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  #1  
Old 06-07-2014, 04:23 AM
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Default Why is it so hard for the band to follow me?!?!

So my worship leader makes me play along to a metronome live during rehearsals and services... Which I have no problem with since I only ever practice at home along to a met.. But there's just one problem...

The band doesn't know how to follow a drummer!

Ugh it drives me insane! Usually I just count off to the beat then turn the darn thing off ASAP because its so difficult... But sometimes I actually try to keep time by playing along to the met for as much of the tune as possible but it is soo hard.

The worship leader always tells me the band will follow my time-the metronome's time- but I usually lose everyone by the first chorus and by that time I have no choice but to shut it off and follow the leader/rest of the band..

Which I have no problem with except for the fact that after each tempo-challenging go at a tune the leader looks at me and says "we sped up/slowed down here" at the exact spot where they all took off from my time.

Bottom line, it's really hard to play along to a click when the band doesnt follow you xD lol... I'm sure all of you have dealt wiht this at some time or another, but I just needed to blow off some steam xD
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  #2  
Old 06-07-2014, 04:42 AM
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Default Re: Why is it so hard for the band to follow me?!?!

In rehearsal only: stick to the metronome and eventually everyone will hear the problem and learn to follow you.
That's worked for me.
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  #3  
Old 06-07-2014, 05:01 AM
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Default Re: Why is it so hard for the band to follow me?!?!

Well, you're in a shit band.

Leave.
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Old 06-07-2014, 05:35 AM
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Default Re: Why is it so hard for the band to follow me?!?!

It's not that they won't follow time, its that they can't comprehend playing with a set time.
If you've ever recorded with a click and found that you need to stop every take to remove the click out of each players phones until they only hear the drummer (who still has the click in his phones), you will understand that some players just can't play with a click. It screws them up.
When they get loose, they force the tempo and it wreaks havoc with the timing.
When there are too many overdubs, the drums which initially had a good feel, sound held back.
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  #5  
Old 06-07-2014, 05:48 AM
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Default Re: Why is it so hard for the band to follow me?!?!

I kind of agree with your leader guy. If you keep steady time and practice together a lot eventually the others will learn to follow you. It might take months though.
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  #6  
Old 06-07-2014, 05:49 AM
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Default Re: Why is it so hard for the band to follow me?!?!

At the next rehearsal amplify the metronome. Make it really loud. Maybe using the microphone.
Donít play the drums. See if they can play the whole song with the metronome.

Besides if you were hitting 2 and 4 on the snare drum through the whole song it would be just like the metronome.


I like Dre25's comment......... LOL

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  #7  
Old 06-07-2014, 05:58 AM
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Default Re: Why is it so hard for the band to follow me?!?!

I've found that it works best when the drummer plays to the click, and the rest of the band follows the drummer, no click. Why some musicians have so much trouble with the click, I don't know. Most can follow a drummer well enough though.
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  #8  
Old 06-07-2014, 06:04 AM
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Default Re: Why is it so hard for the band to follow me?!?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dre25 View Post
Well, you're in a shit band.

Leave.
LOL

I wouldn't go as far as saying that xD


Individually everyone can play at least decent if not very well...

But I dunno they just can't play along to a drummer's time lol
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  #9  
Old 06-07-2014, 06:44 AM
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Default Re: Why is it so hard for the band to follow me?!?!

I can't even imagine playing with people who have these kinds of problems. haha!

Of course, this is coming from somebody who has never had to play to click. I can play to a track though, and I'd imagine they are playing to a click or something like that.
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  #10  
Old 06-07-2014, 07:20 AM
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Default Re: Why is it so hard for the band to follow me?!?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by (Future)DWdrummer View Post
LOL

I wouldn't go as far as saying that xD


Individually everyone can play at least decent if not very well...

