insane amounts of practice and potential benefits

Yeah, I know I'm a bit naive but I value dreams above money. Heh, I value almost anything above money, does that make me a communist? =P

It will be interesting to know what happens to those people who think like that when they are sitting in retirement homes many years from now reflecting back on their lives. I took a CNA class at a assisted living home once. I heard all these stories about "regrets" from the patients living there. Not all of them were like that, but many were very grouchy and complained. Money does not bring happiness. That's what I like to remember when thinking about what to do in life. I like to think about when I'm older looking back.
 
The accumulation of material wealth must never be confused with the attainment of happiness. If that were the case their would be many more Kennedy's running around.
However, that said, if you have no money you won't be looking back on your life from the comfort of a assisted living facility. More like a discarded cardboard box living under a highway overpass.
Find your passion, live it, breath it,sleep it. Money will be a natural byproduct
of that process. Don't practice anything, live it.
 
I just think it's much better to talk to people face to face than type on a laptop to be read by anyone..

Whilst I do agree......geographical location and distance makes it impossible. Surely that's the whole idea behind a forum? In a perfect world I'd love nothing more than to sit in the same room as all of you and discuss all of the forum issues face to face.....alas, until we can figure out a way to Skype 25,000 odd members and countless guests at the same time, this is all we have.


I, me, my - not important.

Yes, but more often than not the only experience we have to draw on is our own. I can't speak for you as I have no idea of your life experiences. I can only speak for 'me'. For mine (oh, the irony...lol), that totally validates "I, me, my" in the context of this forum. I just take it as a given that the majority of posts come from a personal perspective.
 
The accumulation of material wealth must never be confused with the attainment of happiness. If that were the case their would be many more Kennedy's running around.
However, that said, if you have no money you won't be looking back on your life from the comfort of a assisted living facility. More like a discarded cardboard box living under a highway overpass.
Find your passion, live it, breath it,sleep it. Money will be a natural byproduct
of that process. Don't practice anything, live it.

Yeah, but that subject isn't binary in nature. It isn't "either or". What I'm saying, most people are too much motivated by money. I mean you can live with quite a small income if you have a dream to pursue. For some the biggest dream is to build a family and have a nice house and that's ok and then you propably have to pursue for a little bigger and for more stable income also. But that's not where some of us are. Dreams also change, families break.
 
Pocket full of Gold,

I fully appreciate personal help and/or advice prefixed by I, me, IMO. I'm here to learn as well as commune w/ others.

It was light-hearted (and not personal) note about being humble, because frankly there was little humility in some of the replies... they were simply about 'I'.
 
Yeah, but that subject isn't binary in nature. It isn't "either or". What I'm saying, most people are too much motivated by money. I mean you can live with quite a small income if you have a dream to pursue. For some the biggest dream is to build a family and have a nice house and that's ok and then you propably have to pursue for a little bigger and for more stable income also. But that's not where some of us are. Dreams also change, families break.

I wanna be a rock god. I'll be hella-broke until I am.
 
Great thread! The thing that I would like to add to the conversation is that I've come to realize that practice must be driven by the music you play.

The drumkit definitely requires a certain amount of technique and coordination to play well, but it is afterall and accompanying instrument. (At least in most cases) Therefore it requires not just solitary practice, but time on the bandstand playing with other musicians. It also requires listening to and watching great ensembles so that you can better understand your role in the ensemble. Having great ears is more of an asset than having great hands.

I guess what I'm saying is that 'practice' is not just done on the instrument. I may not practice 8 hours a day, but there are many days when my practice + gigging and/or rehearsing easily adds up to 8 hours. And a day like that is usually, though not always, more productive than just being in the practice room.

Any practice you can get in between gigs and sessions is obviously going to make a big difference but it's not more important than the gigs or sessions. Without gigs and sessions practicing is just a hobby. Another thing that I do, is a lot of deep listening and transcribing. That to me, definitely counts as practicing!
 
It was light-hearted (and not personal) note about being humble, because frankly there was little humility in some of the replies... they were simply about 'I'.

My replies were actually about the cost. I did this but at what "cost"?

I paid a huge price.
 
Wy Yung,

I guess I didn't get where you were coming from. I apologize. And, I apologize for it coming off personal, which wasn't my intention.

