Problem with Drum Student

Living Dead Drummer

Platinum Member
So, on the opposite side of the "teacher issue" discussion going on, I have a student problem.

In all my years teaching privet lessons (17 to be exact) I've never once come across this scenario.

I have a 10 year old girl who's father is forcing her to play. They have a family band, and all of her older siblings fill out the roster. Older sister on Bass, Older Brother Guitar and Vocals, and even Mom's in on it with backup vox, songwriter, and percussion toys.

This girl HATES the drums. Like HATES it. She doesn't practice, unless Dad forces her. She hims and haws and everything. I get at least 4 big dramatic sighs per lessons. Dead blank stares when I ask her to perform something, or she cops and attitude.
And the thing is, she's actually good! Like picks up on playing real fast. If she just spent a little more time working at it she would be fantastic!

Dad is delusional, and while I've tried to get him to understand, he just wants his family band.

I don't want to give up on this girl. I want to crack this egg and find a way to get her to find a little enjoyment in her instrument.

SO my question is to you, fellow drum instructors. Are there any methods you've found success with cracking a particular tough student?
 
She doesn't want to learn?

Be done with her!

__________
 
Well no one likes to be coerced into something they don't want to do. Seems her Dad has chosen a poor strategy to encourage music in a child. Her problem is with her Dad, not you, because he is "forcing" her to take up this instrument. I'd do a heart to heart that you are not the enemy and she needs to either talk to her Dad and address her issues to find another instrument or acquiesce to his wishes and learn the drums and put the onus on her siblings to perform well with their instruments. The Dad sounds like Michael Jacksons father. Does she have any musical interests? All you can do is encourage any child to take up art, music, sports, etc. forcing them to take up any will more likely make them grow to hate them.
 
..I have a 10 year old girl who's father is forcing her to play. They have a family band, and all of her older siblings fill out the roster. Older sister on Bass, Older Brother Guitar and Vocals, and even Mom's in on it with backup vox, songwriter, and percussion toys.

This girl HATES the drums. Like HATES it. She doesn't practice, unless Dad forces her. She hims and haws and everything. I get at least 4 big dramatic sighs per lessons. Dead blank stares when I ask her to perform something, or she cops and attitude.
And the thing is, she's actually good! Like picks up on playing real fast. If she just spent a little more time working at it she would be fantastic!

Dad is delusional, and while I've tried to get him to understand, he just wants his family band.

I don't want to give up on this girl. I want to crack this egg and find a way to get her to find a little enjoyment in her instrument.

SO my question is to you, fellow drum instructors. Are there any methods you've found success with cracking a particular tough student?..


My advice would be the following..

When a girl that age is forced by her father to learn drums and she hates the complete thing, means that most likely she also will not like anything that the drumteacher says regarding learning drums..At this moment seems like you and the girl are having completely nothing in common during that lesson and you are maybe even kinda the 'embodiment' (if thats correct english, i used a translator..lol..) of her problem..

My advice would be to skip the drummingpart a little during the lessons and try to find out what you have in common with this girl..And try to get her mindset in a way that she is not completely hating everything anymore when she has to come to your place and sees those drums..

Then, once you earned a little the trust of this child, maybe start a little about drums (and her talent) again..

Most important at this moment seems that her 'hate-mindset' goes away..
 
This is really a parent issue imo. It's one thing if the child doesn't like school work and her parents force her to study (Basic math, reading skills etc are needed to function in life). Music should be fun and not a chore, especially for kids (although it takes hard work to become good).

I say stick with her as long as you can (unless she starts disrespecting your time). Something may eventually click, especially if she sees herself making progress and getting really good. Maybe take some phone videos now ...and then some more later and she can see how she is actually progressing. You never know it may light a fire.

Good luck. I have the upmost respect for music teachers. No way that I would have the patience to do such. Teaching is a gift

Keep us updated
 
It takes a lot of patience and creativity. Just keep experimenting. Even if you never actually bond, she's going to remember this and be influenced by it. She'll probably end up being great at something, with a lunatic parent like that. Just not at what the dad wants. The first thing I thought was to do a lesson or two where you just listen to music. See if you can find something she likes-- or just as importantly, that her dad hates.
 
Living Dead, I hope you don't mind if I rephrase your topic title and question based on info you provided: "Problem with parent of drum student, what should I do say to him?"
 
Pushy parent syndrome.

Nothing new here it usually happens in sports. I've seen it a hell of a lot in football and to an extent cricket. Outcome is the same for the lot, the kid just rebels and they burn out young which is understandable if you've never been listened to.

This guy should let his daughter find her own way. Someone should tell this guy the Osmonds and the Jacksons have already been done. From the sound of this band it sounds like my idea of hell, a novelty act gone wrong. Let him find out the hard way. How you've kept a straight face with this guy so far I'll never know!

