DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM   

Go Back   DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM > Drum Gear > Drums

Drums All about Drums and Drum Kits

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
  #1  
Old 03-22-2015, 11:04 PM
KamaK KamaK is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: East Coast
Posts: 5,686
Default Advice on Vintage Ludwig Player's kit

I'm looking at http://albany.craigslist.org/msg/4901332396.html and thinking of putting in an offer.

I can't tell if it's a Super Classic, Downbeat, or something entirely different. I took a look at the http://www.vintagedrumguide.com Ludwig section and couldn't make heads or tails of it. It doesn't look like anything in the 60/62 catalogs.

Thinking of offering $400.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 03-22-2015, 11:08 PM
opentune's Avatar
opentune opentune is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: British Columbia, Canada
Posts: 5,973
Default Re: Advice on Vintage Ludwig Player's kit

Nice ! Love sky blue pearl wrap. Those are great looking, and where i live priced high but not by too much. Personally I would think $400 is too low, almost an insult. Maybe $500.
Sorry, don't know what model they are either.
__________________
Louis
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-22-2015, 11:14 PM
Matt Bo Eder
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Advice on Vintage Ludwig Player's kit

Looks like your standard Super Classic to me. A Downbeat would be by size - 12/14/20, and that's not what this is. It's a regular 13/16/22, that's why I think Super Classic. Nice drums, but with the vintage market the way it is, there may be people who won't think $700 is bad at all. I'd up your offer some.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-22-2015, 11:34 PM
bermuda's Avatar
bermuda bermuda is offline
Drummerworld Pro Drummer - Administrator
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 8,636
Default Re: Advice on Vintage Ludwig Player's kit

Absolutely a player's kit, too many holes, and at least one mod - an improved tom holder (the later version ratchet tilter.) Needs inlays on the BD hoops.

Most important will be the condition of the edges.

If everything else looks and sounds good, and if all of the hoops and lugs are indeed brass, I think $5-600 is about right. But bring a magnet and check it all. Given the modifications, don't assume that everything else is still original.

Bermuda
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-23-2015, 12:56 AM
tamadrm tamadrm is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,849
Default Re: Advice on Vintage Ludwig Player's kit

Agree with Bermuda.Sound is that your paying for at this level.Lots of bad decisions,and holes,but that sound,......if the edges are ok,and shells in round make the deal.5-600 is about right.Just don't hang all kinds of super heavy duty hardware on them,and you'll be fine.The wrap looks really faded,but restored,SBP is a beautiful wrap.Could be a great players kit.

Steve B

Last edited by tamadrm; 03-24-2015 at 03:46 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-23-2015, 04:35 AM
2underpar's Avatar
2underpar 2underpar is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 541
Default Re: Advice on Vintage Ludwig Player's kit

I'd stick to the $400.00 offer. If you offer higher and they take it right away then you know you paid to much. If you offer $400 and they are insulted but begrudgingly you bump your offer slightly and they take it then you know you got a good deal.

Those extra holes are common in a kit that was rocked as a 5 piece in the 70's. You can always add a Rockers mount to cover those holes.

Don't be afraid to ask for a good deal.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03-24-2015, 05:13 AM
NVIC NVIC is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 189
Default Re: Advice on Vintage Ludwig Player's kit

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2underpar View Post
I'd stick to the $400.00 offer. If you offer higher and they take it right away then you know you paid to much. If you offer $400 and they are insulted but begrudgingly you bump your offer slightly and they take it then you know you got a good deal.

Those extra holes are common in a kit that was rocked as a 5 piece in the 70's. You can always add a Rockers mount to cover those holes.

Don't be afraid to ask for a good deal.
These are worth more than 400 even with the holes. A new cheap Chinese junk Kit goes for more than 400. These Ludwigs are some of the best sounding drums ever. Offer 600.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-24-2015, 05:57 AM
paradiddle pete's Avatar
paradiddle pete paradiddle pete is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: down south
Posts: 1,489
Default Re: Advice on Vintage Ludwig Player's kit

I recently offered $700 for a similar kit maybe not pre serial with a lot more pitting on the hardware than this kit, no inlay on the hoops and just 2 sets of console holes and a pretty rusty Rogers powertone, I was gently declined.
__________________
petey poo!
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03-24-2015, 09:02 PM
2underpar's Avatar
2underpar 2underpar is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 541
Default Re: Advice on Vintage Ludwig Player's kit

Quote:
Originally Posted by NVIC View Post
These are worth more than 400 even with the holes. A new cheap Chinese junk Kit goes for more than 400. These Ludwigs are some of the best sounding drums ever. Offer 600.
Sure they are!!!! That was not the point. The point is you can't be afraid to offer what you want to pay for something. Negotiating 101 is you start low, they start high. Then you meet at a price you both agree is a good deal.