But I dunno they just can't play along to a drummer's time lol
The only thing I can think of in defense of your band/leader is maybe you're rushing a certain fill or something and the rest of the band is running with it. You should really look at yourself, even when I know I'm probably right, I still take criticism on board.

But if you're right and your band leader is wrong then maybe just switch the click off and forget about it, or leave. I have been there, I chose to leave.
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  #11  
Old 06-07-2014, 08:19 AM
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Default Re: Why is it so hard for the band to follow me?!?!

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Originally Posted by Dre25 View Post
Well, you're in a shit band.

Leave.
This.

If it's frustrating for you, leave. It's not worth it. It kind of sounds as if you're the scapegoat, or you're letting them walk all over you, or there's something more to the story you haven't shared. With the story presented, as is, with all the information given and no assumptions about these guys being friends or anything, I would say, "leave."
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  #12  
Old 06-07-2014, 09:09 AM
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Default Re: Why is it so hard for the band to follow me?!?!

Well it only works perfect ,when every member plays with the click.
If only the drummer plays with the click and one member or more can't follow for some reason,It will sounds really bad.and everybody will look to the drummer to hold the time?.
So what i do in that situation ill will start with the click and if the band will not follow il will follow the band ,and shut down the click.
If you do that it will sound ok and the band will gets beter at time every time you starts with the click, you will see that they will follow more every time you start the song but that will take time.[hehe]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqxXEEnbqrM

And they have to practice to with the click, off course!

Because i think everybody/member responsible for own time! not only the drummer!!
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Last edited by sdedge; 06-07-2014 at 09:27 AM.
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  #13  
Old 06-07-2014, 11:42 AM
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Default Re: Why is it so hard for the band to follow me?!?!

If it's rehearsal, turn up the click so everyone will hear it.

I think it's the only way they will learn, unless they practice alone with a click.
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  #14  
Old 06-07-2014, 12:20 PM
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Default Re: Why is it so hard for the band to follow me?!?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by (Future)DWdrummer View Post
The worship leader always tells me the band will follow my time-the metronome's time- but I usually lose everyone by the first chorus and by that time I have no choice but to shut it off and follow the leader/rest of the band..

Which I have no problem with except for the fact that after each tempo-challenging go at a tune the leader looks at me and says "we sped up/slowed down here" at the exact spot where they all took off from my time.
All right, then. Next time, beat him to the punch. Don't let your worship leader take control of that situation. He clearly has no idea what's happening.

Next time, don't give your worship leader a chance to say anything. You say it first. If you wait too long and he opens his mouth, interrupt him. He's the worship leader, not the tempo leader! And don't tell the group "we" sped up ó tell them, "This is where people stopped following me. Half of you increased the tempo, and dragged the other half with you. Who's having trouble hearing me?" Or something like that, that best describes what occurs.

Figure out a solution based on how they react to what you say. If they don't believe you, record them on your phone and make them listen to it.

Take charge!
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  #15  
Old 06-07-2014, 12:46 PM
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Default Re: Why is it so hard for the band to follow me?!?!

Yep... turn up the click.

Who is not following you? The singers?

Let me ask you a couple of questions.

Do all the singers use vibrato at the same time?

Do all the singers start the songs very slowly and emotionally?

If that is the case; they are not inclined to listen to the beat... they are all wrapped up emotionally with the song.

Tough call. I have a general rule regarding P&W vocals. If they are not slightly out of breath during and after the song, you're playing too slow.

Emotional singing and gaudy displays of incessant vibrato or clashing vibrato's is a sure sign that (a) they are too emotional, (b) they have a heartfelt desire to pull everyone down with their smarmy vocalization.

How are the dynamics working out?
Does the guitarist insist on sounding like Nickelback on EVERY song?
Are there 1 or 2 Divas that only want things their way? No matter what it takes to have their way?

Are you the time keeper or what?

Try a 1 on 1 with Team Leader and see what transpires.
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Last edited by GeoB; 06-07-2014 at 12:47 PM. Reason: For the sake of liturature
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  #16  
Old 06-07-2014, 12:49 PM
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Default Re: Why is it so hard for the band to follow me?!?!