My best advice would get the hell out of there, not wise to wave your balls at this hornets nest :)
 
I saw the same thing in colleage. It was the daughter of the principal clarinetist of the San Antonio Symphony. She had the most natural hands of any player I’ve ever seen, just pure talent. However, she had REAL conflicts with her dad, and he had basically forced her to major in music. In fact, I’m pretty sure she had chosen percussion in school band in an effort to piss him off. She left after a semester. Too bad. I wished I had her natural talent.
 
This is really a parent issue imo. It's one thing if the child doesn't like school work and her parents force her to study (Basic math, reading skills etc are needed to function in life). Music should be fun and not a chore, especially for kids.

How true.

Let's get one thing straight: a ten year old girl is a child.

There are some things a child just has to learn, but beyond that it's not good to impose something upon them they neither desire nor require. A child is still an individual with their own personal needs and feelings. There has to be balance between that and the need to educate them about the basics in life.

It's not good either to tell others how to deal with their children. However, in this situation you have become involved because the father asked for that.
I suggest that you completely leave aside your own objectives and focus solely on the child's needs. Don't carry on with the lessons because you feel something good might come out of it. What does this child feel? If there's really little point carrying on, then you will have to confront the father with this reality. Not an easy task, I'll admit. However, you would be fully justified in telling him. Nobody can force you to carry on the lessons if you sense that it's futile, or even detrimental.

Here's an eye-opening example for you: divorce when children are involved.

When a judge makes a decision regarding the children in this case (custody for example) they take into account only the needs of the child(ren). What each parent wants for themselves is not relevant (my understanding is that this is the common approach in most western countries).

Children cannot fend for themselves as adults can. Sometimes they need adults to stand up for them (unfortunately). You have to decide whether in this situation you have to stand up for this 10-year-old and tell her father that the lessons are a burden on his daughter. The more pushy the father is, the more difficult that discussion will be. But also the more justified.

Only you can really judge this situation. It requires empathy and subtleness.
I hope that the situation is not so unbearable that it will end like this. But as an adult, both you and especially the father have to realise that the child's needs come first here.
 
Living Dead Drummer,

Many, many, (many), haha years ago I taught lessons at a music store. I was the given mostly beginners or children. I found myself teaching the basics, which for me is never an issue cause it's good to go back on work on those myself. but some of the students weren't there cause they wanted to be. Maybe it was 30mins of babysitting so the parents could have a break, or it was a school band requirement. The think I found most helpful was not trying to teach them what I loved about playing drums and music, but finding out what they love about drums and music. While your student may be under duress in being forced to play drums, she's still into music and it sounds like on some level she's into drums. She may just be rebelling cause it's a force situation from her dad.

My advice, (for what it's worth) is to connect with her personally and musically. Not sure what your lesson plan is with her, but have her bring in songs she likes, ask her about those songs. What do you like about it? what don't you like about it? Do the lyrics speak to you? Does it make you want to Dance? If so what makes you want to dance?

Maybe show her some youtube clips of female drummers. Show her different aspects of percussion, like Blue Man Group, Drum Corps, percussion ensemble.

As a dad I never force my daughter to do anything. If she wants to try something then we do it until she's not interested in it anymore, and when that happens I start asking her questions along the lines of the examples I gave you. This helps see if she really doesn't like the activity or if she thinks she's not good at it and that's why she wants to quit.

Trying to make the lessons focused on what her dad wants her to play vs what she wants to play could be the breakthrough you're looking for to getting her more involved.

It's unfortunate that her father has to be that way.
 
I worked my way through college teaching and coaching swin teams at summer pools and the local YMCA. After college it was more full time. I had young kids like this that were pushed by parents to compete. They were not interested, wasted their time, and my time, and were disrupted. I talked to the parents, and let them know that the attitude changed or they were gone. Parents insisted but I put my foot down. Say good bye.
 
I'd just like to reiterate how delicate a subject it is to speak to a mother or father regarding their parenting and issues the child(ren) might have because of it. There's a general tendency to refrain from doing it because of the widely held notion that a parent always knows what's best for their child. Unfortunately, this is not true. Sometimes a parent even gets things horribly wrong. This can happen when a parent's ego and own ambitions prevent them from understanding what's in their cild's best interest and what's not.

I know this falls outside the remit of what would usually be expected of a music teacher but it's important to understand the problematics at hand.
Your posts suggest that you're an engaging and sincere person, Nicholas. I think you'll be able to handle this.

I think the best approach requires a much bigger dose of diplomacy and pyschology than just "putting your foot down". If you terminate the lessons in the wrong way it will likely upset and frustrate the father which in turn could cause the young girl to feel guilty. I highly recommend proceeding in a way that will allow the father to finally see clear and place his daughters best interest above his own. He has to be able to show his daughter understanding, for her sake as well as for his own. This is the only possible positive outcome.