Funny OP mentioned $400 because I recently paid $400 for 1968 Ludwig Super Classics in near perfect condition except someone added a Rocker mount and made it a 5 piece. So I got a 5 piece kit, a bunch of hardware and a handful of vintage Zildjians all for $400. The original asking price was $2000. His CL add ran unsuccessfully for a couple of weeks and I watched him steadily drop his price to $1000 "today only". This told me the dude was hard up for $$$.

I never talked price on the phone. That's something you have to do in person. I drove 2 hours with $1000 in my pocket (and a backup just in case it turned into a scene from "Silence of the Lambs"). I figured everything he had was worth the asking if it was all mint.

I was wrong about the Silence of the Lamb thing. It turned out to be like an episode of Hoarders.

Now comes the fun part. They were buried behind a mound of junk and I, in a previous occupation was a professional negotiator who hasn't lost his touch.

After digging and talking, digging and talking (he was a super nice guy) we had the kit pulled out and sitting in the one room (the kitchen) that we could stand in without mounds of clutter.

I initially offer him $200 (an insult yes, but you have to lay down the foundation for negotiations). He quickly refused but came back with $600.

Then he told me he needed $400 or his electricity was getting cut off. So I begrudgingly offered the $400. I packed them up and we departed as friends, exchanging emails and Facebook info.

He lied to me. He didn't need the money for his utility. He needed it to send to his West African Supposed Girlfriend. Had I known I would have never given him the money. But I'm sure someone else would have.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 03-24-2015, 09:15 PM
gdmoore28's Avatar
gdmoore28 gdmoore28 is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 1,191
Default Re: Advice on Vintage Ludwig Player's kit

Start at $400. Don't get glassy-eyed just because it's a Ludwig Classic. It also has a monster hole in the bass drum and chrome coming off the the hoops. You will find more defects when you see it in person. I'm a Ludwig Classic lover myself, but I also know that repairing egregious problems the right way gets expensive.

GeeDeeEmm
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 03-24-2015, 09:29 PM
KamaK KamaK is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: East Coast
Posts: 5,686
Default Re: Advice on Vintage Ludwig Player's kit

I'm going to end up passing. I have this odd compulsion that makes me want to bring the kits I own back into 'good' condition. If I were to buy it, the compulsion would eventually kick in and I'd have to find proper donor wood for the holes, re-chrome, rewrap, badges, etc. At best, another $500, at worst, another $1000.

I hope it finds a good home.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 03-24-2015, 09:48 PM
opentune's Avatar
opentune opentune is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: British Columbia, Canada
Posts: 5,973
Default Re: Advice on Vintage Ludwig Player's kit

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2underpar View Post
Sure they are!!!! That was not the point. The point is you can't be afraid to offer what you want to pay for something. Negotiating 101 is you start low, they start high. Then you meet at a price you both agree is a good deal.

Funny OP mentioned $400 because I recently paid $400 for 1968 Ludwig Super Classics in near perfect condition except someone added a Rocker mount and made it a 5 piece. So I got a 5 piece kit, a bunch of hardware and a handful of vintage Zildjians all for $400. The original asking price was $2000. His CL add ran unsuccessfully for a couple of weeks and I watched him steadily drop his price to $1000 "today only". This told me the dude was hard up for $$$.

I never talked price on the phone. That's something you have to do in person. I drove 2 hours with $1000 in my pocket (and a backup just in case it turned into a scene from "Silence of the Lambs"). I figured everything he had was worth the asking if it was all mint.

I was wrong about the Silence of the Lamb thing. It turned out to be like an episode of Hoarders.

Now comes the fun part. They were buried behind a mound of junk and I, in a previous occupation was a professional negotiator who hasn't lost his touch.

After digging and talking, digging and talking (he was a super nice guy) we had the kit pulled out and sitting in the one room (the kitchen) that we could stand in without mounds of clutter.

I initially offer him $200 (an insult yes, but you have to lay down the foundation for negotiations). He quickly refused but came back with $600.

Then he told me he needed $400 or his electricity was getting cut off. So I begrudgingly offered the $400. I packed them up and we departed as friends, exchanging emails and Facebook info.

He lied to me. He didn't need the money for his utility. He needed it to send to his West African Supposed Girlfriend. Had I known I would have never given him the money. But I'm sure someone else would have.
This whole story/approach sounds totally unethical to me. You took advantage of a situation, a 'super nice guy' and then ...get this, were even a little peeved that you gave him the $400 because turned out he fibbed to you!?

If I have a Ludwig Classic and somebody offers me $200 that is not foundation for negotiations, that is an invitation to the door. I tell them to pound sand, and that I'd prefer to sell to somebody who respects me as a seller, not low-balls me with 25% of my asking price. You are lucky you got a 'super nice guy' who you could take advantage of.

