Advice for purchasing a snare

[philosafari]

Hello everyone

I was wondering if anyone could help me find a good type of snare. To give you some background and what I'm looking for, I used to play the drums from the ages of 12-16. I owned a set and took lessons from a respected drummer in my area. I stopped playing when I was 16 and got rid of my set(it wasn't worth keeping, really) and ever since I've regretted it. I'm 22 now and I really want to go back to playing, but I want to ease back into it so that I can have good technique(I've always head that starting out on a snare and learning your rudiments is the best option). So in line with this I'm planning on purchasing a nice snare drum. I want a drum that will both sound good when I play it alone and when I eventually(hopefully) purchase a set. To give you an idea of the type of music that I would be playing, I really enjoy the sounds of certain jazz drummers(Joe Morello, Elvin Jones, Max Roach, Art Blakey, Billy Martin from MMW, &c.). I would ideally like a used 5"x14" snare and I'm thinking some sort of Ludwig(Super Sensitive, Supraphonic, or Black Beauty), but I'm open to suggestions from other companies(I don't know that much about Gretsch snare drums, for instance and could be talked into one, I suppose). I don't think I want a wood snare drum(I wouldn't think used ones would have kept as well), so a metal or brass drum is what I'd prefer.

Also, when I decide which general brand/model I want, what should I be looking for in a used snare? I know that a clean looking one isn't always a better sounding snare, so what identifying marks should I be looking for? How difficult is it to do minor upkeep/restoration on one of these drums? How difficult is it to get a nice sound out of these drums?

Thanks in advance for your reply.

[zarrdoss]

I think you are on the right track, You cant go wrong with a Black beauty, superphonic, or even a black magic for that matter, if you live in an area where you can go check some out and play them would be my suggestion. It all depends on what your budget is, but there are plenty of drums from other manufactures that are in the same category. Getting a firm understanding of the rudiments played on the snare drum is also a good idea.

[Dre25]

I like brass and aliminium, not as fond of steel. If they're made in much the same way with the same shell thickness and size then there's not much in it, maybe just pick the one you like the look of most if you can't decide between the sounds they make. The sonor phil rudd is 14x5 and very nice. So is the pearl jimmy degrasso and of the ludwig and tama and yamaha and the mapex are good too. You can't go wrong. Cool thing about the sonor is the tunesafe if you like low tuning.

I prefer 6.5 depth personally.

I thought the ludwig sounded slightly nicer (might have come down to the head I now realize) and I bought a millenium edition because it was the prettiest.

[mrmike]

My preference for metal drums has always been aluminum so I will recommend either an Acrolite or Supraphonic. You do need to be careful with old drums being out of round, my old 66 Supra was slightly out of round so I hit it with a hammer and while heads fit a little better it still sounds like doo-doo.

My new 6.5x14 Supra sound gorgeous so I have been looking for a new 5x14 and stumbled on to the Tama S.L.P Super Aluminum. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7i3dZBx_uU It should be on my doorstep on Monday. I will give my impressions sometime this week.

[tamadrm]

Just how much do you want to spend?You mentioned the Black Beauty so I guess you know how much a new one costs,which in the US at least varies.

My advice is to buy a used Ludwig Acrolite.They sound great,and you can usually pick one up on Ebay with a case and stand for around 100 US.Don't let the cheap price fool you.The reason for it is that there are sooooo many of then out there.They are not a cheaply made drum,and are absolutey a pro level instrument.You'll probably find one in a lot of pros' arsenals.

If you want to spend more,and being a Joe Molello fan,he loved his supraphonics.I've seen him use supras in aluminum,brass,and a hammered bronze one at a clinic.

Take your pick,you can't go wrong with a Ludwig 400 series metal snare.

Steve B

[radman]

+1 for the Acrolite. If you are getting your feet wet and this is sort of a trial, get a good used Acro and odds are you will get the most bang for your buck.

If, regrettably ;-), the drum bug doesn't stick with you (no pun intended), then you would likely get close to your money back if you sell. Even if you don't sell it, your finances would not suffer.