Paul
 
Wy Yung,

I guess I didn't get where you were coming from. I apologize. And, I apologize for it coming off personal, which wasn't my intention.

Paul

Paul mate, no worries. I was having a bad week where I was reflecting on my life. All that effort, was it worth it??? What the hell have I been doing??? Kind of thing. Then this thread popped up and I'm a living example of the title. For good or bad. I am proud of what I achieved, of course. I often think about the hundreds of anti rape classes I taught. The battered wives I helped. Now after that week and the patience of the members here, I feel much better. And I fully understand where Royal is coming from and respect him for it.

If I have any talent at all it is this: I have the ability to concentrate for many hours at a time.

That's it.

Now I'm going to read this thread only and wont post here again. Thanks all.
 
Oh Hell Caz, are you trying to make me cry??? Man, I wonder. My brother is a very successful producer. A few weeks ago he said to me "You really aren't successful!" but I had to wonder. I have taught anti rape classes, I've taken mor than 300 pupils from white to black belt... WTH is success????

Is it money alone? In which case I am a failure. But ask Polyana, can I play drums? If so is that not success?

No one can measure success except the person living that life mate. Your brothers measure of success in life is going to be very different to how you would measure success. Obvious but very true. Most people consider their life a success if they are financially well off or successful. Why that is such a measure of success is beyond my comprehension.

I think the simplest way to look at whether your life has been a success is if you feel pride, contentment and happiness at what you've achieved in life. If you're homeless but feel that you've accomplished whatever it is that makes you content, happy and maybe that you have reached a certain feeling of satisfaction in life, then that's all that matters.

You can't judge your brothers views on success to your own life. They aren't your own measures of success. If he has done well financially and considers his life a success so far, but is really completely miserable deep down, then his life is being judged by the social constructs that say 'you are successful if you are wealthy'. It is complete BS.

How many monks are wealthy in $ terms? Unless they are corrupt, not a single one, and yet they are among the most truly happy, contented people on earth. Everyone has there own way of looking at things and when you start losing your way and looking at your own life from the perspective of others it can skew your thinking and make you think you might not have accomplished what you should have compared to what others think you should have tried to do.

Some of my most accomplished years were also in martial arts, in which I was also an Australian Champion twice, competed in world championships, flew across the world with it, was on TV etc etc. I have great memories from those years and everyone I've talked to considers that a huge achievement and are amazed at it all, but, I don't consider it an achievement at all. I was teaching a lot, practicing, studying etc etc and became hugely burnt out. I stopped everything all of a sudden and disappeared from it. Myself, I feel like those years were unsuccessful whereas most people would look at that and consider it a great accomplishment. It's all about perspective.

I've been well off financially when I got a job in the share trading sector when I thought music would never do enough for me. That felt like the biggest waste of time in my life so far. Completely pointless, no matter how much money I was getting. There were a lot of people I worked with who hated what they did, but they put in ridiculous hours and spent every waking moment trying to get further ahead because it gave them a lot of cash. Doesn't make them a success and it certainly didn't make them happy. They were the most miserable, boring people I've ever met. I'm sure they consider themselves a success and probably many others do too, when they see driving past in a nice car. Luckily though, they didn't have to meet them.

I've done a lot of other interesting stuff in life, as everyone has. I was sponsored for skateboarding when I was younger and toured Aus in competition, was in magazines etc, and again people are amazed, but I don't feel happy because of it. It's just another thing in life. Music has been the one constant in my life that has been a success and given me a sense of pride and happiness. Even though I stopped doing it for many years, which was when I was making lots of money, it was something I constantly thought about to the point that I felt I had lost what I was meant to do.

I decided that my first choice was right and started to practice again. Went to school for it and realise now that the social constructs that make someone become an accountant when they would rather be an artist etc, got to me too. Thinking I had to make money to be successful was silly. I've had great times playing and been the most fulfilled when doing it, whether playing or practicing for hours, weeks and years on end. I'm sure that at the end of my life, I will not look back and say to myself, "Gee, I really wish I had earned more money and been financially successful" because I can't take anything with me after life apart from a feeling of contentment and happiness that the only shot at life I had was well lived. What else can you do?