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Originally Posted by Nancy_C View Post

If they don't believe you, record them on your phone and make them listen to it.

Take charge!
Playbacks can be humbling experiences.
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  #17  
Old 06-07-2014, 02:12 PM
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Default Re: Why is it so hard for the band to follow me?!?!

I find that people who play the same instruments tend to make timing mistakes at the same time and in the same way(oh nose here comes that B chord again), when they do this it can have a disorienting effect, because you sound out of time. Also, people will often follow the melodic lead(section leader), whose sense of time maybe off, or it may be on, but he is playing a counter point intentionally. There are any number methods to combat this from crashes and toms to throughing in a full bar rest and pick up notes and fills. On occasion, you can even go with it. Though I expect that most church bands don't care beans about rhythm, and would be just as happy with third chair singer skipping to my Lou on drums.
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  #18  
Old 06-07-2014, 02:42 PM
iwearnohats iwearnohats is offline
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Default Re: Why is it so hard for the band to follow me?!?!

Lots of good advice in here already.

As someone who once had to try and assist a group of vocalists at a church with learning a song (that they never managed to master and as such was never performed), I can relate an experience.

Basically, we listened to the song. I played nothing but straight time, with a dominant focus on the hihat. The singers just simply could not keep in time with me, and I was rock solid on the beat. It got to the point where I was subtly increasing the volume on the hats to 'encourage' them to notice it more, still didn't help.

Nancy has already mentioned this: Stand up for yourself! When the songs are playing, YOU are in control. Don't follow the musicians, they have to follow YOU. If they go out of time, it's their prerogative to get back into it. But you do have to make sure that you ARE keeping good time without the metronome.

I don't know how old you are, it's definitely harder when you're a teenager if you have to stand up to people older than you, but for me these days I've been playing so long and with so many different people, plus I know my time is solid, that I can speak my mind freely and do so without hesitation if there is an issue. A one-on-one with the music leader is also a good way for you to express your concern and frustration that the musicians aren't following you.

Oh, and another way to get people to pay attention is to play louder. Then when they complain, you can say "Sorry, everyone kept going out of time so I thought they couldn't hear me properly." :)
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  #19  
Old 06-07-2014, 03:03 PM
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Default Re: Why is it so hard for the band to follow me?!?!

they are not following you because they shouldn't be following you .... they should be keeping time WITH you .... right along side you

the collective band is simply not riding the same wave... it is as simple as that

this is common when you get a group of people in a room who cannot keep time and have no idea how to listen

a player needs to
- first and foremost know if they are not playing in time with the room ... you would be surprised how many don't even know they are not in time.... unbelievable
- second be able to adjust to the time in the room
- then lastly be able to keep steady time and ebb and flow with everyone who is behind an instrument as a unit

now I say all this assuming that you are playing steady ... or at least someone in the room is staying true to the count off

Last edited by WhoIsTony?; 06-07-2014 at 03:19 PM.
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  #20  
Old 06-07-2014, 03:54 PM
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Default Re: Why is it so hard for the band to follow me?!?!

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Originally Posted by WhoIsTony? View Post
... you would be surprised how many don't even know they are not in time.... unbelievable
Oh man, is this so true. I played a gig recently in which the singer was so far off the beat on a 6/8 slow tune I had to just tune him out. After the show, he was totally surprised when I brought it up to him.

Ugh....

Singer/songwriters seem to be especially prone to this, in my experience.
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  #21  
Old 06-07-2014, 04:01 PM
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Default Re: Why is it so hard for the band to follow me?!?!

I Love when my Jazz band speeds up during the solos and then they blame me for it :)
The keyboard player is notorious for it. He speeds up during his solo and the bass player soon gets suckered in and off we go! When we come back to the head I make it a point to return to the starting tempo just to subtly point out what has happened.
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Old 06-07-2014, 04:06 PM
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Default Re: Why is it so hard for the band to follow me?!?!

