bass head for converted 16" tom

W

whaz

Member
long story:
bought huge catalina maple kit a couple years for my kid who now needs minimalist kit to fit in small station wagon to play jazz in small clubs, the operative word being small so have been messing with it to achieve a small kit suitable for such. The huge bass drum is in the garage, replaced by the 16" tom which has a trick drums conversion whoojoomagigger. It doesn't sound so great, possibly due to emperor batter head and ambassador resonant. With some moon gel on batter head and reso head way loosened pitch is okay but muffled.
short:
Looking into heads I'm thinking of gifting a set of remo skyntone for the batter heads -- it has been a couple of years of lots of practice -- but think the converted bass drum might be better off with the renaissance fiberskin 3 since it is specifically designed as a bass drum head. There is a 16" skyntone but I don't know how well it would wear being beat on by a bass pedal. Still, it seems that keeping all the heads consistent might be good for some reason or the other.


Any advice?
 
Why not just get Powerstroke 3s for both sides? They're pretty standard heads for a reason :)

The Fiberskyn 3 will be a great reso or batter head for jazz. I haven't tried the Skyntone or Fiberskyn 3 as a batter, especially not on a 16" drum, but I think a Skyntone batter with the FS3 reso would probably work well. Beater choice will also help/hinder the sound- I find the VicKick hard felt beaters to be extremely good in either configuration.

Of course, it depends on how much you're willing to spend. You could just get a Skyntone batter, perhaps a little muffling for the Ambassador as a reso, and be done with it.
 
Have you tried muffling the batter head with a felt strip? That would be a good start, as for durability, you could either get a flam slam patch for it or try taping a cut out section of an old head at the point of impact. Karl Crafton taught me that.
 
thanks guys. we may just try to get the bass drum to sound as good as possible then match the rest of the kit. With the emperor head it sounds pretty unnatural for lack of a better word. Prolly try a new batter head / felt first then if still not happening try replacing the ambassasor reso.

here's a sort of related question . . . do reso heads wear out or start to sound bad? I guess they must, but they obviously get a lot less punishment.

thanks for the advice!
 
I had an 18x16 floor tom converted for a while. Might do it again. I used an Ebony Ambassador with a 4" or 5" port on the front, and an Ebony Pinstripe on the beater side. There was some foam stuck to both heads, but it was still very resonant. I might try one of those ring control Muff'l things next time.

How do you like the Trick conversion? I sold my DW9909 with the tom I was using. Not sure if I want to spend that much on something like that again, especially since it doesn't accommodate the Axis pedals well.
 
You need to go the opposite way with tiny bass drums. Don't use a Powerstroke 3 or similar head. It'll be too muffled. On my 14x18 bop bass drum, a regular ol' Pinstripe works fine. I have a coated ambassador on the front and it sounds nice and throaty in a band situation, while still sounding like a drum. I tried the EMAD head with the built-in foam ring, and although it works to make it sound like the bass drums you're used to, once the band starts playing, it just sounds like a wet cardboard box because the drum is too small and lacks natural resonance to gets its tone to travel. And your son will be working too hard if the music cranks up a few notches.

For a 16" bass drum you need to emply non-muffled heads, keep the drum wide-open, and tune it down. Leave that bit of ring in there because 10 feet in front (or in the audience) it'll sound like a real bass drum.

Too bad you guys went for that bass drum conversion kit, I would've just gone out and found a smaller 14x20 bass drum instead - used it probably cost about the same.
 
Bo Eder said:
You need to go the opposite way with tiny bass drums. Don't use a Powerstroke 3 or similar head. It'll be too muffled. On my 14x18 bop bass drum, a regular ol' Pinstripe works fine. I have a coated ambassador on the front and it sounds nice and throaty in a band situation, while still sounding like a drum. I tried the EMAD head with the built-in foam ring, and although it works to make it sound like the bass drums you're used to, once the band starts playing, it just sounds like a wet cardboard box because the drum is too small and lacks natural resonance to gets its tone to travel. And your son will be working too hard if the music cranks up a few notches.

For a 16" bass drum you need to emply non-muffled heads, keep the drum wide-open, and tune it down. Leave that bit of ring in there because 10 feet in front (or in the audience) it'll sound like a real bass drum.

Too bad you guys went for that bass drum conversion kit, I would've just gone out and found a smaller 14x20 bass drum instead - used it probably cost about the same.
Click to expand...

true might have been easier to just get another drum, but the garage is filling up already, haha.

muffled heads -- do you mean like Remo FA? sorry if this seems dumb question -- or do you mean just don't muffle the heads, or both?
 
