Weird problem (e-kit vs. a-kit skills)

L

Legion

Junior Member
Hello my fellow drummers!

I have this weird issue I face when i'm playing on an acoustic drumset. While I can play rolls and anything else I want on a practice pad or electronic drums, it just doesn't translate the way I want it on an acoustic.

For example, I could play Liquid Tension Experiment's Paradigm Shift intro quite easily on an electronic drum, but it would feel completely different and sloppy on an acoustic drumset. I honestly don't understand why this would happen, as my technique stays the exact same.

Has anybody ever encountered this kind of problem? If yes, is there anyway to remedy it? Thanks!
 
Re: Weird problem

if it doesn't translate on an acoustic kit then you cannot quite play it yet

an acoustic kit will expose all of your weaknesses where an E kit will mask them

you should always 100% gauge what you can and cannot play on an acoustic drum

because it is an actual drum and the only surface that will give you the sensitivity , and reaction you should seek as a drummer

saying you can play something on an e kit and not an acoustic kit to me is sort of like saying I can ride really well on a stationary bike but then I get on an actual bike and cannot balance, I run into curbs and almost get hit by taxi cabs

you have been exposed.... embrace it and take it as a challenge

only good things can come from it
 
Re: Weird problem

For sure, and electronic kit can definatly mask proper technique.

It is good to have both electronic and acoustic kits in my opinion. I practice a lot on my e kit, but I always need to re apply it to the acoustic kit. Both kits have a different feel, that's for sure.
 
Legion said:
Hello my fellow drummers!

I have this weird issue I face when i'm playing on an acoustic drumset. While I can play rolls and anything else I want on a practice pad or electronic drums, it just doesn't translate the way I want it on an acoustic.

For example, I could play Liquid Tension Experiment's Paradigm Shift intro quite easily on an electronic drum, but it would feel completely different and sloppy on an acoustic drumset. I honestly don't understand why this would happen, as my technique stays the exact same.

Has anybody ever encountered this kind of problem? If yes, is there anyway to remedy it? Thanks!
Click to expand...
I've been the other way around on this one. Maybe I can shed some light. More often than not, things on an acoustic kit I can't replicate on e-drums. Some of it is through the limitations of sound sources and triggers of the drums and cymbals. Basically, I'll play the e-drums like I'm playing acoustic drums, and I'll miss triggers or the snare sound might not be balanced or consistent. The technique and approach is okay, for acoustic.

So like has been mentioned, the best advice seems to be to practice up on the acoustic kit, and get a handle on whatever issues you have there. Let go of your electronic kit habits...it is a great tool for learning and playing, but it's also very limited in terms of technique stuff.

Try striking the cymbal in certain areas of the back of the bow, bell etc. (especially older/less fancy models), you'll see what I mean. Doesn't translate well, unlike a real cymbal, where you can gain infinite sound possibilities.
 
Brian said:
I've been the other way around on this one. Maybe I can shed some light. More often than not, things on an acoustic kit I can't replicate on e-drums. Some of it is through the limitations of sound sources and triggers of the drums and cymbals. Basically, I'll play the e-drums like I'm playing acoustic drums, and I'll miss triggers or the snare sound might not be balanced or consistent. The technique and approach is okay, for acoustic.

So like has been mentioned, the best advice seems to be to practice up on the acoustic kit, and get a handle on whatever issues you have there. Let go of your electronic kit habits...it is a great tool for learning and playing, but it's also very limited in terms of technique stuff.

Try striking the cymbal in certain areas of the back of the bow, bell etc. (especially older/less fancy models), you'll see what I mean. Doesn't translate well, unlike a real cymbal, where you can gain infinite sound possibilities.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, I cannot practice on an acoustic whereas I have an e-kit and can play it everyday. I just find it annoying to know that all the progress I've achieved might be in vain if it just won't translate on an acoustic.
 
Legion said:
Unfortunately, I cannot practice on an acoustic whereas I have an e-kit and can play it everyday. I just find it annoying to know that all the progress I've achieved might be in vain if it just won't translate on an acoustic.
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I wouldn't say "all" of it but I get what you are saying. It's rough not being able to practice on acoustic drums and cymbals.