There was a fair price, even great deal for those drums, and you paid below it. Good for you, but we all credit/debit at the Karma bank.
__________________
Louis
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 03-24-2015, 09:54 PM
KamaK KamaK is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: East Coast
Posts: 5,686
Default Re: Advice on Vintage Ludwig Player's kit

Quote:
Originally Posted by opentune View Post
There was a fair price, even great deal for those drums, and you paid below it. Good for you, but we all credit/debit at the Karma bank.
The objective of both buying and selling (anything) is to get the most for the least. As long as none is deceived, there's no foul.

That said, I've bought instruments from crackheads that were hard up for cash for ridiculous prices. I don't really let it keep me up at night.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 03-24-2015, 10:37 PM
opentune's Avatar
opentune opentune is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: British Columbia, Canada
Posts: 5,973
Default Re: Advice on Vintage Ludwig Player's kit

Quote:
Originally Posted by KamaK View Post
The objective of both buying and selling (anything) is to get the most for the least. As long as none is deceived, there's no foul.
If ignorant seller undervalues his snare, drums whatever on his listing price, yes he/she pays for their ignorance. One 'informed' buyer should not go there and ask for even less. If seller asks fair price for item, visibly needs the money for electricity (or whatever else), and buyer offers only 25% of price, that is taking advantage.... but I guess only in my world.

I buy used all the time, and understand dickering and negotiation, but fair is fair. Do people get a rise out of duping ignorant or desperate sellers?
__________________
Louis
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 03-24-2015, 10:41 PM
Red Menace's Avatar
Red Menace Red Menace is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: AZ
Posts: 2,801
Default Re: Advice on Vintage Ludwig Player's kit

I think someone else put it perfectly in another thread, something like: You have the money, they have the candy. Your objective is to get as much of the candy for as little of your money.

Keep looking OP, another great deal is bound to pop up sooner or later. Be patient and check CL several times a day.
__________________
Classy grip all day.

Mah Rogers
Snares
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 03-24-2015, 10:47 PM
2underpar's Avatar
2underpar 2underpar is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 541
Default Re: Advice on Vintage Ludwig Player's kit

Quote:
Originally Posted by opentune View Post
This whole story/approach sounds totally unethical to me. You took advantage of a situation, a 'super nice guy' and then ...get this, were even a little peeved that you gave him the $400 because turned out he fibbed to you!?

If I have a Ludwig Classic and somebody offers me $200 that is not foundation for negotiations, that is an invitation to the door. I tell them to pound sand, and that I'd prefer to sell to somebody who respects me as a seller, not low-balls me with 25% of my asking price. You are lucky you got a 'super nice guy' who you could take advantage of.

There was a fair price, even great deal for those drums, and you paid below it. Good for you, but we all credit/debit at the Karma bank.
Honestly, the gentleman had every right to show me the door. $400 was a very fair price given the situation. If he had the drums all cleaned up and not in a heap of junk I would have offed more. I don't feel the least bit guilty. I in fact feel like I did the drumming community a favor by saving the drums from the junk pile they were in. Karma has always been my friend. If you truly knew me you would realize that I strive to do the right thing each and every day, with everything I do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KamaK View Post
The objective of both buying and selling (anything) is to get the most for the least. As long as none is deceived, there's no foul.
.
Very true.

Last edited by 2underpar; 03-24-2015 at 10:58 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 03-24-2015, 11:20 PM
2underpar's Avatar
2underpar 2underpar is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 541
Default Re: Advice on Vintage Ludwig Player's kit

I apologize to Kamak for hijacking his post. I didn't realize that my post would spark controversy.

My one regret is that the money I gave the fellow undoubtedly ended up in the hands of terrorist. And that my friends is the one thing that keeps me awake at night. I try to tell myself that, if I didn't, someone else would have. But the truth is they didn't, and I did...
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 03-24-2015, 11:32 PM
opentune's Avatar
opentune opentune is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: British Columbia, Canada
Posts: 5,973
Default Re: Advice on Vintage Ludwig Player's kit

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2underpar View Post
My one regret is that the money I gave the fellow undoubtedly ended up in the hands of terrorist.
And that my friend...some would say...is karma.
But you never truly know where the money goes. My last post on this too.
__________________
Louis
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 03-25-2015, 01:42 AM
2underpar's Avatar
2underpar 2underpar is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 541
Default Re: Advice on Vintage Ludwig Player's kit

Quote:
Originally Posted by opentune View Post
And that my friend...some would say...is karma.
But you never truly know where the money goes. My last post on this too.
But knowing it was only $400 makes it easier to deal with. Karma bank restored.

And I'm done. On to more relevant subject matter.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are Off
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off




All times are GMT +2. The time now is 12:30 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Bernhard Castiglioni's DRUMMERWORLD.com