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  #1  
Old 03-28-2016, 07:56 PM
DrummerCA35 DrummerCA35 is offline
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Default who is supposed to provide the backline drums?

The opening band plays from 7:30-8:30.

Then we play from 8:45-10:00.

There are two sound checks.

It is not practical to have two kits set up, nor to switch sets after they play.

I play an adaptive kit that requires a double pedal and a second closed hihat.

Either I have another drummer pounding on my set, or I pound on his set. I don't like either option. Any money earned won't even cover heads.

Who should provide the drums? Me or him?

This is not a gig Iwanted to do, but I am committed.

Any opinions would be welcome.

Thanks ...

Last edited by GruntersDad; 03-28-2016 at 10:04 PM.
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  #2  
Old 03-28-2016, 08:29 PM
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philrudd philrudd is offline
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Default Re: who is supposed to provide the backline drums?

Only two bands and you can't each use your own kit? I've played multi-band bills where it really WAS impractical for each band to use their own kit, but with only two bands it doesn't seem like such an insurmountable obstacle...

Nevertheless, we'll deal with the problem as you've presented it.

You'll have to talk to the opening drummer and come to some agreement over who's bringing the kit. There's no hard-and-fast rules for these things.

Either way it sounds like you're not going to be thrilled, so you have to decide what's more important: the way you play/sound that particular night, or whether you want someone else feeling up your kit. Use his kit, you might not execute as well or sound as good as you'd like; use yours, and he may do some damage.

Standard operating procedure around here - and most places I've played - is that the drummer not providing a kit still brings his own snare, pedals and cymbals, so any damage would be kept to a minimum. Is the guy playing in the opener a massive basher that could damage your bass drum in a one-hour set?
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Old 03-28-2016, 09:45 PM
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Default Re: who is supposed to provide the backline drums?

Here in the UK it is usually the main band that supplies the kit. I am not too keen on this especially if I am on tour & have several bands going through it every night......
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  #4  
Old 03-28-2016, 10:04 PM
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Default Re: who is supposed to provide the backline drums?

If it seems to be an issue one way to make it easier is just to use his kit and adapt for the hour or so. Play without a second hat for one gig. Take your pedals and not have to worry about setting up and tearing down. Since you aren't to excited to be there anyway, minimize your stress.
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Old 03-28-2016, 10:07 PM
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Default Re: who is supposed to provide the backline drums?

No hard and fast rules - but the third option is that sometimes the festival/venue supplies a kit - but supposing that is not an option here...

It is normal, as others have stated , for each drummer to bring his own sticks, snare, pedal(s), and cymbals. You should have plenty of time to swap that stuff out while the guitar players prepare their rigs.

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  #6  
Old 03-28-2016, 10:09 PM
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Default Re: who is supposed to provide the backline drums?

In general, I would grin & bear it and use the other kit. You'll have ample time between sets to attach your double pedal, and the X-hat if absolutely necessary.

However, since his band is on first, you are also asking him to stick around when perhaps he hadn't intended to, so some compensation is called for.

If it was me, I'd ask nicely and offer $20* for his trouble, which is a small price for not having to worry about my own gear being potentially abused by another drummer.

Bermuda

* If you're in Canada, that's only $14!!
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  #7  
Old 03-28-2016, 10:21 PM
WallyY WallyY is offline
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Default Re: who is supposed to provide the backline drums?

Look online for the other band to see if they're drummer is a basher.


You should offer the kit if you require a convoluted gigging set.
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Old 03-28-2016, 11:40 PM
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Default Re: who is supposed to provide the backline drums?

Seems sort of logical that the guy drumming last that evening should provide the kit - I guess that would be you. But, I like Wally's suggestion that you scope out the other guy's performance standards. If he's a wild basher, you would probably end up the night with dented heads and maybe worse. Barring that, I'd just offer my kit for backline and go with the flow.

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  #9  
Old 03-29-2016, 01:34 AM
calan calan is offline
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Default Re: who is supposed to provide the backline drums?

i don't provide a kit unless i'm specifically paid to do so, but i also have a cottage industry doing backline rental and i won't undervalue that service.

also, i often play originals on multiband bills with 30-45 minute sets and 10-15 minute changeovers. full band changeovers with half stacks and relatively elaborate drum kits, and it's not bad at all if people have their act together.

so what i'm saying is, screw this guy, he can bring his own crap, unless you're somehow getting compensated for the specific service. likewise, if you want to use his stuff, be a good sport and find a way to pony up some money his way.

when people scoff at my rental fees (which i've compared to several other markets and regional suppliers), they're not taking into account the time or effort it takes to pack, transport, set up, tune, or the costs associated with maintenance and transport. if that doesn't have a value to you, or you don't have the resources to purchase that value, then you're on your own as far as i'm concerned.
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  #10  
Old 03-29-2016, 01:58 AM
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Default Re: who is supposed to provide the backline drums?