My main focus would be to practice feel and dynamics on the e-kit, mostly. And not to worry so much about hitting every trigger, or being so precise as to hitting everything 100% squarely and accurately, "on the button". It's hard to describe but easier to demonstrate. Also depending on your drum heads, you could try tuning them to similar rebound/feel as possible, as acoustic. I found this helped a lot for me when moving from one to another.

You might be a far better player than I realize, so if this stuff is redundant, sorry.

I'm sure someone else can chime in with other ideas I'm leaving out.
 
As mentioned, V-kits - particularly with mesh or soft (Yamaha) pads - are very forgiving when it comes to translating what the player does. Coupled with their cool sounds and effects, that's why they're so much fun! But also as mentioned, the real test is whether you can play on acoustics, which is what you'll encounter 99% of the time in real life.

I would strive to find a real kit and work on it, even if that means limiting practice to just a few times a week. Rent a rehearsal room on weekends, find an empty parking garage, or anywhere that volume won't be an issue for someone else. If you're on a coast, find a remote beach, lay down some plywood, and jam!

I don't think I've ever said this, but it certainly applies here: where there's a will, there's a way.

Bermuda
 
bermuda said:
As mentioned, V-kits - particularly with mesh or soft (Yamaha) pads - are very forgiving when it comes to translating what the player does. Coupled with their cool sounds and effects, that's why they're so much fun! But also as mentioned, the real test is whether you can play on acoustics, which is what you'll encounter 99% of the time in real life.

I would strive to find a real kit and work on it, even if that means limiting practice to just a few times a week. Rent a rehearsal room on weekends, find an empty parking garage, or anywhere that volume won't be an issue for someone else. If you're on a coast, find a remote beach, lay down some plywood, and jam!

I don't think I've ever said this, but it certainly applies here: where there's a will, there's a way.

Bermuda
Click to expand...

How right you are. Unfortunately for me, acquiring an acoustic kit is just out of the question right now...unless I win the lottery and build myself a nice little studio.

Oh well, I guess I'll have to carry on with the e-kit and do my best to practice on an acoustic, and hope that the gods of drumming grant me with the power of seamless transitioning.

Thanks for the help everybody!
 
Don't worry too much it's easier fixed than you think. And you don't have to buy a acoustic kit!
I had exactly the same problems like you before, starting out playing only on my e-kit my biggest issues was that i played to softly especially on the bass-drum and I didn't push down the hi-hat pedal down hard enough.
Nothing that I had learn was in vain though! I still had same independence/co-ordination between my limbs, feeling of time etc.. The biggest issue is with e-kits for me was Dynamics and it's something you don't think of on a e-kit as much if you don't have a teacher.

What I did was going to a studio and payed around 10$ for an hour and started to play the things I thought I knew how to play. It got better and better for every time and just after a few months I felt that I could play everything I could on a e-kit just as well on a acoustic.
What I also had was acoustic drum lessons with a teacher once a week and the school also hooked me up with beginners jam-session which gave me more playing time on acoustic kit.

Trying out different studios and different rooms is the best thing you can do, you will get used to different kind of kits and you will learn a lot from being able to play on a worn out kit. Especially if you don't own a kit yourself chances are you will play a house-kit or someone else's and need to prepared on how bad it can be.

It took only a couple months for me to bring me up to speed with my acoustic kit skills, it depends of course how many hours you put in...
My suggestion is that you put in a lot of hours the first times and then when you get the hang of it, go home and play on the e-kit exactly the same way and get it in your system+muscle memory. Then you should try to play on acoustic kit at least once a month just to remind you of the difference and the feel of a real kit.

Except dynamic something else I didn't notice was how different it sound depending on where you hit on the snare/cymbal/pad. I'm trying to focus to hit in the middle of my e-kit snare now but I haven't got it in the muscle-memory yet.

If you can't afford drumming lessons or hiring a studio every now and then use your imagination try to get in contact with other drummers and ask them if you can practice on their kit sometime for a beer or some other favor. You need to get the hours in and it ain't that many.. I started to see a huge difference just after 10 one-hour sessions.
 