As tamadrm stated, if you have more disposable income, the supras or BBs should tickle your ears.

If even more disposable income .... go custom. ;-) LOL ... I'm not really recommending this.

Good luck. Let us know how you do!

radman

[philosafari]

Alright. Thanks for the replies. I think I've singled out 4 different snare drums(all in the 5x14 dimension) that I think would be good picks: the Ludwig Acrolite, Supraphonic, and Super-Sensitive and the Gretsch G4160 Chrome over Brass. They all sound like they would be decent to outstanding drums.

Regarding the Acrolite, are there different models within this model? I see a lot of student kits on ebay that, while they look like they're in the high end for student models, somehow don't seem like they would be on par for what I'm trying to do. Is this just me being snooty and refusing to get the children's model or are there actually differences? Which Acrolite series is the best(bear in mind that if I bought one I would probably be choosing between the Acrolite and the Supraphonic).

Also, what are the advantages and disadvantages of the Super Sensitive series? I don't know if the descriptions that I've seen online are really giving me a good idea.

Thanks!

[BGH]

I think for the sound you are describing, you should go with a Supraphonic. To my ears, an Acrolite has more of a wide open sound, a bit more ring to it than a Supra. Acros have a real nice crack to them if you like a bright rim shot. Supras are a bit drier and crisper, a bit more controlled. From what you are describing, that's closer to a Supra IMO. Its also a good compromise in the range you are discussing-its midway priced between an Acro and a BB.

You really can't go wrong with either. They are both classic snares that tons of drummers have used for years. As mentioned, you can score a decent Acro for $100 or less. I got a really nice one on CL for $60 including a case, a few years back. I prefer the Acros with the raw aluminum shell, rather than the gray or black coated shells, but that's just my preference.

For that matter, I just remembered: I got my Supra for $100 also on CL. It needed clean-up and a new strainer, snare wires and heads. But, after about 30 minutes or so of effort, I had a nice snare. Deals are out there if you look.

[cornelius]

5x14 Ludwigs are a sure bet... For Acros look for ones from the 60s (keystone badge). Also ones from the early 70s are nice...

I'd definitely stay away from super sensitive snares - too finicky to maintain, and the benefit of the snares extending across the head really won't help you that much...

The shells are the same (except the finish) Acros have a slightly more ''open'' sound - 8 lugs... IMO the Supra has a little more punch and volume, might be the extra weight of the chrome plating and extra two lugs - I don't know...

I used to think steel shells were beneath brass and bronze, but the steel Ludwigs are really versatile drums.

[tamadrm]

Originally Posted by philosafari

Alright. Thanks for the replies. I think I've singled out 4 different snare drums(all in the 5x14 dimension) that I think would be good picks: the Ludwig Acrolite, Supraphonic, and Super-Sensitive and the Gretsch G4160 Chrome over Brass. They all sound like they would be decent to outstanding drums. I wish I could find the vid of Steve Jordan playing an acro with John Mayer,and Clive Bunker using one with Jethro Tull.

Regarding the Acrolite, are there different models within this model? I see a lot of student kits on ebay that, while they look like they're in the high end for student models, somehow don't seem like they would be on par for what I'm trying to do. Is this just me being snooty and refusing to get the children's model or are there actually differences? Which Acrolite series is the best(bear in mind that if I bought one I would probably be choosing between the Acrolite and the Supraphonic).

Also, what are the advantages and disadvantages of the Super Sensitive series? I don't know if the descriptions that I've seen online are really giving me a good idea.

Thanks!

Yes its you being snooty.The acro is NOT a childrens model by any means.The acro has the same exact shell as the Ludalloy supraphonic 400,the only difference is the 14x5 acro has 8 classic lugs instead of 10 imperial lugs on the supra.The acro also came unfinished(not chrome like the supra),and then finished in black sparkling type of material.We call then blackrolites.

I prefer the 60's keystone badge drums,but the 80's-90's grey anodised drums with the B/O style badges are great drums too,.The later black galaxy type drums are to my ears a little less resonant.

