Who has to play to a click or backing track live?

Larry

"Uncle Larry"
I'm just Mr. Curious.

How do you like it? Do you prefer it? Do you have to wear headphones? Do you feel restrained at all? I never did it. Not even once! A looper is the closest I've come. So do your mates hear what you do? Feel free to bitch about it or sing it's praises, I just don't know what it's like.
 
I've only had to do it once Larry, & I'd prefer not to do it again if possible. The reason was integration of visuals, together with a lot of programmed keyboard arpeggio stuff. I can do it, but I feel stiff in that setting. Not enjoyable, & as it's not putting food on the table, I'll leave it to others.
 
I've been playing to a click for over 25 years. I actually feel freed up when the click goes on. It's like: "My buddy with the cowbell is has perfect time so I just play along with him".

It's much harder when the other musicians are less mature and just go off on their own. I remember an extreme case where I had to take the cans off because the bassist's time was so bad and he refused to listen to the rest of the band. (He played "by feel", gotta love that one).

Live I don't do it much anymore because I don't have to. The bands I'm in right now have solid musicians and there are no sequencers.
 
I've done it a fair bit live and of course pretty much all the time recording. I really enjoy it I must say. The point that has already been made about the standard of the musicianship around the band is crucial.

I depped in a band last year where they had backing tracks that we had to play to. To be honest it made fundamentally dull material much more interesting to me.

Very often I will trigger loops of some kind via my Roland SPD-SX and that's cool. I may have a loop for the verse that I have to cancel for the chorus and trigger it back for the next verse. Sometimes I have done it without a click to see how accurate the time is when I come back... very interesting! Usually I use a shaker-click to just make it easier.
 
I'm doing it on a weekly basis now. We have backing tracks (keys, b/u vocals, some guitar) and click recorded on a dvd which I start and stop for each song. The dvd outs go into my mixer, then out to the stage mixer and foh mixer. I have click in one ear and tracks in the other, so I can balance how much of each I want. I use Shure in-ear monitors.

I've been doing this for a little over a year now. It took me about a week to get comfortable with it. It's really not that much different than how I learned/practiced growing up ... playing along to my stereo with headphones on.
 
I don't think I've ever had a click or track running with my local bands, they just don't play music that demands it. but with Al, the ability to play to a 'click' (and keep the band synched to a video) is probably the most important aspect of what I do. I've been playing to various clicks over the last 30 years, including a drum machine blaring through a monitor. Headphones became a necessity early on, and I still love my UltraPhones, although I've promised our audio guy that I'd look into the new Extreme Isolation phones, primarily because they have a higher output than mine (although I didn't like the fidelity when I tried them a few years ago.)

What I hear is crucial to the success of working with a click. I don't need - or want - to hear a 'nice' mix of the song, because the click is more easily masked when everything's going on. I have a very 'need to know', minimal mix. I have the click panned to one side with the kick & snare in the center, so I can better hear each. (If they were both in the center, they both become harder to hear, and a volume war begins... a war that cannot be won without hearing damage.)

The particular click I hear varies, although it's rarely just an actual 'click' sound. It may be a programmed drum loop, or my actual drum part, or a percussion part... it's easiest to play with another 'drummer'. It all depends on what I need for the song in question.

As for playing with or without a click or track, I have no preference. It's just part of being a drummer, I'm perfectly comfortable either way.

Bermuda
 
In the studio, everyone in my band gets the click. We lock in and never stray, which is awesome. I really like it, to be honest.

Live, I use a metronome on my phone to count songs off (by looking at the blinking lights), but then we're off. I will absolutely look down and check from time-to-time and sometimes we're still on perfectly and other times we're not. When we're not, I find myself pushing and pulling to get us back on. I don't like that. It's not fun and I'm guessing you can maybe hear it in my playing, not sure.
 
My new band recently started incorporating backing tracks, and therefore we also use a click. I've used IEM's for a while now, so that's no longer something I'm getting used to.