Everyone looks at someone else and thinks they might have accomplished more and are doing better or whatever, forgetting that that person feels the same way about you no doubt. You've got to find that thing in life which is yours alone and thinking about other peoples perspective on success is the wrong way of going about it. Maybe like yours, my brother would be considered more successful than me because he has a top position as a Design Director at a huge international firm and yet whenever I see him he looks drawn, tired, exhausted and somewhat unhappy. His opinion is that position, status and wealth will make him happy. He's been wrong so far.
 
well, there are quite a few pro's that have great groove and are good with playing with others. I know you need a lot to be a pro, but it's not some mystical, unreachable goal, yes you need a lot of practice, but i think it's all about the music you want to play.
not basghing the rock guys, but if you practice like a madman at rock, you can be a pro, get what i'm saying? Wheras with jazz, you could be great,but be no where near others......i don't think i'm really getting my point accross!

some people are happy with earning enough to survive doing what they love, and even though they are not brilliant pro's, they love it too much to get a better paying job, i think this all differs from each individual.
Like for me, i am at school ALL day! But i have found that i can get a lot of practice done in my head! Sounds stupid, but i have sat behind a kit and realised that i was playing something i have been MENTALLY playing for ages, it won't work for every groove, that stupid....but i have had some crazy moments where i didn't have to practice a hard groove PHYSICALLY, i really count that as practice
 
My take on success is the richness of the person.

My kids live, play and go to school in a part of the world were there are both, very needy children and very wealthy people. As children they ask very honest questions about having and not having. We have enough BTW. But they do get caught up in 'wanting' stuff and they'll say something like "I wish we were rich..." because they naturally want more.

My wife and I respond to this by reminding them that,

"We are rich, we just don't have a lot of money"
 
Many pro's have stories about putting in 8 to 12 hour days woodshedding.
And I believe to get to a certain point, you do need that.

But also everyone is different, and what an hour of practice does for one person may not accomplish the same thing for someone else.

I only spent a year teaching, but I had one student who took weeks to learn one beat, and while another student could learn a new beat with in 5 minutes of me showing it to him. People just absorb information at different rates.

When I was at PIT, between classes, workshops, individual practice time, and band practice, I was doing something drumming 8-12 hours a day for a year. Since then, it's rough, having to work a day job.

I often think what separates some pros from the non pros is once a person gets into a situation where they don't have to worry about side income, they have more time to practice, not to mention the experience of touring/recording.

I often look back and think, "If only I had put in even more hours, maybe this or that would have been different for me" but then again, I know of drummers who are incredible players, who could play rings around me with one hand tied behind their back, have had a few good gigs, but in the end, aren't in any better of a situation.
 
I do practice for 1 hr top at a time, then I get tired of being in a quasi dark room with headphones on and nothing much to look at.
I need to take a break and spend time with my family and I feel guilty that I might be missing something.
I do listen to one song to infinity while I ride the commuter train to work. A total of 1 1/2 hours a day till I got the song down and I can cover it easily. But usually by then I am sick of it.
I read here that Ringo starr never practiced anything and only learned by gigging. Wish I could do that and learn while having fun with others.
But that's not my reality at 57 years of age and I play for myself anyway and it's not a race.
I want drumming to remain fun for me (too much time, effort and money into it to let it go sour). Moderation is the way for me and the rest will sort itself out.
 
This is an excelent post in an excelent thread.


No one can measure success except the person living that life mate. Your brothers measure of success in life is going to be very different to how you would measure success. Obvious but very true. Most people consider their life a success if they are financially well off or successful. Why that is such a measure of success is beyond my comprehension.

I think the simplest way to look at whether your life has been a success is if you feel pride, contentment and happiness at what you've achieved in life. If you're homeless but feel that you've accomplished whatever it is that makes you content, happy and maybe that you have reached a certain feeling of satisfaction in life, then that's all that matters.

You can't judge your brothers views on success to your own life. They aren't your own measures of success. If he has done well financially and considers his life a success so far, but is really completely miserable deep down, then his life is being judged by the social constructs that say 'you are successful if you are wealthy'. It is complete BS.

How many monks are wealthy in $ terms? Unless they are corrupt, not a single one, and yet they are among the most truly happy, contented people on earth. Everyone has there own way of looking at things and when you start losing your way and looking at your own life from the perspective of others it can skew your thinking and make you think you might not have accomplished what you should have compared to what others think you should have tried to do.