I back the other posts that suggest trying to first engage differently with the student. If that doesn't provide some kind of hope or success, then you'll have to confront the father.
 
Back when I was teaching music lessons (drums, guitar, mountain dulcimer, and hammered dulcimer), on the first day of class I'd talk with the parents and the students in the same room, and I'd tell them as soon as the student did not find taking lessons and playing an instrument fun, I'd have to let them go. I know there will be areas of frustration and work, and every lesson will not go that great, but I would never teach a student who hated playing because the best thing that MY parents did is to NOT force me to play music and they somewhat understanding whenever I wanted to quit piano lessons.

If I was in your shoes, invite the dad in, and tell him that apparently the daughter isn't happy doing this, and you feel guilty by making her do it. But that's just me.
 
By "putting my foot down" I only meant that I stood firm on my decision. I was very diplomatic since these parents were also paying for the lessons or coaching. I was coaching at one time, 118 swimmers between the age of 6 and 18 in a two hour period. Trying to keep an eye on all of those swimmers while one or two did their best to misbehave or just be in the way was a task. I had swimmers that swam for me on summer leagues as well as the YMCA winter leagues. I wasn't a task master, but a swimming coach and refused to be a baby sitter. I have a teaching degree and enough experience to know who want to be there and who doesn't. Being honest with the parents and having them be honest with me normally took care of any issues. i really wasn't a tyrant. I would invite the father to come and observe his daughter in action and maybe get an understanding of where you stand.
 
By "putting my foot down" I only meant that I stood firm on my decision. I was very diplomatic since these parents were also paying for the lessons or coaching. I was coaching atn one time, 118 swimmers between the age of 6 and 18 in a two hour period. Trying to keep an eye on all of those swimmers while one or two did their best to misbehave or just be in the way was a task. I had swimmers that swam for me on summer leagues as well as the YMCA winter leagues. I wasn't a task master, but a swimming coach and refused to be a baby sitter. I have a teaching degree and enough experience to know who want to be there and who doesn't. Being honest with the parents and having them be honest with me normally took care of any issues. i really wasn't a tyrant. I would invite the father to come and observe his daughter in action and maybe get an understanding of where you stand.

Good point. Honesty wins the day.

I didn't doubt that you went about things in the right way GD when dealing with parents and their children.
I imagine the pool environment with it's issue of health and safety would have required you to be doubly vigilant and reactive. In this situation I would even understand if an instructor/teacher had to occasionally put safety firmly above "protecting" people's feelings.
I think I took greater issue with the statement "say goodbye" which I found overly assertive. I would ameliorate this slightly by saying "know when and how to say goodbye".

I suppose this safety issue doesn't apply here. On the other hand, it's the arts. Let's face it, when people push their children to get involved in an artistic field, it might be because of an unfulfilled ambition on their own part. I think it's wise to be sensitive to this possibility and tread lighty whilst still getting the message across that the child might not share the same desire. Hard message to hear for a parent, but it's better to learn to accept the truth.

Someone mentioned the word "happy". That really should be the natural state of a child and first priority for a parent. Shows my own shortcummings that I didn't think myself to refer to the child's happiness.
 
I'm with Mike Stands on that one,
10 is young ; and music is a game.
I give courses to children and teenagers, sometimes adults, not drumming but English and French as a Private teacher.
The approach with a kid has to be really different.

Teaching music should be easier - Music is fun - Language courses maybe not ;-)
My guess, if the kid has good amenities/abilities already, would be to drive courses in a funnier way. When I teach English to kids (sometimes 6/7 year old), I play with them ; I can be academic but only when needed. And with desperate teenagers who doesn't want to take course (it often happens), I speak a lot with them, to focus and find, how could I say - a door to their intersest, and understand them.
Nothing is worse than the one who doesn't want to learn - I know that very well.
But really dont give up on her ; of course her parents may be wrong in their goal, but, if you feel any talent in her, good abilities, persevere.
 
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Ya know after reading the riot act to the father I realize I may have been harsh. I started remembering all the things my parents made me do, at great resistance, piano, tap dancing, football, studying, all kind of jobs (working in construction, on farm, at a meat market, etc) that my Dad got for me so I would appreciate how everyone makes a living. Now to be honest I hated it when they made me do these things (and I tried just being terrible so they'd let me quit which they'd never let me do-I'd have to at least try and perform before I could earn stopping) some I have no interest to ever do again and I don't play piano nor tap dance, but dang grateful they did push me and I'm better for the experience. Hindsight is always 20/20-I'd like to play piano and tap dance LOL.
 
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