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  #1  
Old 06-15-2018, 04:15 PM
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Default Damage control: take care of your stuff

I guess Iím a little ocd but when I see these it makes me cringe-
Which is worse:
A cymbal mounted on a stand with top attachments completely removed?
Or a concert tom sitting in a snare basket?
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Old 06-15-2018, 04:22 PM
Jml Jml is offline
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Default Re: Damage control: take care of your stuff

Iím no expert but I think the tom sitting in the snare basket would damage the bearing edge, so thatís worse. Iíve seen plenty of cymbals with no top attachments.
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Old 06-15-2018, 04:34 PM
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Default Re: Damage control: take care of your stuff

Cymbal stands with no felt or wing nut on top is not a problem to me and the tom sitting on the rubber of the snare basket would take a while to harm the bearling edge unless it was so loose it slide around easily. and with no head how important is the bottom bearing edge, unless you were indeed talking about toms converted to concert toms.
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Old 06-15-2018, 04:43 PM
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Default Re: Damage control: take care of your stuff

I never put a wingnut on my rides, i do on crashes cause sometimes i turn into animal and they weren't cheap :) i like toms to be in normal mounts though.. just personal preference though, i don't see an issue with it.
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Old 06-15-2018, 04:43 PM
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Default Re: Damage control: take care of your stuff

I never keep the felts or wig nuts on my top of my cymbals.
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Old 06-15-2018, 04:43 PM
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Default Re: Damage control: take care of your stuff

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Originally Posted by Jml View Post
Iím no expert but I think the tom sitting in the snare basket would damage the bearing edge, so thatís worse. Iíve seen plenty of cymbals with no top attachments.
I thought concert toms don't have a bottom bearing edge or bottom lugs? i might be wrong though.
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  #7  
Old 06-15-2018, 04:56 PM
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Default Re: Damage control: take care of your stuff

I don't use top felts on my cymbals, as long as there's a sleeve stopping keyholing you're fine. If the cymbal is free to move it sounds better. Don't watch Simon Phillips whatever you do!

What is more damaging is people who clamp crashes/hi hats down and hit into the cymbal. Sounds crap and they break very easily.

Concert tom in a snare basket wouldn't damage it unless you clamped it so tight the shall cracked.
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  #8  
Old 06-15-2018, 06:10 PM
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Default Re: Damage control: take care of your stuff

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Originally Posted by Icetech View Post
I thought concert toms don't have a bottom bearing edge or bottom lugs? i might be wrong though.
I have 8" and 10" concert Tom's from the 70s. They have no bearing edges at the bottom. It's just a round over.
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  #9  
Old 06-15-2018, 07:12 PM
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Default Re: Damage control: take care of your stuff

I'm getting back into no tops on my cymbal stands now because mine are mostly set-up flat. If yo had to use Simon Phillips angles, then a top is important to keep the cymbals from flying off, I suppose.

The tom issue will eventually damage the edges though. I've done when I was a kid, and that was just when I played at home mostly, so just a tom sitting in a snare basket being beaten on everyday by a kid who didn't know what he was doing. But back then, I think Slingerland and Ludwig both put a metal band on the bottom edge to protect the bearing edges.
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Old 06-15-2018, 07:20 PM
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Default Re: Damage control: take care of your stuff

I had setup my ride at a bit of an angle just trying different things, i didnt' check that it had free movement and now it has a nice 1/4" crack at the hole.. 1 less istanbul mehmet in the world :( It's still fine but i replaced it so i don't make it worse.. love the thing. Mainly posted this in response to always checking for free movement, lesson learned.
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Old 06-15-2018, 07:23 PM
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Default Re: Damage control: take care of your stuff

I don't use felts on the tops of my cymbals, because I feel that it sounds better - more open, less pinched. I still have wingnuts on them, but they're low profile and the cymbal can't physically come into contact with them however hard I hit.

