Programmed Drums. Yay, or nay?

orphanpipe

Junior Member
Hello all,

I've not seen this post yet, and am curious as to what other drummers REALLY feel about the phenomenon of albums being released with programmed drums. A lot of up and coming (mainly rock) bands have released their albums with computerized drums, and I find it to be a horrid turn of direction in the world of music.

First, I find that the actual parts being programmed for the albums have no "groove" or better yet, no soul. They offer the deception of groove, but all feel like something is missing...I don't know, maybe a drummer's mind?

I also cannot stand the lack of proper dynamic and tonal changes that are presented when a drummer is recorded live.

Am I being to ruthless here? I find no tolerance in it...but alas, I am a drummer. Of course I feel this way.
 
As a rule, I prefer real drums but I'm getting older and new pop music isn't for me.

What we have is the replacement of artisanship by efficient manufacturing methods, resulting in less ornate and expressive works with a more streamlined, efficient style. Both have their appeal but when it comes to charm it's no contest ... as with architecture:

beautiful-old-building.jpg


11_03_3_web.jpg
 
.... I find it to be a horrid turn of direction in the world of music.
That's been going on, since the 80's.​

Am I being to ruthless here? I find no tolerance in it...but alas, I am a drummer. Of course I feel this way.
I think it depends on the type of music you're talking about. Techno, Electro, Industrial, Noise, etc ...... there are plenty of types of music where programming fits just fine. Classic rock, Jazz ..... not so much.​
Chris Vrenna and Kenneth Wilson (Ginger Fish) are two examples of drummers who program .... and at the end of it all .... a paycheck is a paycheck.​
 
I for the most part really dislikes music with programmed drum parts. I change the channel if it comes up on the radio.
I however like to play drums on top of a loop. The loops could be with drum or percussion sounds. Real drums + loop = life!
 
I think we've had similar discussions in the past, but it's always an interesting topic, personally for me as someone who's a fan of electronic music with programed drums as well as someone who makes electronic music with sequenced drums, I have no problem with it, it presents different opportunities that you don't have behind a drum kit, At the same time it does take away some opportunities you have behind a real drum set, it just depends on the scenario you're in.

Still some people will always put programmed drums to poor use, as will people continue to put real drumming to poor use (I'm not saying new Metallica's use of Lars Ulrich, but, yeah Lars Ulrich)
 
Sometimes they have their uses. I have sent out captured MIDI drum tracks from my E-kit to collaborators as part of the songwriting process on lots of occasions: they can then drive whatever flavor of sound engine they like with my performance, and in general screw with it to their heart's content. I'd prefer that when the tune is being finished, I get a chance to put a live track on it- but it is really up to them.

What I *don't* do is quantize the track to death- I leave quantization off altogether. The track is played live and captured in real time, and simply recorded to MIDI instead of audio. This leaves the little breathing changes in the performance intact, so that it feels like a human performing it, and not so much like a sterile sequence.

Your mileage may vary- but in my experience, there's more than one way to program drums, and capturing live work can actually be pretty decent....
 
Its like any other musical texture...

...depends on what you do with it.

I tend to find it boring and detracting from the positive musical quality of the overall song.

My taste or poor usage?....dunno...
 
I prefer art to be non automated. A lot of things benefit from technology, most I'd say. But art? I'm looking to art to be a last bastion of pure human-ness. Of course that's not going to happen. The newest generation of children will have little life experience with new music that is non automated so they will be imprinted accordingly. I was imprinted with music that was non automated, so naturally I go for that. Progress just can't be stopped.

Or can it? Lol.

Anon's visual depiction is spot on as usual.
 
I prefer live drums. But I like music in general, and if someone wants to use programmed drums in a specific setting, then that's fine by me.

I don't, however, like to see a live band perform with a drum machine....nope, just don't like it at all. Unless it's in addition to a live drummer, that is...
 
Programmed drums are a tool, just like anything else.

Do it badly and it'll sound terrible and be inappropriate for the music. Do it correctly and it'll sound as good as live drums and work just as well or better. The same is equally true of live drums.