Bo Eder said:
You need to go the opposite way with tiny bass drums. Don't use a Powerstroke 3 or similar head. It'll be too muffled. On my 14x18 bop bass drum, a regular ol' Pinstripe works fine. I have a coated ambassador on the front and it sounds nice and throaty in a band situation, while still sounding like a drum. I tried the EMAD head with the built-in foam ring, and although it works to make it sound like the bass drums you're used to, once the band starts playing, it just sounds like a wet cardboard box because the drum is too small and lacks natural resonance to gets its tone to travel. And your son will be working too hard if the music cranks up a few notches.

For a 16" bass drum you need to emply non-muffled heads, keep the drum wide-open, and tune it down. Leave that bit of ring in there because 10 feet in front (or in the audience) it'll sound like a real bass drum.

Too bad you guys went for that bass drum conversion kit, I would've just gone out and found a smaller 14x20 bass drum instead - used it probably cost about the same.
Click to expand...

Michaelocalypse said:
I had an 18x16 floor tom converted for a while. Might do it again. I used an Ebony Ambassador with a 4" or 5" port on the front, and an Ebony Pinstripe on the beater side. There was some foam stuck to both heads, but it was still very resonant. I might try one of those ring control Muff'l things next time.

How do you like the Trick conversion? I sold my DW9909 with the tom I was using. Not sure if I want to spend that much on something like that again, especially since it doesn't accommodate the Axis pedals well.
Click to expand...

The conversion thing is expensive, simple, sturdy, light, nice looking, and sometimes a pain to get just right what with leveling the drum properly and everything. Turns out it hasn't helped the footprint as much as hoped -- we wind up leaving the leg assembly on so as to avoid set up hassles at gig. Still, it gets in the hatchback ok, unlike the bass drum that came with the set.
 
Bo Eder said:
Too bad you guys went for that bass drum conversion kit, I would've just gone out and found a smaller 14x20 bass drum instead - used it probably cost about the same.
Click to expand...
I already had an extra tom to convert. New bass drum is several hundred dollars if you get it new and want it to match, if they make/made one small enough to justify getting a smaller bass drum.
 
whaz said:
true might have been easier to just get another drum, but the garage is filling up already, haha.

muffled heads -- do you mean like Remo FA? sorry if this seems dumb question -- or do you mean just don't muffle the heads, or both?
Click to expand...

I mean heads with built in muffling, like the EMAD or the Powerstroke 3. You want a head that has no muffling, like a pinstripe, or a G2. I had the EMAD on my 18" once and although it sounds like a bass drum right where I am while I play it, out front it sounds like a cardboard box because that muffled sound doesn't project. It works on bigger bass drums, but not on tiny ones. That's why I recommend like a black dot batter with a regular front head for maximum resonance. It's the only way you can compete with the rest of the band. Check out Jack DeJohnette when he played with Miles. He was using a 16" bass drum back then and I think the only head available was regular ambassadors or emperors, or calf.
 
Bo Eder said:
I mean heads with built in muffling, like the EMAD or the Powerstroke 3. You want a head that has no muffling, like a pinstripe, or a G2. I had the EMAD on my 18" once and although it sounds like a bass drum right where I am while I play it, out front it sounds like a cardboard box because that muffled sound doesn't project. It works on bigger bass drums, but not on tiny ones. That's why I recommend like a black dot batter with a regular front head for maximum resonance. It's the only way you can compete with the rest of the band. Check out Jack DeJohnette when he played with Miles. He was using a 16" bass drum back then and I think the only head available was regular ambassadors or emperors, or calf.
Click to expand...

Pinstripes are pre-muffled... the Remo equivalent would be an Emperor, yeah?
 
whaz said:
thanks guys. we may just try to get the bass drum to sound as good as possible then match the rest of the kit. With the emperor head it sounds pretty unnatural for lack of a better word. Prolly try a new batter head / felt first then if still not happening try replacing the ambassasor reso.


thanks for the advice!
Click to expand...

I have been experimenting with a small bass drum (16 inch). While I agree that wide open helps to cut when unmic'd, my kick is often mic'd so I have been trying heads and tunings with that in mind. I have got a nice thump and round tone with either PS3 both sides, or (...deep breath...) Superkick II batter with PS3 reso. Careful tuning needed and lots of patience. I got best results tuning for tone rather than lowest pitch, but it sounds surprisingly deep and punchy.
Edit: if it's a converted floor tom then depending on your hoops you might be limited to using tom heads only, so not the SKII. But PS3 comes in both 16" tom and 16" bass drum versions.
Good luck!
 
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