Some of my most accomplished years were also in martial arts, in which I was also an Australian Champion twice, competed in world championships, flew across the world with it, was on TV etc etc. I have great memories from those years and everyone I've talked to considers that a huge achievement and are amazed at it all, but, I don't consider it an achievement at all. I was teaching a lot, practicing, studying etc etc and became hugely burnt out. I stopped everything all of a sudden and disappeared from it. Myself, I feel like those years were unsuccessful whereas most people would look at that and consider it a great accomplishment. It's all about perspective.

I've been well off financially when I got a job in the share trading sector when I thought music would never do enough for me. That felt like the biggest waste of time in my life so far. Completely pointless, no matter how much money I was getting. There were a lot of people I worked with who hated what they did, but they put in ridiculous hours and spent every waking moment trying to get further ahead because it gave them a lot of cash. Doesn't make them a success and it certainly didn't make them happy. They were the most miserable, boring people I've ever met. I'm sure they consider themselves a success and probably many others do too, when they see driving past in a nice car. Luckily though, they didn't have to meet them.

I've done a lot of other interesting stuff in life, as everyone has. I was sponsored for skateboarding when I was younger and toured Aus in competition, was in magazines etc, and again people are amazed, but I don't feel happy because of it. It's just another thing in life. Music has been the one constant in my life that has been a success and given me a sense of pride and happiness. Even though I stopped doing it for many years, which was when I was making lots of money, it was something I constantly thought about to the point that I felt I had lost what I was meant to do.

I decided that my first choice was right and started to practice again. Went to school for it and realise now that the social constructs that make someone become an accountant when they would rather be an artist etc, got to me too. Thinking I had to make money to be successful was silly. I've had great times playing and been the most fulfilled when doing it, whether playing or practicing for hours, weeks and years on end. I'm sure that at the end of my life, I will not look back and say to myself, "Gee, I really wish I had earned more money and been financially successful" because I can't take anything with me after life apart from a feeling of contentment and happiness that the only shot at life I had was well lived. What else can you do?

Everyone looks at someone else and thinks they might have accomplished more and are doing better or whatever, forgetting that that person feels the same way about you no doubt. You've got to find that thing in life which is yours alone and thinking about other peoples perspective on success is the wrong way of going about it. Maybe like yours, my brother would be considered more successful than me because he has a top position as a Design Director at a huge international firm and yet whenever I see him he looks drawn, tired, exhausted and somewhat unhappy. His opinion is that position, status and wealth will make him happy. He's been wrong so far.
 
gotta say jazzin, brilliant post man! what you're saying is totally true. I know a few people now who are only 18 and studying to be doctors. To get good grades they literally study 10 hours a day, stay up until 4 in the morning before tests and live off of redbull, and when they do get good grades, they have 4 or 5 years of learning in a hospital, and all for the money and to follow in their daddy's footsteps, not to help people. Which is okay i guess, but they could end up dying of work and stress in their early 30's. Meanwhile if i do become a musician, i won't earn a lot of money unless i'm lucky, but i enjoy working towards it and damn if i'm gonna enjoy doing it.

I find it strange that you don't find the skateboard and karate things an achievement, but thats life, and individuality! beautiful stuff!
 
if you want to practice for that long i'd say make some kind of schedule for it ..

hour 1 stick control
hour 2 stick control with feet
hour 3 some sort of coordination related book (new breed or extreme interdependance)
hour 4 linear funk drumming
hour 5 jazz/afro cuban
hour 6 combine parts of different things you learned that day and play to various music minus drums things in the different styles (you just spent 5 hours working on beats and stuff.. now put them to music so you don't become mechanical and and lose the feel)

another way could just be grabbing a drum book and going at the same book for 6 hours . depending on how big of a book it is you could take a large chunk out of it
 
another thought ... . if you can't figure out something an an hour .. odds are you might not be able to in 2 or 3 hours ... I personally can't sit behind a set smashing my head against a wall for 3 hours on something that just isn't happening . I'd change to something else then get back to it.

believe it or not .. practicing mentally also helps .. just visualizing yourself playing something .. or having 1 exercise from a book cycling through your mind
 
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