Seems really simple to me.

If you play last, then you bring the drums.
Minus the snare, cymbals, base drum pedal and throne.
Just mention if you break a drum head it costs $15.00.
Then the drummer will most likely go easy on the bashing.


.
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  #11  
Old 03-29-2016, 02:36 AM
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Default Re: who is supposed to provide the backline drums?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollywood Jim View Post
Seems really simple to me.

If you play last, then you bring the drums.
Minus the snare, cymbals, base drum pedal and throne.
Just mention if you break a drum head it costs $15.00.
Then the drummer will most likely go easy on the bashing.


.
Yeah, there's that....
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  #12  
Old 03-29-2016, 02:50 AM
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Default Re: who is supposed to provide the backline drums?

Set your drums up off the stage and have them ready. Set your amps up first and set theirs up in front of yours. Between sets everyone hauls ass! Get his drums off the stage (he can break down after) and get yours on. Absolutely no setting up or breaking down onstage! It's called a line check and it's what clubs do to accommodate five or six bands per night. Or just use his or let him use yours. I've played somewhere approaching a thousand shows with over a thousand different bands and I honestly have never had all the issues that some of you guys seem to always have.
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  #13  
Old 03-29-2016, 02:54 AM
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Default Re: who is supposed to provide the backline drums?

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Originally Posted by The SunDog View Post
Set your drums up off the stage and have them ready.Between sets everyone hauls ass! Get his drums off the stage (he can break down after) and get yours on.
OR, how big is the stage? Set up both sets of drums. Remove the first set after playing. I've seen this done too.


.
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  #14  
Old 03-29-2016, 03:44 AM
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Default Re: who is supposed to provide the backline drums?

Quote:
Originally Posted by calan View Post
i don't provide a kit unless i'm specifically paid to do so, but i also have a cottage industry doing backline rental

when people scoff at my rental fees (which i've compared to several other markets and regional suppliers), they're not taking into account the time or effort it takes to pack, transport, set up, tune, or the.
just curious what one charges, say for 3 hour gig?
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  #15  
Old 03-29-2016, 05:50 AM
calan calan is offline
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Default Re: who is supposed to provide the backline drums?

Quote:
Originally Posted by opentune View Post
just curious what one charges, say for 3 hour gig?
at risk of thread derailment, prices very much depend on market. I'll stick with drums for the sake of brevity. Nashville, LA, Boston, New York rates are much higher than a mid size college town. Most everywhere charges a flat fee for a day, often doing discounted rates for weekends and longer. Rates are often seperate for shell pack, snare, cymbals, and pedals. Really big backline companies have such a large inventory that they may offer per cymbal/drum rates and you can essentially get whatever you want. More common is a few drum and cymbal packages to choose from, with snare and pedal options. Delivery and pickup fees are separate, and setup might not even be offered, or another charge as well.

I typically charge 50-75 for a full kit depending on the drums and cymbals, including delivery, pickup and setup, for a day, in my local area. I'm not even trying to go outside the area so that's not a concern for me. In a city mentioned above, you would likely pay that in delivery and pickup alone. Also, I'm often working with non profits or festivals with small budgets, and I'll waive delivery/pickup.
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  #16  
Old 03-29-2016, 06:09 AM
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Default Re: who is supposed to provide the backline drums?

I'd send a sub and take the night off ;)
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  #17  
Old 03-29-2016, 10:45 AM
Woolwich Woolwich is offline
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Default Re: who is supposed to provide the backline drums?

The answer "in this case" is that it's probably down to you to provide the kit and ensure that the other drummer fetches his own snare, pedals, cymbals etc.

My genuine answer is found in the fact that I refuse to do multi band gigs nowadays (with the exception of those laid on by one brilliant organiser who provides a kit and takes no prisoners in terms of what he demands from each band). Changeovers CAN be done but as you say in the way that you're having to present this topic it isn't going to happen this time.

