Kick drum on 2 and 4

EricT43

Senior Member
When I was learning to play rock music on the drum kit when I was younger, I was taught that the bass drum goes on 1 and 3, and the snare goes on 2 and 4, more or less. So for many years I've been playing most of my beats in sort of a linear fashion where when I'm hitting the snare, I leave the bass drum out of it.

I've been learning and studying a lot of rock songs lately as part of my gig with an 80's cover band, and I've been somewhat surprised by how often a lot of drummers will keep the kick going on 2 and 4, along with the snare. And not only for four-on-the-floor style beats either.

I kind of like this style myself, it certainly gives more punch, and allows for more interesting bass drum rhythms. And I imagine it is important for dance music. I'm curious what all of your thoughts are on this. Do you like to double the backbeat with your kick drum? Why or why not?
 
It's just another word in your vocabulary! There are no hard and fast rules. Varying a beat by something like kick placement can help build tension or simply differentiate one verse from another, verse from chorus, etc.

Glad you threw off the chains. Keep doing it, trying new combinations!
 
different strokes for different tunes.... 4 on the floor vs. 1 and 3.
Generally on a VERY fast tempo, I don't like the kick going all 4 beats, to me it becomes a wash of bass drum.....and of course it saves on endurance in fast number to hit your kick half as much.

And then of course there is the kick on the 1+, 3+...or the 1e+ and 3e+.....and....
 
The one I had a lot of trouble with was the dreaded:

4 e & (a) (1)
2 e & (a) (3)

where the () signifies the kick hit. There is some kind of twitch needed to hit that 16th before the next major tick and I had to spend untold frustrating and profanity laced hours working on it
 
Always depends on the song. Not every song benefits from straight fours, and some lose their drive with just 1 & 3. Knowing the difference is one reason that some drummers work more than others.

I sometimes do a little hybrid beat, something I heard Jon Snider play live with Eddie Money on Two Tickets To Paradise (it's used on the record as well, courtesy of Gary Mallaber.)

Kick is on 1, 2, 3& with snare on 2 and 4 of course and an opoen hat on the & of 4.

So there's a bit of drive, a bit of openness on the 4, and it works well on songs that would probably be fine with four on the floor, but could stand a little excitement without much clutter.

Bermuda
 
I think in country they do the bass drum and snare on two and four to avoid muddying the chord changes. They also do the low surdo/bass drum on two and four in samba, but I think it is because the high surdo has a more audible and precise attack for measure marking in percussion groups.
 
They also do the low surdo/bass drum on two and four in samba, but I think it is because the high surdo has a more audible and precise attack for measure marking in percussion groups.

Does that have anything to do with salsa dance moves? I think a big hitl low hit on 2 is a good cue.
 
For years (like 25-30), I could play that as naturally as breathing. Within the past 4-5 months, it's become my worst nightmare, and for the life of me, I don't know what's changed ... pedal tension, seat height, posture ... I can't figure it out .....
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"The one I had a lot of trouble with was the dreaded:

4 e & (a) (1)
2 e & (a) (3)

where the () signifies the kick hit. There is some kind of twitch needed to hit that 16th before the next major tick and I had to spend untold frustrating and profanity laced hours working on it"
 
For years (like 25-30), I could play that as naturally as breathing. Within the past 4-5 months, it's become my worst nightmare, and for the life of me, I don't know what's changed ... pedal tension, seat height, posture ... I can't figure it out .....
----------------------------------------------------------------------

"The one I had a lot of trouble with was the dreaded:

4 e & (a) (1)
2 e & (a) (3)

where the () signifies the kick hit. There is some kind of twitch needed to hit that 16th before the next major tick and I had to spend untold frustrating and profanity laced hours working on it"

Across all tempos? Same songs as before? From someone that *knows* the frustration of that seemingly innocuous sequence, I feel your pain. I first encountered it in Rock Steady by Bad Co...and in that one i dare say the "a" kick is slightly ghosted which adds more fuel to the fire.
 