I do not own any concert toms and I do not put toms in snare stands, personal preference on both counts. I have a maple-shell snare shell I've turned into a timbale that occasionally I will put in a snare stand if I'm pinched for space, but we're talking infrequently as a snowstorm in June. Horses for courses, as Andy might say.
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Old 06-15-2018, 07:31 PM
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Default Re: Damage control: take care of your stuff

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Originally Posted by alparrott View Post
I don't use felts on the tops of my cymbals, because I feel that it sounds better - more open, less pinched. I still have wingnuts on them, but they're low profile and the cymbal can't physically come into contact with them however hard I hit.
Along these lines, I leave them off if the room is dead... I put them on and cinch them a bit if I need the tone down the cymbals in an echo prone/small room.
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  #13  
Old 06-15-2018, 07:48 PM
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Default Re: Damage control: take care of your stuff

I don't really see the problem.

I usually have to top felt and wing nut on, but it's probably more for looks. The exception being if I'm using my 8" splash and decide to hit it a bit hard. It will take off.
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  #14  
Old 06-15-2018, 08:37 PM
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Default Re: Damage control: take care of your stuff

Thanks for all the feedback, I would have to agree with the sentiments of the bearing edges will be under attack sitting in baskets simply put. On the other inquiry Many donít have a problem On the wingnut felt-less attachment, my thought is I can see the cymbal swashbuckling on both sides of the mount rod causing keyholing, whether it has the sleeve or not. The inverse of being too tight and cracking along the edges. I could be wrong as most of you have experienced counter measures in keeping the cymbal either flat or just not axe handling them. Something to think about, or maybe not. Well thanks again fellas!
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  #15  
Old 06-15-2018, 09:05 PM
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Default Re: Damage control: take care of your stuff

With my 10" splash cymbal, there are a few song endings where I literally punish it. I'm actually trying to break it. Have been since 2006 actually. The darn thing won't crack. It's pretty badly bent though.

Why you ask? It makes great theatre. A lot of times, it takes off for the floor. I would too. I use cymbal crowns (since I sit on a throne), they are wingnut-less. So the cymbal can breach the post with just the proper force and angle.

People love it when gear gets abused. Just ask Pete Townsend.
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  #16  
Old 06-15-2018, 09:50 PM
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Default Re: Damage control: take care of your stuff

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ransan View Post
Thanks for all the feedback, I would have to agree with the sentiments of the bearing edges will be under attack sitting in baskets simply put. On the other inquiry Many donít have a problem On the wingnut felt-less attachment, my thought is I can see the cymbal swashbuckling on both sides of the mount rod causing keyholing, whether it has the sleeve or not. The inverse of being too tight and cracking along the edges. I could be wrong as most of you have experienced counter measures in keeping the cymbal either flat or just not axe handling them. Something to think about, or maybe not. Well thanks again fellas!
Keyholing is much more likely against a metal tilter rod. I use sturdy nylon sleeves on all my stands, and replace them if they get worn. A metal surface rubbing against a nylon surface is very unlikely to wear at any noticeable rate - the nylon will wear long before a keyhole forms.
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  #17  
Old 06-15-2018, 10:50 PM
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Default Re: Damage control: take care of your stuff

Just tried to look up cymbal crowns on YouTube and couldn’t understand the language of users that demonstrated them. When I get off work and have more time I’ll look into those. I did see the cymbal chief if that’s the same concept, makes me believe that, if struck incessantly hard enough, could at times leave or ride up the sleeve and grate or rake at the hole a bit. Thanks I learn something new when I get with you guys. Also do y’all think that concert Toms on snare baskets that were holding tightly caused a high percentage of out of round drums? Just a postulation. Thanks again u guys! Also for Father’s Day, might want to bulletin this out as well, reverb is having a 15% discount on select gear.