I don't prefer it, however when we come up with a new song, I usually play along to a click (before any backing track parts are created) just to solidify the tempo, and internalize it. Once I'm confident I can count the song off within 3-4 bpm of the actual tempo, I'll stop playing to the click and make notes of where the we naturally push and pull, and try to incorporate that into the final tempo track when we demo.

-Jonathan
 
I play with click live all of the time. The guitar players are using lots of delays, lopping and other fancy stuff, so I need to. I'm the only one that hears the click from the band member and I can say that the band sounds tighter. I'm so used to it at this point and that I can play around it and even ignore it when I need to. If you hear us live, you won't guess that I'm using it. Like I'm still able to keep the natural flow in a way. Or at least I think so lol. I could be wrong.

Here is an small example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2brtFM5g1U
 
We put a click through the PA when we practice all the time. At a show, we never play to a clicker, though. We all notice how much more energy a song has when everyone isn't slaved to a literally perfect sense of time, which I feel is not something the human brain needs to hear.

A lot of this depends on the type of music we're playing, too. Larry, you play blues, so a click, especially live would be pretty lame and damn near blues sacrilege. I play lots of up-tempo punk and "hard" 90's style rock, and having it too perfect ruins some of the effect.
 
...We all notice how much more energy a song has when everyone isn't slaved to a literally perfect sense of time, which I feel is not something the human brain needs to hear...

I agree with ya totally, but my singer is a lost cause when it comes to that.
 
I don't want to be in a band that plays to a click live TBH.

That's not why I practice. Perfect time doesn't excite me.
 
I don't want to be in a band that plays to a click live TBH.

That's not why I practice. Perfect time doesn't excite me.

Perfect time can be very exciting, it's what we strived for back in the day!

But that's not the only reason a click is used. I would venture to say that the majority of click use is to sync to a track of some kind (percussion, horns, etc.) where having people to play those parts is problematic in terms of space, pay, mixing.

It's hard for me to imagine anyone being so against working with a click, that they would turn down work.

Bermuda
 
In many bands, since the late 90's.

Clicks, playing to sequencers, backing tracks, I've done it all.

I've done it enough live in enough different bands, it's like second nature to me.

Among the guys I know who are hired gun touring drummers, playing to click live is requirement near 100% of the time.
 
Perfect time can be very exciting, it's what we strived for back in the day!

But that's not the only reason a click is used. I would venture to say that the majority of click use is to sync to a track of some kind (percussion, horns, etc.) where having people to play those parts is problematic in terms of space, pay, mixing.

It's hard for me to imagine anyone being so against working with a click, that they would turn down work.

Bermuda

If I made my living from drums that would be a whole different case. But since I don't, I get to pick and choose what I want or don't want to do. I like practicing to a click, but playing live to one? Not even remotely interested. I'll pass. Recording with a click for some reason doesn't bother me, because it is making a product. A live show to me is where raw musical ability is featured. I would never survive being a professional in today's climate. I give you guys so much credit and respect, even if I don't care to do it myself. Personally Jon, I don't know how you travel all over the world and play in different countries. I would fall over after 2 weeks. So much respect.

At heart I am a pre-digital age musician to the core. Quantifying music...IMO, is the beginning of a whole new phase of music that I don't particularly care for. I prefer non quantified music by an enormous margin over anything quantified. No contest.

Being a drummer...to me is ALL about being in control and leading the time and allowing the human element...flaws if you will...to humanize the music. Not following absolute perfection. That's like painting Mona Lisa to a grid.

I'm not looking for agreement, or trying to change minds, or downing anyone, I'm just stating my own personal view. I know that time is everyone's responsibility, but in the end? The drummer has the most power over the time, by a big margin. He has the final decision.

So in my head, the time is friggin mine, and that's why I drum. Take my time control away and it becomes a job for me. I really don't want to think of drumming as work. If a band wants machine led time....they would be better off with someone who has no problems with it lol. But I have that luxury.
 