Re: Weird problem

WhoIsTony? said:
if it doesn't translate on an acoustic kit then you cannot quite play it yet

an acoustic kit will expose all of your weaknesses where an E kit will mask them

you should always 100% gauge what you can and cannot play on an acoustic drum

because it is an actual drum and the only surface that will give you the sensitivity , and reaction you should seek as a drummer

saying you can play something on an e kit and not an acoustic kit to me is sort of like saying I can ride really well on a stationary bike but then I get on an actual bike and cannot balance, I run into curbs and almost get hit by taxi cabs

you have been exposed.... embrace it and take it as a challenge

only good things can come from it
Click to expand...

I love how you worded this! Its pretty much bang on to what my experience has been. I too was "exposed" upon getting my acoustic kit.

It is true what the previous poster said (sorry haven't figured out the double quote thing yet) that it doesn't take a huge effort to transfer those skills, its just a matter of putting in the time on the acoustic to get used to the different surface response and the nuances of the sound. Your practice on the ekit has not been in vain.
 
I have both electric (Roland TD20) and acoustic. I understand the problem and have experienced it myself. I would recommend two things....

First, get a moon gel pad (which I love!) and practice singles, doubles, and paradiddles on it every day you can using mostly wrist and fingers. Learn to not depend on bounce. Of course a pillow or other 'dead' surface should work as well.

Second, use the e-kit for a lot of coordination exercises and to learn new patterns (including fills and grooves). I start my day every morning at 6:00 am on the e-kit with Syncopation and linear type exercises and found they translate pretty quickly to acoustic. If I did that on my acoustic, I'd be divorced....

Having said that, unless you plan on only playing an e-kit for the rest of your playing days, you will need time on an acoustic to fine tune your skills.
 
I'm in a similar position… I practice at home on a Roland e-kit (otherwise my neighbors, girlfriend, and cats would kill me). When I go in to my weekly lessons, it's all on an a-kit. I've found that it's a completely different ball of wax.

So I've come to grips with learning what I need to in terms of working out whatever is new that week at home on the e-kit, then going into the school where I can rent a room for an hour or two, and working it out on an a-kit.
 
Re: Weird problem

CCdrummer said:
its just a matter of putting in the time on the acoustic to get used to the different surface response and the nuances of the sound. Your practice on the ekit has not been in vain.
Click to expand...

This is totally true.
For the last few months I've been able to practice twice a week, once at home in my e-kit and once with the band in an a-kit and you will notice that in no time you'll be able to do the same things in both, it's just a matter of getting practice time in an a-kit and getting used to the rebound and other stuff.

I also got myself one of those 2 sided Real Feel Evans practice pads and they are much better to practice rudiments than the mesh pads of my e-kit.

If you can't afford an acoustic kit for now, do what some have already suggested and pay $10 for one hour at a practice room and you'll feel the difference in no time.
 
E-kits have pronounced rebound - this will be especially noticeable when playing the toms. Play acoustic more.
 
Legion said:
I just find it annoying to know that all the progress I've achieved might be in vain if it just won't translate on an acoustic.
Click to expand...


It will not be in vain. The transition back to A's just requires a little bit of work.

From my experience, I've concluded that the difference comes from what you are hearing.

If it's a practice pad or E drum, you hear the sound more distinctly, where the A drum has a lot of resonance and overlap. It's only a split second difference, but it matters to your brain.
 
I assure you everything I can play on my vdrums I could play on an a-kit, minus the superior tone and nuances that real drums and cymbals have. All I would need is time to get familiar with any differences in hardware placement. Just as I would have to get used to going from one a-kit to another, or from an a-kit to an e-kit.

Similar to high quality pedals. You probably won't jump right into a longboard and expect to instantly play as well or even like the feel as much as your short board pedal. Doesn't mean one is superior, or that you aren't a "real" drummer for using one or the other.

I can play electric guitar far better than an acoustic, because I spend all my time on electric. Has nothing to do with insufficient experience on a "real" guitar. They just feel different so it takes a while to adjust.

Having said all of that, of course I would always prefer an a-kit, for the simple reason that it is immeasurably more enjoyable and satisfying.
 
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