Two-handed 16th rhythms on the hats.....

S

stellar92010

Senior Member
Anyone grub their way through a lot of these patterns? A lot of them don't sound good until the tempo ramps up, then they sound really cool. I never realized how much they are used in modern music, Ian Paice uses them a lot (Smoke on the Water, Woman From Tokyo, etc) and Men At Work (Down Under) etc, I hear them everywhere now that I started learning them.

They were kind of hard at first but like I said, I just grub through them really slow until they start getting embedded in my muscles, and work faster and faster, and I am starting to really like them. I guess that is good because my teacher has a major fetish for 16ths on the hats.

But then again he has major fetishes for anything that makes really wicked sounding rhythms.


So how is everyone's knowledge of these patterns, and how intensely do you study them? If you perform a lot how often do they turn up? I'm beginning to think they are pretty much essential elements of a good style.
 
I practice them but I use them in spurts because I think a whole bar can sound cheesy and also makes it a tiny bit harder to groove with the kick and snare. Definitely great as an exercise to push your top speeds so that you have more headroom at fast tempos. I've actually developed more speed this way rather than playing 16ths on the snare.

So far I do 3 things:

Singles
Doubles
and I just started paradiddles.

I do the Benny Greb thing to develop it (alternating between 8ths and 16ths or 16ths and 32nd notes). I can expand on that if you like.
 
As Dre25 alluded to I think the key to two-handed 16ths sounding good and not cheesy is to apply rudiments to them.

Play around with shifting the accents and you can make them groove a lot more than the full on disco style 16ths.
 
The key to making these beats sound good comes down to two things, like with all beats; timing and dynamics.

It's just this particular kind of beat is more difficult. It takes time to develop a light enough touch for, say, the left hand off beat notes, when coming down from the hi-hat to the snare.

Experimenting with the bass notes on such a beat is a great way for beginners/intermediates to get their right foot and left hand working in unison.

What's even harder is to swing these beats with a good feel. Now that takes a mature level of skill.
 
Keeping the quarter note pulse large and in charge makes the 16ths groove more, like on "My Woman From Tokyo"
 
They appear often. If you want to know an up tempo one. Try Everlong by the Foo Fighters. That one will build your singles chops for sure.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hq0rZ3IiyWw

Another pitfalll is foot/left hand coordination. Still can't do that completely without making flams. It's a long term project of mine to get this perfect, but I know it's essential for getting these things to groove well.
 
i do all my two hand 16th patterns like Gadd whenever possible: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSiuK4Mt9gs

basically you flam the 2 & 4 so that it is a continuous stream of 16ths vs. slightly broken on back-beats. this has been GREAT for tunes like Timberlake's "suit and tie" which is at 102 bmp and tough for me to maintain w/ right hand *only* for the whole tune ala Porcaro. check the drummer on the SNL version, he destroys it.
 
I love playing funky grooves where it's too fast to play comfortably with one hand on the hats and it sounds too sparse if you just play 8ths on the hats.. add in 16ths with both hands and - at the right tempo - it just kicks it!
Picked that up from one of my fav drummers - Steve Jordan (and his 17" hi hats!)
 
I also think that 16ths on the hi hat played straight with little dynamics sound generic.

They can sound way better with some nice accent placements and doubles thrown in though, and syncopation.
 
Sjogras said:
I think that double handed hi-hat work for several bars is waaaaay over used, at least in 4/4. Should any members of my band ever ask me to play that in our songs, this would be my reaction:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umDr0mPuyQc

However! Animals as leaders' "Tempting time" features this, in 15/8. 32nd notes with some really nice accents and insanely hard bassdrum hits.

http://youtu.be/ohXFfI70mLw?t=2m50s
Click to expand...

Agreed thoroughly. Whenever my church band does these kind of rhythms, I try to spruce them up a bit with unique sticks or incorporating one hand on the ride- at the most basic level, that's just paradiddles with the left hand on hi-hat, right on ride, and left hand hitting snare on the 2. There are many ways to go from there.

secret animals as leaders high-five!
 
Some of these grooves I learned take a lot of coordination and tight dynamics because there are a lot of off beats with the snare and bass drum, and its hard. So I can of disagree about them sounding 'generic' unless all one does is play straight sixteenths and one and three bass and two and four snare.

Well, its hard for me but I'm a rank amateur.
 
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