Across all tempos? Same songs as before? From someone that *knows* the frustration of that seemingly innocuous sequence, I feel your pain. I first encountered it in Rock Steady by Bad Co...and in that one i dare say the "a" kick is slightly ghosted which adds more fuel to the fire.
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yep. It first hit me in, of all songs, Sweet Home Alabama. It was probably a physical anomaly that has become a mental block now, but I'm still not over it. I'm having to resort to a hi-hat drop-clutch and double pedals (shhhh......)
 
Across all tempos? Same songs as before? From someone that *knows* the frustration of that seemingly innocuous sequence, I feel your pain. I first encountered it in Rock Steady by Bad Co...and in that one i dare say the "a" kick is slightly ghosted which adds more fuel to the fire.

This one really get me too. Especially Latin patterns; it's the same 2 quick hits.

The technique I have gravitated to is pretty much a heel down hit first, then roll up onto the ball of your foot as you lift slightly, then drop your heel for the next hit. This makes the second note a little louder since you have the weight of your leg behind it.

I hope this description makes sense.

For a better illustration of it, check out Matt Ritter's excellent DVD, "Unburying The Beater".
 
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yep. It first hit me in, of all songs, Sweet Home Alabama. It was probably a physical anomaly that has become a mental block now, but I'm still not over it. I'm having to resort to a hi-hat drop-clutch and double pedals (shhhh......)

Yes, Sweet Home Alabama during the intro...I know precisely what you mean cause I struggled with that as well...there is a "twitch" motion. Frankly, I'm still perfecting it. It's very humbling to not be able to execute such a seemingly simple thing,

This issue led me to investigate why I was having so much trouble...and that led me to watching other drummers and I noticed that *lots* of them don't play those "a" notes. I'm absolutely not referring to anyone on here...no reference whatsoever. In my case what I noticed is that I was aniticipating that note, slightly tensing in my leg and not using a fluid, "carefree" motion of the leg to "pre-load" and then get that "a"...so i worked on relaxing and letting the leg flow

it may have nothing to do with your situation, but I thought I would throw it out there.,
 
This one really get me too. Especially Latin patterns; it's the same 2 quick hits.

The technique I have gravitated to is pretty much a heel down hit first, then roll up onto the ball of your foot as you lift slightly, then drop your heel for the next hit. This makes the second note a little louder since you have the weight of your leg behind it.

I hope this description makes sense.

For a better illustration of it, check out Matt Ritter's excellent DVD, "Unburying The Beater".

thats great info! thanks..I will check that video
 
What REALLY bothers me is that I could play that effortlessly since that song came out (I was 14!), and now I'm struggling with it! The other thing is ... I can play 1e, 2e, etc. It's da1, da2, etc that's giving me fits. I guess it should be noted that I play heel up.
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Yes, Sweet Home Alabama during the intro...I know precisely what you mean cause I struggled with that as well...there is a "twitch" motion. Frankly, I'm still perfecting it. It's very humbling to not be able to execute such a seemingly simple thing,

This issue led me to investigate why I was having so much trouble...and that led me to watching other drummers and I noticed that *lots* of them don't play those "a" notes. I'm absolutely not referring to anyone on here...no reference whatsoever. In my case what I noticed is that I was aniticipating that note, slightly tensing in my leg and not using a fluid, "carefree" motion of the leg to "pre-load" and then get that "a"...so i worked on relaxing and letting the leg flow

it may have nothing to do with your situation, but I thought I would throw it out there.,
 
Does that have anything to do with salsa dance moves? I think a big hitl low hit on 2 is a good cue.

I like salsa dancing, but I am no expert in the salsa kit department. The groove I picked up has the bass on the "and of two" and four. In relation to the son clave:
Bass = B
Clave = X
Bass+Clave=T
X--T--T----XBX-B-
X--X--X----X-X---
---B--B----B--B-
It kind of has a weird 5/4 cross rhythm feel to it, but it works when you add the clave and cascara or bell patterns to it.
 
I started picking this up from a guy who emphasizes the back beat on the kick in blues shuffles. Watch an audience clapping their hands to the back beat and you'll see how important that is to the groove. Take a standard blues double shuffle where the kick does straight quarters and try emphasizing either the 1 & 3 or the 2 & 4. It's amazing how much the back beat emphasis drives the groove. It gets away from a rocking back and forth feel to a deeper swing.
 
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