Is learning pro solos good practice?

Jonathan Curtis

Silver Member
I'm currently (attempting) to learn a transcribed solo performed by Jojo Mayer from here on Drummerworld (it's a Lutz transcriptions).

However, it got me thinking, while I can sit down and work through it bar by bar, am I actually learning to play like this, or just to copy and imitate? I realise there are two arguments for this, that I roughly see as follows:

1) Learning in this way will show what the pros are doing, how they apply techniques and rudiments to their playing, and how their playing is structured. Practising from transcriptions will not only aid in technique by mimicing the pros, but aid in creativity and playing vocabulary.

2) It is better to study the conceptual basis of the solos so that the student can make their own, rather than just copying a transcriptions. By learning a transcribed solo, the student may learn to play that solo as it is written, but not how to apply the rudiments and techniques in the same way. It is better to learn how the rudiments can be applied in order to be able to do it at will, rather than to copy how someone else applied them.

I'm kind of torn between the two, and both are compelling. I suppose the reasonable answer is it say both: study the solos, and the conceptual basis so that you can apply it yourself.

What do you think?
 
I don't see how it can be a bad thing.. especially since you seem to realize the difference between copying someone else and learning your own thing from it.

Seems to me this would be a great way to learn structure as well as the actual playing.
 
When we learn to talk, we begin by imitating what our parents and others are doing/saying. This leads to learning the mechanics of talk, before we actually understand all there is to know of speech.
Consider the solos as just another tool. All the rudiments have been written....everything you will learn to do on the drums is just a variation (sometimes not...) of what has already been done.
Learn em, expand on em, twist em up....create your own.
 
Hey Joker,

I do have some thoughts about this topic because, as you can probably imagine, I have had quite some conversations about this with other drummers. I hope I can put this into correct english words because it's kinda complex.... Anyhow... I'll just give it a shot.

I recently saw this documentation on TV about an african tribe that got heavily surpressed during one of the many civil wars. In some villages all the people got killed except for some babys that were then kept in boxes along with pigs and grew up with the pigs. Today, none of these kids can walk or talk because the just never saw other human beings that they could imitate. When I saw this documentation, besides from being struck by their fate, I realized that all we learn as human beings happens by imitation. We walk because we grow up watching our parents walking. We talk because we listen to them talking to us.

It's just the same thing for learning to play a musical instrument: You learn by imitating. That's how you learn your first beats, your first rudiments etc... However: at one point, you automatically start to come up with your own musical statements just like at one point, you start to say your own sentences with the words you learned from your parents, friends and teachers. It might take a long while until you have understood the mechanics of your craft to such a degree that you can create your own style within that craft.

Listen to kids talk.... they need years and years until they can talk correctly. They start with simple words, then sentences. But until they learn grammar it takes years. And even more years until they actually start to create and express their own thoughts.

I see it this way: The more you imitate, the more you learn about your craft, the more you can eventually express yourself. It's just like learning new words, new expressions, new thoughts and new grammar. Different punctuation and articulation.

Nobody would ever see a problem with learning something like a new rudiment or a new drumbeat. It just adds to your vocabulary and it will help you to start creating your new own things. When it comes to learning solos just the same thing is going to happen. Of course, you should know all your rudiments first so that you actually understand what's happening - otherwise it's going to be a bit like reading Kant or Freud when you have just finished to learn your alphabet.

Also, the mindset you have towards the solos is really important. Don't just learn things just so that you know them, but learn them with the intention of using them in your own style. Never attempt to be a second Vinnie or a second JoJo. That's worthless. Playing drums or any other musical instrument is art and in art, a "second" is worthless. Imagine you're a painter and all you can paint is Mona Lisas that look just like the original: Impressive but from a cultural viewpoint absolutely worthless. You have to create your own, but in order to really being able to do that, you have to know what has come before you to draw inspiration from.

There is one more thing I found: You'll likely happen to find that some of the things that other drummers play work for you and others don't. For example: I found out that a lot of what JoJo Mayer or Dave Dicenso play is really easy for me to adapt and use. On the other hand I find it really difficult to get my hands onto the things that Billy Cobham or Tony Williams play. Maybe I have to investigate more on Max Roach, Philly JoJones and other players from that style first, just like you have to read many "older" philosphers until you fully understand the people that came after them and based their thoughts and theories on these.

Worst thing that's gonna happen is that you'll find out that you cannot use any of it. But it'll definetly widen your spectrum and give you a broader view.

I hope this was helpfull and understandable. Sorry for the long post.
 
Both ways are good, and necessary. I would take it a couple of steps further:

- You get much more out of it by doing your own transcriptions.
- Don't limit yourself just to solos- I'd be doing complete tunes/songs.
- Context is important. A solo made for the purpose of sounding amazing on a drumming video may be very different from one that has to work in the context of a piece of music, and satisfy a band leader and a producer.
 
I have a guitarist friend who transcribes something every day. There is so much music out there, that there is always something that catches his ear to transcribe. But after having written it out, and learned to play it, he will take it further. He will analyze it to the point that he understands where the person was coming from when they played it. Work out the concept, see how it applies to various things. Then, not only has he added a couple of new licks to his vocabulary, he has expanded his range of understanding. He can then invoke the concept and either play the original lick, or something else from the same basis.

This (along with talent and the dedication to put all this work in) is what separates the killer players. As folks have said, you start by learning a basic vocabulary. Then you develop an understanding of the nuances. Then you learn how folks have used those vocabulary elements to create things. And finally, you transcend repeating vocabulary to actually create from yourself.
 
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