People will argue that programming has 'ruined' live drumming but I disagree. Whilst I have sympathy with people that were replaced with machines, there's also an argument about adaptability and expanding your own musicianship. Thirty years ago, I wouldn't expect a professional drummer to have an understanding of programming but now with the inexpense and availability of software and hardware, I would expect most professionals to be at least competent at programming unless their chosen genres are inherently improvisational and unsuitable for programmed drums.
 
I think it depends on the type of music you're talking about. Techno, Electro, Industrial, Noise, etc ...... there are plenty of types of music where programming fits just fine. Classic rock, Jazz ..... not so much.

Correct. It's extremely self-serving for a drummer to suggest that live drums are always better, because he somehow thinks he was denied a gig and a paycheck. Yet that same drummer will complain about having to play a straight pulse, and with an acoustic kit is also unable to generate the sounds required (so he'll then complain more about triggering and sound replacement!)

By the same token, some music absolutely cannot be programmed and feel correct, at least not wihout excessive programming that would make hiring a live drummer more advantageous in the first place.

And there's a lot of music that can - and does - get served well either way. And, the use of programs doesn't automatically mean there's not a drummer doing it. I've programmed and done sound design on plenty of tracks, and I never feel like I'm not a drummer, or haven't added the correct parts for the music at hand. Having programming and sound design to my resume is a bonus, not a hindrance.

But, it depends on the music. Some can only be programmed, some can only be played. Insisting that it has to be one way or the other indicates a lack of understanding of modern music, production, and the needs of the artist. To resent something simply because the drums are programmed seems unprofessional to me.

Bermuda
 
...I find it to be a horrid turn of direction in the world of music.

Music has turned is many directions, with or without programmed parts. It's unfair and shortsighted to suggest a song or genre or the musical climate has gone to hell because the drums were programmed. Lyrics, melody, rhythm, tempo, and production all contribute to music's desirability, or lack of. There is plenty of music featuring live players that can be called into question as well.

Bermuda
 
If I can tell it is a sequenced sound in music, I almost always do not like it. Real drums are always better. Drum machines have their uses though. Peace and goodwill.
 
First, I find that the actual parts being programmed for the albums have no "groove" or better yet, no soul. They offer the deception of groove, but all feel like something is missing...I don't know, maybe a drummer's mind?

Imperfections are whats missing.
 
It depends on the situation for me.

If you're in a band, and just want to record one or two songs to get them out there, but don't have the gear or money to get live drums recorded, I'm in support of it. It's a good, affordable way to get good quality drum tracks.

But if you have a name for yourself, you should always have live drums.
 
When I was a teen, I had a rule about not listening to music that drum machines on it.

But then at 18, I had to make one exception.

Then a few years later, I had to make another exception. Then after a while, I realized it was a dumb rule and I was missing out on a lot of great music.

Then in the late 90's, albums starting mixing real drums and drum machines. People were playing over loops, song were going back and forth being real tracks and machine tracks.

And now it's crazy. Albums take real drum tracks and run them through a computer and quantizie the playing and replace all the sounds. And then there are real drum tracks that get so EQ-ed and compressed that they end up sounding closer to a machine by the time it's done.

We say this or that, and be offended or put out as drummers. And I get that. But machines are here to stay. Nothing any of us can do is going to change that.
 
I don't know, if it's rock music with live musicians and there's only a programmed drums, that may sound weird.

Some of the talk reminds of stuff like 90's d&b, hip&hop, etc. Not sure what is better, the real-thing or drums, concerning rock.

Here is a great drummer I know and took lessons with that covered Squarepusher " Squarepusher Theme". Which do you listeners and drummers prefer , machine or human?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Uli3_agE9I
 
I agree with what Duncan has said. Why dislike programmed drums by principle? Doesn't make sense to me. I do prefer real drums but in the end it has to work for the song, plus the overall approach of songwriting/recording is up to everybody/the specific band/studio/budget. With a bit practice you can create stunning and highly realistic drum programming that even professional musicians would have a hard time to identify.

I find it interesting that in some situations real drums are made to sound 'more electric' to fit in a certain context. Why not? To me that's expanding the sonic range of the instrument.
 
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