Last edited by Ransan; 06-15-2018 at 10:55 PM. Reason: Misspelling
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  #18  
Old 06-16-2018, 12:55 AM
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Default Re: Damage control: take care of your stuff

Gotta meet ya half-way on the cymbal thing... pretty much all of the stands I use (including on tour) are set-up like this. No wingnuts to handle/lose, no felts to lose, and one-handed on & off. I will have saved at least an hour by the time I'm dead.

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  #19  
Old 06-16-2018, 01:36 AM
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Default Re: Damage control: take care of your stuff

Quote:
Originally Posted by bermuda View Post
Gotta meet ya half-way on the cymbal thing... pretty much all of the stands I use (including on tour) are set-up like this. No wingnuts to handle/lose, no felts to lose, and one-handed on & off. I will have saved at least an hour by the time I'm dead.

Bermuda
I have a couple of these cymbal toppers. They are great !
I want to buy more but I can't find them. Anybody know where I can get more?????


.
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  #20  
Old 06-16-2018, 04:34 AM
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Default Re: Damage control: take care of your stuff

Yes Bermuda what kind of threaded toppers are those?-looks fail proof. Also I checked out the cymbal crowns from larryaceís post, more over, the YouTube feeds lead me to a dancing cymbal crown video that I thought was some what funny, but more of a revelation. It was a broken pronged crown that loosely threads on the cymbal stand and ďdancedĒ as the guy played his snare. I guess in short of my original post was these contraptions notwithstandin, should have been geared towards the use of cymbals just on a sleeve with top thread exposure, which I see a lot on YouTube drum postings. Thanks again for the insight!
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  #21  
Old 06-16-2018, 09:39 AM
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Default Re: Damage control: take care of your stuff

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Originally Posted by bermuda View Post
I will have saved at least an hour by the time I'm dead.
Bermuda
Right? Still, one handed cymbal dismount is preferable.
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Old 06-16-2018, 09:50 AM
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Default Re: Damage control: take care of your stuff

Anyone use these? Seems to fix the problem of the cymbal being clamped down. Or at least that's what they advertise. I have no clue myself.

https://www.musiciansfriend.com/acce...-cymbal-spring
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Old 06-16-2018, 10:03 AM
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Default Re: Damage control: take care of your stuff

Quote:
Originally Posted by bermuda View Post
Gotta meet ya half-way on the cymbal thing... pretty much all of the stands I use (including on tour) are set-up like this. No wingnuts to handle/lose, no felts to lose, and one-handed on & off. I will have saved at least an hour by the time I'm dead.

Bermuda
I think people like "no wing nuts" not because it really saves you time, but you can look really cool if you can swap out a cymbal one-handed while you're playing! I saw Bill Reflin with King Crimson do this while the band was playing and it just looked SO cool. Like "I want to be able to just whip out a different sound just like that!" It's comes across as very orchestral (if not somewhat prog-pretentious) ;)
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Old 06-16-2018, 01:08 PM
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Default Re: Damage control: take care of your stuff

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ransan View Post
Thanks for all the feedback, I would have to agree with the sentiments of the bearing edges will be under attack sitting in baskets simply put. On the other inquiry Many donít have a problem On the wingnut felt-less attachment, my thought is I can see the cymbal swashbuckling on both sides of the mount rod causing keyholing, whether it has the sleeve or not. The inverse of being too tight and cracking along the edges. I could be wrong as most of you have experienced counter measures in keeping the cymbal either flat or just not axe handling them. Something to think about, or maybe not. Well thanks again fellas!
IF it's a true concert tom there is no bearing edge on the bottom to be damaged.
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Old 06-16-2018, 02:26 PM
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Default Re: Damage control: take care of your stuff

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Originally Posted by Reggae_Mangle View Post
Anyone use these? Seems to fix the problem of the cymbal being clamped down. Or at least that's what they advertise. I have no clue myself.

https://www.musiciansfriend.com/acce...-cymbal-spring
If you want to tighten things down I'm sure it'll help.

No problem for me, though. My china is upside down at a steep angle and it stays in place well enough for me.

They say the older version was better.