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So in my head, the time is friggin mine, and that's why I drum. Take my time control away and it becomes a job for me. I really don't want to think of drumming as work. If a band wants machine led time....they would be better off with someone who has no problems with it lol. But I have that luxury.

It's a nice luxury to have. I enjoy the gigs I do without click, just as much as my primary affiliation (where I'm with a click about 75% of the time.) In terms of my playing, I don't discern between the two... it's all good.

I suspect the type of click also has something to do with your aversion to it. I'll admit that I really dislike the "tock tick tock tick" of a standard metronome, I guess because it's just no fun. A drum or percussion loop makes a world of difference, and locking-in is easy and enjoyable when there's a tight, solid 'drummer' inside your brain. It's very Zen, just like a great groove should be.

That said, not every drummer should be required to play to a click if they don't want to (and don't mind perhaps losing a gig,) and not every genre demands, or would benefit from a click. There's enough of each to go around... I happen to like doing both.

Bermuda
 
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How do you like it? Do you prefer it? Do you have to wear headphones? Do you feel restrained at all? I never did it. Not even once! A looper is the closest I've come. So do your mates hear what you do? Feel free to bitch about it or sing it's praises, I just don't know what it's like.

I do backing tracks 99% of the time in two bands and I have a love/hate relationship with the machine (SPD-SX)

I don't wear headphones. The whole band needs to hear the tracks in order to stay on track.

I don't feel restrained but I certainly feel the pressure to focus.

Generally, I don't prefer it. Playing with a talented keyboard player and horn section would be WAY WAY easier. When I do play with a full band, it seems almost impossible to noticeably screw up.

The praises?

1) It allows 3 of us us to play 4 and 5 piece music.

2) It gives me more to do since I trigger the track segments.

3) It has taught me to write and understand music much more than I ever have.

4) I have to assume that it has helped my tempo ability as well as the bandmates because we have to keep up with perfect tempo while the tracks are playing and we have to be close between segments when it's not playing.



The problems?

1) When I forget or mistrigger a segment, I feel really really bad because it kind of leaves us hanging. If it's a quick loop, I can quickly recover. If it's a 30 second segment, it rather apparent that something is lacking.

2) The added pressure (when gigging) takes some of the fun out of it for me unless the performance is flawless.




As far as playing with a click live? I'm not sure I could do it if no one else could hear it. When someone strays off tempo, I have a tendency to follow them and, within a few seconds, I'm not sure if we ahead or behind. With the backing tracks, at least everyone can hear them, even though they are in the background.
 
I suspect the type of click also has something to do with your aversion to it.

Bermuda

The sound of the click is a non issue, the perfection of it all is my issue.

I'd love to hear someone adjust Stairway to Heaven so the whole thing is at the starting tempo. It wouldn't be nearly the same track. Perfectly even does not move me. It's the little...and sometimes large imperfections that make it interesting.

I do have an aversion to clicks live, even being an audience member. Live music is the last bastion of raw musicianship and it's being systematically diluted of it's humanity.

In any other situation, like recording or home practice, even rehearsals to help come together as a unit it's a great tool, but yea not live. I don't like backing tracks live either. It's watering down the experience, and no one seems to care because people will lap up anything you put in front of them.

Dammit I want to see all the music created right there in front of me by good musicians doing the best they can, with their own sense of time, not a digital clock's sense of time.
 
Re: Do you feel restrained at all?

No, in way, it's actually freeing. I don't have to worry about keeping time, I can concentrate on playing.

There is no worry about if the bass player is rushing or if someone is dragging. They have to play to the backing tracks, and they know they have no choice but to play to me to do it.

No debates about if the song feels slower or faster, no debates about who's leading on stage.

I have the click, follow me or else.
 
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For recording, I prefer playing with a click just because you can concentrate on the performance, and have the time taken care of by following the click.

Live, I play music for fun, and love having audiences react and feeling the music. I could play with a click live, but I'd really prefer not to just because I like that live feel and experience.
 
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