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Originally Posted by Jeff Almeyda View Post
Oh man, is this so true. I played a gig recently in which the singer was so far off the beat on a 6/8 slow tune I had to just tune him out. After the show, he was totally surprised when I brought it up to him.

Ugh....

Singer/songwriters seem to be especially prone to this, in my experience.
I think people who are generally used to playing alone feel that their time IS time ... so when they get in a room with other musicians they just do what they do in the room alone by default and don't understand how to listen .

it sounds crazy ... but listening... in the sense of the word that we are talking about... is a learned skill
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  #23  
Old 06-07-2014, 05:16 PM
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Default Re: Why is it so hard for the band to follow me?!?!

Exactly.

IME, singers have the absolute worst time.

I experienced a similar thing at my church. I used to only use a metronome for a couple tunes, but the singers would always rush or drag. Not completely different from us as beginners; if they have a lot of notes to sing crammed into a bar, they rush through that and come out speeding up, if there is a lot of space, they tend to drag.

I showed my worship leader this when he had just the singers go through a song. I tapped along with them on my met. I literally showed him where they sped up.
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  #24  
Old 06-07-2014, 05:25 PM
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Default Re: Why is it so hard for the band to follow me?!?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wally Young View Post
It's not that they won't follow time, its that they can't comprehend playing with a set time.
If you've ever recorded with a click and found that you need to stop every take to remove the click out of each players phones until they only hear the drummer (who still has the click in his phones), you will understand that some players just can't play with a click. It screws them up.
When they get loose, they force the tempo and it wreaks havoc with the timing.
When there are too many overdubs, the drums which initially had a good feel, sound held back.
I can concur. As a guitarist, there are certain songs and melodic parts where having the click track in-mix is as annoying as having Gomer Pile sitting next to you clapping on the one and the three. Clicks make things difficult for musicians that intuitively anchor on the backbeat. It gets easier with experience.

To the OP:

What happens when your rhythm section plays alone/acoustic without a click, conductor, or other modern technology?
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Old 06-07-2014, 05:40 PM
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Default Re: Why is it so hard for the band to follow me?!?!

Not only do I agree with Tony on that some people don't know how to play in time, some people start rationalizing it. And for whatever reason, worship teams seem really, really prone to attract people with poor rhythmic skills.

I occasionally have to drum behind a husband/wife team; he only knows one strumming rhythm and has never strummed on beat 3 to save his life, and loves to speed up. She is a torch song singer who, if given free rein, could take a song that starts at 140 bpm to 65 bpm by the final measure.

At one point, trying to be helpful, I pointed out that "the band's" time was dragging (coincidentally, it was a vocal passage). Her response: "I'm used to playing with the youth band who doesn't have a confident drummer."

Anyway, to the OP: some great advice here. Just make sure you're rock-solid on your time. I would think you're really the only one who needs a click, but everyone else needs to be keeping the same time even if they can't hear a click. And the easiest way to do that, is to follow the rhythm of the guy who does have the click.
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Old 06-07-2014, 05:49 PM
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Default Re: Why is it so hard for the band to follow me?!?!

They are only listening to themselves. They have to learn to listen to everything. Peace and goodwill.
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Old 06-07-2014, 08:45 PM
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Default Re: Why is it so hard for the band to follow me?!?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Almeyda View Post
Oh man, is this so true. I played a gig recently in which the singer was so far off the beat on a 6/8 slow tune I had to just tune him out. After the show, he was totally surprised when I brought it up to him.

Ugh....

Singer/songwriters seem to be especially prone to this, in my experience.
Haha. I've heard this one too, from a prominent drummer playing with a well known artist and also from younger drummers who played with off-time singers in college.
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Old 06-07-2014, 09:33 PM
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Default Re: Why is it so hard for the band to follow me?!?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by (Future)DWdrummer View Post
So my worship leader makes me play along to a metronome live during rehearsals and services... Which I have no problem with since I only ever practice at home along to a met.. But there's just one problem...

