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Old 05-08-2015, 04:25 PM
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Default Help with wiggly stands

I picked up some used stands and I was really disappointed to see that all the legs wiggle. They don't appear rusty or anything like that so I'm guessing they were subject to some temperature changes or maybe made on a Friday afternoon at the yamaha factory.

Please see the picture, I believe these pins (is that the term for them?) might be worn or undersized or incorrectly fitted because all of the movement is happening where the legs rotate. I was wondering if it's worth my while to have the pins removed and new ones fitted? Would this solve my problem?

I wouldn't worry if it was just minor but these rattle... and I have another set of the same stands and they are perfectly tight.

FWIW they are stage custom stands from the Indonesian era (same as my other ones).
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Old 05-08-2015, 11:53 PM
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Default Re: Help with wiggly stands

My hardware is Yamaha 600/700 series stands like the one pictured. I've had them for a long time, and I've played a lot of gigs with them. In fact, I've used them through four drum sets. I just checked them all to see if there are any problems like the one you've described. If I hold the stands off the ground and vigorously shake them, there is some movement in those joints, but once on the ground I'm unable to induce any noise at all. So I'm curious. Does the noise you hear occur when the stands are in use and on the ground? Can you determine that the noise is definitely coming from the leg attachment bracket? Could it be the middle tube rattling inside the main tube? By the way, replacing the rivets that hold the legs in place is unlikely to help the problem unless the rivets themselves are excessively worn. Considering that these are solid rivets and are as strong as the legs themselves, if the rivets are worn, the holes in the legs likely are, too. I'm stumped.

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Old 05-09-2015, 03:17 PM
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Default Re: Help with wiggly stands

I don't have such issues with any Yamaha stands.

These are a form of machine cold rivet. When originally applied, the level of deformation (tightness) is controlled. Of course, this means it can be incorrectly set, & that's probably the cause of excess looseness. You can tighten them with a variation of a rivet set. Essentially a punch die with corresponding radius to match the dome end, & a splay punch to open out the deformation end. In the absence of these items, simply placing the dome end of the fixing on something really solid such as a large vice or anvil, then striking the deformed end with a heavy engineers hammer, will tighten the joint. Be careful though, as one hit too many can over tighten the joint, & backing it off is a PITA.
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Old 05-09-2015, 04:20 PM
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Default Re: Help with wiggly stands

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Originally Posted by keep it simple View Post
In the absence of these items, simply placing the dome end of the fixing on something really solid such as a large vice or anvil, then striking the deformed end with a heavy engineers hammer, will tighten the joint. Be careful though, as one hit too many can over tighten the joint, & backing it off is a PITA.
I thought about that, too, but hesitated suggesting it because the leg bracket is cast and will not tolerate any deformation. I suspect that attempting to tighten the joint might result in a broken leg bracket. What do you think, KIS? The odd thing about this problem is that it apparently is showing itself in more than one stand. ???????

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Old 05-09-2015, 04:40 PM
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Default Re: Help with wiggly stands

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Originally Posted by gdmoore28 View Post
I thought about that, too, but hesitated suggesting it because the leg bracket is cast and will not tolerate any deformation. I suspect that attempting to tighten the joint might result in a broken leg bracket. What do you think, KIS? The odd thing about this problem is that it apparently is showing itself in more than one stand. ???????

GeeDeeEmm
Hmmm, you have a point. If we're only talking about correcting excessive looseness (i.e. rivet rattling in the assembly) then a degree of gentle "pinch" should be no problem. If we're talking about squeezing the cast bracket "ears" such that they deform, then that could be an issue for sure.
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Old 05-10-2015, 05:36 PM
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Default Re: Help with wiggly stands

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Originally Posted by keep it simple View Post
You can tighten them with a variation of a rivet set. Essentially a punch die with corresponding radius to match the dome end, & a splay punch to open out the deformation end. In the absence of these items, simply placing the dome end of the fixing on something really solid such as a large vice or anvil, then striking the deformed end with a heavy engineers hammer, will tighten the joint. Be careful though, as one hit too many can over tighten the joint, & backing it off is a PITA.
Cool, who do you think would have these items? Just any type of metal fabricator?
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Old 05-10-2015, 09:38 PM
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Default Re: Help with wiggly stands

Yep. And please let us know how it works out. Are there others who have had this problem with the Yamaha hardware? This really has me puzzled.

