find anyone else now ...

I always wanted to see a KC gig ... for once the long queue outside the toilets during intermission wouldn't be my problem ...
It's always almost strange to see women at "musician's music" type shows like the G3 tour or Dream Theater and the whatnot.

If I ever found a woman that liked Rush or Steve Vai (or any jazz besides Kenny G-esque "soft jazz"), I'd probably propose on the spot.
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  #51  
Old 12-18-2010, 08:19 PM
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Default Re: another topic on the value of music

I can't speak for every genre of music, but I know a lot of more underground artists really don't care whether they do or don't make money, reviews by online press more often then not garner exposure, which leads to contracts and tours, the money they do make comes from playing live generally. Some bands, such as Opeth and Amorphis, land up making a fair amount of money, twenty years after they have formed.

I think the point, if there is one, is that music isn't a business. If you set out with a band, like a business venture, or as a singer, trying to make a fortune, you may or may not succeed, the latter being far more likely. Music always has to be about the love for music itself, and if you do something for long enough, with enough passion for it, people will start to take notice and then you might find you can live off it.

Perhaps music has become rather mundane, just a part of every day life which a lot of people take for granted, but we obviously all have more then a passing interest in it, so do the countless people that study music and work to create brilliant music. I don't think music will ever die out, not in the way that society no longer views it as important or trivial. Not everyone is the world is going to switch their brains off and swallow what they are told. The cultural significance of music in general is too great.
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Last edited by Frost; 12-19-2010 at 09:35 AM.
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  #52  
Old 12-18-2010, 08:25 PM
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Default Re: another topic on the value of music

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Originally Posted by Pollyanna View Post
I'm a member of the King Crimson Fan Club for Women. I once hoped to double the club's membership but I don't expect to find anyone else now ...

I always wanted to see a KC gig ... for once the long queue outside the toilets during intermission wouldn't be my problem ...
My ex used to listen to KC, probably just because I did, I don't believe she actually liked them, though I do genuinely believe she actually enjoyed my Scorpions albums.
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  #53  
Old 12-19-2010, 02:32 AM
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Default Re: another topic on the value of music

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Originally Posted by Ekim View Post
It's always almost strange to see women at "musician's music" type shows like the G3 tour or Dream Theater and the whatnot.

If I ever found a woman that liked Rush or Steve Vai (or any jazz besides Kenny G-esque "soft jazz"), I'd probably propose on the spot.
Not much keen on Dream Theater, Rush or Steve Via, but I like lots of edgy jazz, Crimson and Jethro Tull (especially their earlier stuff). Does that qualify? heeheehee
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