The supersensitive drums are a lot tougher to tune and set up.,and certain vintage models are just plain ridiclous .I know it looks cool to have all those adjustments on the snare body,but they are a pain in the butt.They are meant to be a concert snare,whwere sensitivity is a premium.Also..replacement snare wires are expensive,and in the 70 and up dollar range.It also shares the same shell with its cheaper acro,and supra cousins.

Steve B

[Pocket-full-of-gold]

Another vote for the Supra.

Honestly, they work just about everywhere. For sheer versatility, they're hard to beat. I'm not against Acros.....I just reckon the Supra looks sexier. And BB's are fabulous, but they cost more. For a first snare, the Supra ticks so many boxes.

[steverok]

I own a Supra and a BB, both 14 x 6.5. The Supra is drier, both are great. I've wanted to try this Pearl Sensitone elite aluminum snare. They look very good, with all the right trimmings, and I've wondered how they stack up to the Supraphonic, soundwise.

[tard]

Not sure how much you want to spend but drumfactorydirect.com has all Worldmax black dawgs and black hawgs on sale right now for about 50% to 60% off with free shipping in the USA, some of these snares are upwards of $800 and can be had for just over $300, giving you a brand new awesome sounding snare at almost used prices.

http://www.drumfactorydirect.com/ind...dex&cPath=1_12

[mikeyhanson]

Originally Posted by philosafari

Also, when I decide which general brand/model I want, what should I be looking for in a used snare?

If buying used, I make sure that I research what it is I'm looking at, unless I'm familiar with it already. Then, I need to see and hear it. To hold it. Test it. I don't want to hear anything rattling around or some strange modification made to it that I was otherwise unaware of. If it's not playable, why?

Originally Posted by philosafari

I know that a clean looking one isn't always a better sounding snare, so what identifying marks should I be looking for?

Do the mechanics work? Is there rust? What does it sound like? Is it something you feel like you can work with?

Originally Posted by philosafari

How difficult is it to do minor upkeep/restoration on one of these drums?

On most, upkeep shouldn't be too difficult, provided you understood the basics of the construction and can grasp how the stuff works. With used, it's hard to say because if the drums are in really bad condition, they may be past the point of being kept up. That doesn't happen all the time, but there are some scary things out there that people try to pawn off on others.
With that said, if you do basic cleaning, keep them away from the elements, etc., they should stay in good shape. Restoration? Well, that depends on a lot more things. There are a couple threads around here with restoration projects that are pretty impressive! Hate to see the results of a botched restoration, tho....

Originally Posted by philosafari

How difficult is it to get a nice sound out of these drums?

It depends on the drum and it's associated parts. If they've been treated with any bit of respect, then there's nothing saying they can't be tuned, unless they're such a bad design that they simply can't, or if they've been warped beyond belief. Of course, I would have to SEE and HEAR the drum to know.

If you like the sound of something, look for it or something similar to it. Supra, Black Beauty, both great and possible to purchase on the used market, plus you could easily use them in a band or live situation, even long after you've outgrown your first kit. Most of the major brands would have something similar to the Supra and the BB.
Try to steer clear of the very entry-level model of most brands. If you go up to the intermediate level, the workmanship gets better on many brands. Of course, there are always exceptions to that.
If you buy something just because it's cheap, that may not be what you're looking for. You could hate the sound of it and potentially lose interest. You got rid of your last kit because it was no good, so I'd make sure that didn't happen again with the snare.

[philosafari]

Alright, you guys wanted to hear how it went and here goes...

I ended up going with the Ludwig Acrolite(from what I can tell it's an 80's model). The guy that sold it to me didn't know what he had, I don't think, and the heads were absolutely hideous- so much so that it was obvious that a middle school student had been the previous owner(lots of colorful drawings!). Anyway, here's a picture of it after I put new, nice heads on it.



I haven't quite figured out how to get the horrible ring out of the drum, but I haven't given up yet!