GeeDeeEmm
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Old 05-11-2015, 10:02 AM
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Default Re: Help with wiggly stands

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Originally Posted by gdmoore28 View Post
Yep. And please let us know how it works out. Are there others who have had this problem with the Yamaha hardware? This really has me puzzled.

GeeDeeEmm
Stands wear out. Any rivet in a leg on a stand is a lube point, it these points never get lubed (which is not inconceivable) the steel is going to wear quicker than if lube were applied as general maintaince. 3 gig's a week for 4 years is over 1000 times open and closed. Gig bags can also put added stress on stand legs. Tightening the rivets is the only real option to save them, a better option IMO is getting new stands and maintaining them.
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Old 05-12-2015, 12:44 AM
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Default Re: Help with wiggly stands

I think you're making too big a deal out of this.

The drummer in this band is playing with a wiggly drum kit...

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Old 05-15-2015, 06:53 AM
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Default Re: Help with wiggly stands

4 days since I emailed yamaha product support...
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Old 05-15-2015, 07:49 AM
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Default Re: Help with wiggly stands

If you're a twatter, try:

https://twitter.com/YamahaBackstage
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Old 05-16-2015, 07:02 PM
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Default Re: Help with wiggly stands

No but my face is in a book.

Good thinking. I posted on their page, let's see if they take 5 days to notice that one.
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Old 05-17-2015, 01:16 AM
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Default Re: Help with wiggly stands

What about just drilling the rivets out and replacing them with 12-32 screws (or whatever size is closest to the diameter of the rivets) and nylon nuts. Once you have determined the exact amount of tightness you want you can then cut off the screws flush with the nut with a hack saw.
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Old 05-17-2015, 01:39 AM
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Default Re: Help with wiggly stands

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Originally Posted by Ghostnote View Post
What about just drilling the rivets out and replacing them with 12-32 screws (or whatever size is closest to the diameter of the rivets) and nylon nuts. Once you have determined the exact amount of tightness you want you can then cut off the screws flush with the nut with a hack saw.
The legs wouldn't close properly an it'd look like ell, not to mention for the work involved it'd be cheaper to buy new stands... if your time is worth money.
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Old 05-17-2015, 10:24 PM
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Default Re: Help with wiggly stands

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostnote View Post
What about just drilling the rivets out and replacing them with 12-32 screws (or whatever size is closest to the diameter of the rivets) and nylon nuts. Once you have determined the exact amount of tightness you want you can then cut off the screws flush with the nut with a hack saw.
Because, as discussed earlier, the leg brackets on these stands are cast and will break off if tightened beyond their cast dimensions. Plus, as Les mentioned, it would "look like 'ell."

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Old 05-18-2015, 02:07 AM
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Default Re: Help with wiggly stands

I bet you could "tighten those rivets done " by putting a nut and bolt thru them with washer on each side and squishing it together slightly , thus increasing the friction.
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Old 05-18-2015, 04:39 AM
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Default Re: Help with wiggly stands

OK, I checked one of my loosey goosey snare stands and see its not the rivet at all, the rivets are tight and rusted in place.

What's happened is the steel legs are worn, the hole is worn/enlarged and the rivets shaft is probably worn (smaller), there's most likely a few thousands worn on the cast pot metal holder pieces also, so banging on a rivet won't do anything.

Drilling out rivets seems like a nightmare, the work involved, you'd have to re drill all the legs and cast pieces 'over' to fit a replacement bolt. Doesn't seem worth the effort for the result. Maybe someone could make it look pretty, i'd rather have new stands.
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Old 05-18-2015, 05:32 AM
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Default Re: Help with wiggly stands

actually drilling and replacing rivets is pretty easy. usually they just wear down and allow play from constant movement of the joints. a new rivet the proper size should do the trick. problem being you would have to buy the rivet gun and rivets, and a drill and several drill bits, and a hammer and punch if you don't have them already and spend a little time. you only have to drill off the back side of the rivet, not drill it all the way through, tap it out with a punch, put the new one in and crimp it down, done. should take only a few minutes each.

cost wise you might as well buy a new stand and be done with it, unless their highly valued heirlooms or something.
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