The truth is that most kit share gigs go well, however human nature is that we remember the times they didn't go well, and because these can cause a lot of hassle (the guy in a theatre gig who plays a one up one down so insisted on me removing two of my three mounted tom toms, why didn't I tell him just to suck it up?), or be expensive, then I for one do my best just to totally avoid them.
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  #18  
Old 03-29-2016, 11:55 AM
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Default Re: who is supposed to provide the backline drums?

I do a lot of gigs with multi bands...at least two charity gigs per year with sometimes upwards of half a dozen bands.

The answer to your question is that the bands involved act like mature people and come to an agreement.

There is no etiquette in terms of order. If the band on first use their kit then they have to hang around to the end of the gig, but then if the band on second use their kit then they still have to be there from the start of the gig. Which is no hardship because bands should support each other anyway, without the need for practical reasons forcing their hands.

It's taken as read that drums will be hit and damage ill occasionally arise. Again, deal with it like adults. Someone busts a skin well they're obvious going to cough up for it without the need for written or verbal contracts. Unless their dickheads, which other drummers rarely are.
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  #19  
Old 03-29-2016, 02:01 PM
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Default Re: who is supposed to provide the backline drums?

If a venue is putting lots of bands on and charging on the door (money the bands will never see) then they should provide a house kit.

Failing that it's a case of bring your own kit. Way too many shedbuilders disguised as drummers out there who will happily trash your tubs for fun. No chance of getting any money back.

People think you're being funny but would you let someone you've never met drive your car around for half an hour.....same principle and same amount of money involved.
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  #20  
Old 03-29-2016, 04:47 PM
tcspears tcspears is offline
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Default Re: who is supposed to provide the backline drums?

I don't think there's an official rule, but often, the headliner (or whoever is playing last) will provide a kit.

Typically the shows I play don't have an opener, so I just use my own, and if I'm playing on a bill with multiple bands, I try to use my own as well. Though, I use a small kit and only a hi hat and one or two rides, so I'm pretty easy to setup and breakdown.

When I've played with back-line kit, people either offer me $20 or so and ask if they can just play my kit, or another drummer will ask all the other drummers to just play his kit (and we usually kick in some money for them). Again, usually it is the last band that offers up their kit.

If you stage your kit off to the side, 15 minutes should be enough time to bring it over to the stage. If you don't want to backline, then just get there early and pre-setup the kit.
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  #21  
Old 03-29-2016, 08:25 PM
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Default Re: who is supposed to provide the backline drums?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollywood Jim View Post
Seems really simple to me.

If you play last, then you bring the drums.
Minus the snare, cymbals, base drum pedal and throne.
Just mention if you break a drum head it costs $15.00.
Then the drummer will most likely go easy on the bashing.


.
This makes the most sense to me. That and only bring what you NEED that night.
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  #22  
Old 03-29-2016, 08:48 PM
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Default Re: who is supposed to provide the backline drums?

If the guy can trash your drum heads in one hour show or so... you either have super cheap, super thin or super old heads on your kit. Or that guy is playing like the incredible Hulk.


As much as we hate it if you HAVE to use one kit it's normally the last band who supplies it so no one has to stick around. But we should all stick around to support the other bands...
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  #23  
Old 03-29-2016, 09:22 PM
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Default Re: who is supposed to provide the backline drums?

I must just be a different breed, because I never minded letting others play my kit. I like being able to play my own equipment for our band's set, plus I love getting to hear the kitfrom FOH. Not to mention the fact that it's cool to hear how the kit sounds in different musical environments.

The agreement to pay for broken heads seems like a good idea, but I've never had anything broken. Minor dents have been the extent of damages. YMMV
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Old 03-30-2016, 12:40 AM
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Default Re: who is supposed to provide the backline drums?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrummerCA35 View Post
The opening band plays from 7:30-8:30.

Then we play from 8:45-10:00.

There are two sound checks.

It is not practical to have two kits set up, nor to switch sets after they play.

I play an adaptive kit that requires a double pedal and a second closed hihat.

Either I have another drummer pounding on my set, or I pound on his set. I don't like either option. Any money earned won't even cover heads.

Who should provide the drums? Me or him?

This is not a gig Iwanted to do, but I am committed.

Any opinions would be welcome.

Thanks ...


Play the guys set (if he'll let you). This is something you're going to have to get used to sooner or later if you plan on gigging a lot. Minimally do what you can to make it sound better. I would rather tweak a kit than worry about schlepping my own to a gig any day. 75 min? No brainer.
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  #25  
Old 03-30-2016, 02:21 AM
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Default Re: who is supposed to provide the backline drums?

I'd find a way to use both his and your kits, and do exactly like SunDog said. Everyone's happy.