The band doesn't know how to follow a drummer!

Ugh it drives me insane! Usually I just count off to the beat then turn the darn thing off ASAP because its so difficult... But sometimes I actually try to keep time by playing along to the met for as much of the tune as possible but it is soo hard.

The worship leader always tells me the band will follow my time-the metronome's time- but I usually lose everyone by the first chorus and by that time I have no choice but to shut it off and follow the leader/rest of the band..

Which I have no problem with except for the fact that after each tempo-challenging go at a tune the leader looks at me and says "we sped up/slowed down here" at the exact spot where they all took off from my time.

Bottom line, it's really hard to play along to a click when the band doesnt follow you xD lol... I'm sure all of you have dealt wiht this at some time or another, but I just needed to blow off some steam xD

Play music, not math. Everyone sit down, listen to the tune, maybe even play along quietly. Get familiar with the way the curves are. Then play it for real.

Toss the metronome in that situation.
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  #29  
Old 06-07-2014, 09:46 PM
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Default Re: Why is it so hard for the band to follow me?!?!

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Originally Posted by (Future)DWdrummer View Post
Which I have no problem with except for the fact that after each tempo-challenging go at a tune the leader looks at me and says "we sped up/slowed down here" at the exact spot where they all took off from my time.
That would be unacceptable to me. I would immediately put the click through the PA and tell them to play to it without me. Then point out what a crap job they did at each point where they had to chase the click.
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Old 06-08-2014, 01:24 AM
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Default Re: Why is it so hard for the band to follow me?!?!

Well just hold on a moment.

How long have you been playing? I ask because after playing for 4-5 years I played in a worship band and there were timing issues. Now I've been playing for 9 years - we don't have any timing issues.

Guess what - I'm better than I was!

I think a drummer with excellent timing can play with an authority that drags everyone along, or rather those that use their ears.

Davo
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Old 06-08-2014, 01:33 AM
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Default Re: Why is it so hard for the band to follow me?!?!

Maybe you could say a short prayer before your performance.
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  #32  
Old 06-08-2014, 01:39 PM
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Default Re: Why is it so hard for the band to follow me?!?!

There are two main things in music that all should work on:pitch and time.

Problem is that most instruments focus on the 1st one and the drummer /sometimes the bass player focus on the second one.
Have all members of the band practice with a metronome by themselves. Give them a list of all the songs with the tempo written next to it and see if it helps .
Note: it will most likely take a loooong time for that.
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Old 06-08-2014, 02:35 PM
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Default Re: Why is it so hard for the band to follow me?!?!

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Originally Posted by Dr_Watso View Post
That would be unacceptable to me. I would immediately put the click through the PA and tell them to play to it without me.
I did that with a band once when we were all miced up at a practice and wearing headphones. I think that they went about 5 measures before they went off from the click.
It came about after I asked them if they practiced with a metronome and they all said that they didn't. They were all surprised at how hard it was to stay with the click. It was a good lesson and we all learned from it.
I believe that tempo is the whole bands job. It is wrong for musicians who vary the tempo to blame only the drummer. We become the scapegoat.
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Last edited by bobdadruma; 06-08-2014 at 02:45 PM.
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Old 06-08-2014, 10:23 PM
JerryTheCat JerryTheCat is offline
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Default Re: Why is it so hard for the band to follow me?!?!