I've had them in the back of my min for a while, not really for the spring, but for a simpler and cleaner way, instead of having a bag of various felts, tubes and washers, when having having to deal with crappy stands missing all sorts of things.
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  #26  
Old 06-16-2018, 02:43 PM
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Default Re: Damage control: take care of your stuff

What I don't like is a crash cymbal swinging like mad, and when you want to hit it more than once it'll be all over the place. And I only use one crash mostly. Better to have it in check!
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  #27  
Old 06-17-2018, 05:51 AM
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Default Re: Damage control: take care of your stuff

I have a super cheap cymbal with like a 1/2 inch keyhole. I believe it was like that when I got it, but it has gotten worse.

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  #28  
Old 06-17-2018, 08:04 AM
williamsbclontz williamsbclontz is offline
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Default Re: Damage control: take care of your stuff

Quote:
Originally Posted by bermuda View Post
Gotta meet ya half-way on the cymbal thing... pretty much all of the stands I use (including on tour) are set-up like this. No wingnuts to handle/lose, no felts to lose, and one-handed on & off. I will have saved at least an hour by the time I'm dead.

Bermuda
I've never seen those before, that's a genius idea. I don't like felts on top of my cymbals but whenever I don't use the wing nuts my cymbals fly off
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  #29  
Old 06-17-2018, 06:15 PM
Over50drumguy Over50drumguy is offline
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Default Re: Damage control: take care of your stuff

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Originally Posted by Bo Eder View Post
I think Slingerland and Ludwig both put a metal band on the bottom edge to protect the bearing edges.
Correct ! Some had bearing edges some didn’t . Some put protective bands on and some did not though , even if they had bearing edges . Too long ago and too many manufactures to remember which did or did not . But my early 70’s non riveted wrap chrome o wood Ludwig concert toms have bearing edges and protective rings/bands ........

Tried to show larger pics but kept having to resize , as it said file too large
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  #30  
Old 06-17-2018, 06:22 PM
J-Boogie J-Boogie is offline
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Default Re: Damage control: take care of your stuff

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo Eder View Post
I think people like "no wing nuts" not because it really saves you time, but you can look really cool if you can swap out a cymbal one-handed while you're playing! I saw Bill Reflin with King Crimson do this while the band was playing and it just looked SO cool. Like "I want to be able to just whip out a different sound just like that!" It's comes across as very orchestral (if not somewhat prog-pretentious) ;)
Never in this lifetime will I be able to do this! I deeply admire that level of coordination. My whole rickety train would derail so hard if I attempted to swap out a cymbal one handed. I hate overly coordinated and ambidextrous drummers, not fair! My left and right are from like two different planets.
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  #31  
Old 06-19-2018, 06:53 PM
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Default Re: Damage control: take care of your stuff

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Originally Posted by Ransan View Post
Yes Bermuda what kind of threaded toppers are those?-looks fail proof.
I'm not Bermuda . . . but that looks like a Camber T-Top to me. Good luck finding any for sale, though!
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  #32  
Old 06-21-2018, 01:58 AM
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Default Re: Damage control: take care of your stuff

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ransan View Post
I guess Iím a little ocd but when I see these it makes me cringe-
Which is worse:
A cymbal mounted on a stand with top attachments completely removed?
Tell you what, while you're twisting wingnuts, my cymbals are already in the box and I'm gone baby gone. Some things you just learn from playing a lot of gigs, and no top wing nut is one I've come to enjoy. If my kit flips over causing the cymbals to fall off, I've got bigger problems anyways.
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  #33  
Old 06-21-2018, 03:18 AM
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Default Re: Damage control: take care of your stuff

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Originally Posted by motojosh View Post
I'm not Bermuda . . . but that looks like a Camber T-Top to me. Good luck finding any for sale, though!

It looks like this online/store retailer is selling Camber T Tops, kind of pricey but it might be one of the only options:


http://www.newarkmusical.com/product...oducts_id=1058
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