You know the first band will run long. And the drummer will be not nearly fast enough clearing off the stage for your liking. I'd help him get his stuff out of the way, and put up your already perfectly adjusted kit.

I think it's faster doing that than adjusting stuff, that probably doesn't work good anyway. You don't even have to contact him beforehand, since you're going on last. If he shows up with no drums, that's on him. And no you're not letting him use yours under any circumstances.
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  #26  
Old 03-30-2016, 03:59 PM
tcspears tcspears is offline
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Default Re: who is supposed to provide the backline drums?

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Originally Posted by larryace View Post
I'd find a way to use both his and your kits...
Exactly, just combine both kits and make a Neil Peart style mega-kit... problem solved!!

:-)
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  #27  
Old 03-30-2016, 09:16 PM
Otto Otto is offline
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Default Re: who is supposed to provide the backline drums?

IF the 'gig' is worth the exposure and/or $ and your equipment is valuable(you have to set that subjective level) then set up a contract with the person contacting the 'gig' for rental of your equipment...including riders for potential damage and pre/post performance inspection/write-off/what happens if the person renting the equipment does not make the inspections(defaults to the person supplying the equipment).

If they wont contract, I suggest skipping the 'gig'.

If your equipment is low cost, then it might be worth taking on the responsibility to supply the kit...but remember, what you will be expected to do in the future usually is defined by what you do now.

I will NEVER take on the role of supplying instruments...that's not the business I want to be in....and I am not interested in 'gigs' that do not honor what I am doing enough to allow me to use my own Instrument.
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  #28  
Old 03-30-2016, 09:40 PM
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Hollywood Jim Hollywood Jim is offline
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Default Re: who is supposed to provide the backline drums?

Best solution I have found is; I have three drum sets.

One is my vintage Slingerland kit. Only played by me.
One is my new Yamaha Live Custom kit. Only played by me.
One is my Yamaha Stage Custom kit. I love playing this kit and it was also bought for backline use. It was a used kit, I paid $340 for it.
Go ahead beat my Yamaha Stage Custom kit to death. That is what it's for.
When I put new drum heads on my other two kits, I move the used drum heads to my backline kit.


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Old 03-31-2016, 12:26 AM
RIneuron RIneuron is offline
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Default Re: who is supposed to provide the backline drums?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollywood Jim View Post
Best solution I have found is; I have three drum sets.

One is my vintage Slingerland kit. Only played by me.
One is my new Yamaha Live Custom kit. Only played by me.
One is my Yamaha Stage Custom kit. I love playing this kit and it was also bought for backline use. It was a used kit, I paid $340 for it.
Go ahead beat my Yamaha Stage Custom kit to death. That is what it's for.
When I put new drum heads on my other two kits, I move the used drum heads to my backline kit.


.
Brilliant!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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  #30  
Old 03-31-2016, 02:00 AM
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Default Re: who is supposed to provide the backline drums?

Unfortunately up here shared kit gigs are as common as anything. We generally share the kit of the final band playing. While I think even the opening band should stick around for all bands after them at a gig, I know it never happens. Usually venues in this area book one band and expect that band to find someone to open for them. So the band that is booked and headlining the show usually throws in back line to sweeten the deal for the opening band.

I definitely like the idea of having a cheaper, Yamaha Stage Custom or Pearl Export, etc to use for shared gigs to prevent damage to our main kit.
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  #31  
Old 04-01-2016, 04:25 PM
DrummerCA35 DrummerCA35 is offline
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Default Re: who is supposed to provide the backline drums?

Guys,

Thanks for all of the posts and suggestions. I ended up bringing my own drums, as did other guy. It turns out that he and I have played with a bunch of the same musicians/bands, and he's also one of the nicest guys in the world. I couldn't use his drums, because he needed to leave after his set (but otherwise, he said that would have been fine). He didn't want to use mine, because he had just bought a kit he was looking forward to trying out. He was a great drummer. After his set, he actually helped me load my drums up onto the stage. I had the drums out of their bags, and the stands all set up before getting them on stage. They did a quick sound check on my kit. Not only that, he offered to help me load my drums from the car to the holding area. He was a class act all the way.

After having done this, I see advantages all around, and I think if I do this again (not that I want to) I would offer up the use of my drums if I was the last band. If I was the first band, maybe ask to use the other guy's kit and offer up the $20 (which I doubt they'd accept, but still a really cool gesture.) I don't think there is any "right/wrong" with all this.

Thanks again for all the posts.

Aaron
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