Since your in a Worship band, I can relate to you :D Now obviously, this is the rest of bands problem not yours, but it is still your responsibility to keep the time and make sure everyone is on beat. This is what I would do... Try to incorporate a very simple pattern that they can follow easily. For example, Try to use the four-on-the-floor pattern often. And make sure you are hitting it hard enough that the whole band can hear it loud and clear. And, since your dominant hand is usually going to be on the ride or hats, hit them nice and hard. I mean smack that thing! Make sure you almost always have something on 1,2,3, and 4. Even on fills(Well, mabe). also, Ask the sound guy if he can hook something up to where the whole band can hear the click- not just you. That is what we do at our church. We have what is called a loop (ooOOOOHhhhh aaaAAAHHhhhh). Basically how that works is you have to download a special stereo track, and the actual background track is going through the left side and the click is going through the right side(or vice versa). We use a 3.5mm to rca (R and L) adapter, and then use two rca to 1/4" adapters and hook it up to two different channels-So the click, and the background track are two separate channels on the mixer. So the audience can hear the band with the background track (not the click), and the band has the click coming through their ears. I'm sure your sound guy can hook something like this up, except in a mono setting (just the click). There is one downside though, The band has to have in-ears/personal monitors/earbuds. Otherwise you'd have to put the click through the stage monitors... And that would bleed into the main mix.... You get my point.
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Old 06-08-2014, 10:34 PM
JerryTheCat JerryTheCat is offline
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Default Re: Why is it so hard for the band to follow me?!?!

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Originally Posted by New Tricks View Post
Maybe you could say a short prayer before your performance.
Why short? This thread is now (also) a competition to see who says the longest prayer before going on stage :D
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Old 06-08-2014, 11:46 PM
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JustJames JustJames is offline
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Default Re: Why is it so hard for the band to follow me?!?!

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Originally Posted by New Tricks View Post
Maybe you could say a short prayer before your performance.
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Originally Posted by JerryTheCat View Post
Why short? This thread is now (also) a competition to see who says the longest prayer before going on stage :D
Because if they tried a long prayer, they'd all finish at different times.
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Old 06-08-2014, 11:51 PM
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alparrott alparrott is offline
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Default Re: Why is it so hard for the band to follow me?!?!

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Originally Posted by bobdadruma View Post
I did that with a band once when we were all miced up at a practice and wearing headphones. I think that they went about 5 measures before they went off from the click.
It came about after I asked them if they practiced with a metronome and they all said that they didn't. They were all surprised at how hard it was to stay with the click. It was a good lesson and we all learned from it.
I believe that tempo is the whole bands job. It is wrong for musicians who vary the tempo to blame only the drummer. We become the scapegoat.
Appropriately for this thread: AMEN!!
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Old 06-09-2014, 01:02 AM
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Anon La Ply Anon La Ply is offline
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Default Re: Why is it so hard for the band to follow me?!?!

Sometimes the situation or the personalities are good enough to get you to persevere with dodgier musos.

When a band has weak time, it can still sound okay if the drummer plays strong, loud and clear beats like a human metronome. Big, fat, obvious simple money beats with a clear 8th note hihat pulse to keep them on track. Strong crashes on the one. Simple, strong quarter and 8th note fills will cue everyone for changes.

It's not exactly Elvin Jones or Vinnie, but simplifying helps the total band sound if the band is wobbly. Drama queen vocalists and finger-focused keyboardists may seem like they don't listen, but they will notice a big, fat money beat (unless they're really whacky). They have busy minds and their heads are not clear while they play, so if you simplify then they they can clearly see the relation between drums and their own lines.

Afterwards, of course, they will tell you that you were too fast or slow, depending on whether they felt relaxed or hyped at the time :)
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Old 06-09-2014, 04:56 AM
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Nancy_C Nancy_C is offline
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Default Re: Why is it so hard for the band to follow me?!?!

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Because if they tried a long prayer, they'd all finish at different times.
Funniest thing I've seen all day ... I needed that, thanks!
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Old 06-09-2014, 05:11 AM
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NerfLad NerfLad is offline
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Default Re: Why is it so hard for the band to follow me?!?!

Sounds like they aren't listening. "The time is in the room" - Thelonious Monk

I agree you should seek greener pastures.
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