"I'd take Visions over Saturns any day. And even over Masters" (Music Store Salesman) (??)

Hi everybody. I hope a lot of you read this post and give me a hand, 'cause I'm more confused than ever.

[This is quite a long post so if you want you can skip this intro and go right to the question, Thanks]

Here's the deal: For about a month now I've been doing my homework, searching and reading A LOT of old DW threads, checking websites, watching videos, etc. in order to decide on which kit to buy. I've been playing for 8 years, my kit is a Pearl Forum and I really really feel the "need" for an upgrade.

Today I spent the whole afternoon going from shop to shop to see for myself and try the different kits. This is the list of prices for some kits in my country (beware 'cause they're shockingly higher than in the US):

- Mapex Saturn 6 piece (22,10,12,14,16,14SD) = $3.200
- Pearl Masters Custom 5 piece (22,10,12,14,14SD) = $2.950
- Pearl Vision VMX 5 piece (22,10,12,14,14SD) = $2.000
- Mapex Meridian Maple 5 piece Rock Config (24,13,16,18,14SD) = $1.600
- Mapex Meridian Birch 5 piece Rock Config (24,13,16,18,14SD) = $1.300

All of them with hardware and snare drum. Pearl's HW is better but Mapex's ain't bad at all. Meridian Maples come with 2.3mm PowerHoops and spring loaded floor tom legs. Meridian Birchs come with regular 1.6mm hoops and standard FT legs.
Maybe it's worth mentioning that I also considered Yamaha Stage Customs ($1900), New Gretsch Catalinas ($1.700) and Tama Superstars ($1.650). Yamaha here is just ridicously expensive, Gretsch Catalina's hardware is pretty lame (tom holders, rods, lugs, etc) and Superstars are great but they really don't attract me at all (the wraps and those long lugs aren't for me).

Today I tuned and played a Catalina Birch, It sounded really nice, but damn, the hardware and the new tom holder (the one that attaches to just 2 rods) was really a deal breaker there.
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And well, here come my questions:

At the last store I went, a really cool guy helped me out with my concerns. He was a middle-aged drummer whom from his stories must have been playing for about 30 years.

We engaged in a typical drummer's chat, about bearing edges and woods and hardware, you know.. So after maybe an hour (really) of really cool chatting I asked him "well, what would you buy if you were me?", and he stated some of the following lines, which confused me and quite shocked me a lot:

1- "Pearl is making a clever marketing move here.. The Visions are the same shells that the Masters, and even better I'd say, 'cause they have 8 plys on FTs and BDs while the Masters have 6 plys all over".

2- "They put this shitty ISS tom mounts and 1.6mm hoops to reduce costs, but upgrade to Optimounts and 2.3mm Superhoops and you have not only the same kit, but IMO a better one".

3- "They may be in the same price category, but soundwise, Catalinas can't even sit next to Visions, Superstars or Meridians, they're out of the game"

4- "I'd take Visions over Saturns any day" (I think this is a bit extreme).

5- "The key is in how Pearl makes the shells (SST). They have the best manufacturing procedure, and that shows".

6- "Meridians aren't bad... but Visions are by all means much superior kits". (I didn't consider it this way)

7- "No one beats Pearl Hardware. Not even Yamaha, Tama or even DW". (Again, a bit of an overstatement I think...). His reason: "From all the rehearsal studios in this city, the kits that survived the abuse the longest are the Exports".
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So, after all of this (if you made it this far, thank you)... What's your opinion???

I've listened to Meridian Kits and I think they're REALLY decent drumkits, and they're half the price of the Visions!

If you were me, would you wait maybe a year more and get the Masters or a Saturn?

Or... would you also wait but grab a Vision kit and put the Optimounts and Superhoops?

Or... would you get now a Meridian Maple or Birch Kit? (Damn, rock sizes aren't so versatile, but they're sexy as hell).

Or... another option??

I really apreciatte any help you can give me, I'm really confused. I want a new kit and I wanna make a good buy, it's too much money to regret it later. :/

Thanks for reading.

PS: This man's kit is a Pearl Reference. Some statements above may sound arrogant or rude, but by no means that was his attitude, he was really cool, respectful and seemed to know what he was talking about. And by the way, in the store they sell all those drums. He could have just told me to buy the most expensive one, but he didn't, so that intrigues me.

Re: "I'd take Visions over Saturns any day. And even over Masters" (Music Store Salesman) (??)

Re: "I'd take Visions over Saturns any day. And even over Masters" (Music Store Salesman) (??)

It's true the old exports have held up well, but we're not buying an old export are we? Past performance is no guarantee of future performance.

Everyone has opinions and here are mine:

Yamaha has the best designed/sturdy hardware
Mapex is a close second, closer in design than sturdiness, but still teriffic.
Pearl visions are overpriced.

Shell plys, wood, and manufacturing processes don't matter unless you're spending upwards of 5000. Hardware is the first thing on a kit that is going to break from wear, the shell isn't going to just start falling apart one day.

When buying a kit, my highest priority is longevity, reliability, and I believe this comes down to the quality of hardware.

full disclosure: I own a mapex m birch kit (essentially same as meridian) I am pleased with it.

Re: "I'd take Visions over Saturns any day. And even over Masters" (Music Store Salesman) (??)

Maybe go in there again and do a blind test so you can make an un-biased decision. Just stand a ways away and have him play all the kits for you.
Now my only question is, if you were to go with what he said and buy a vision kit and upgrade the hoops and mounts, how much would the total be in comparison to the other kits?

-Jonathan

Re: "I'd take Visions over Saturns any day. And even over Masters" (Music Store Salesman) (??)

ive got visions (VBX) and i find them brilliant. the 900 series hardware is strong and will last as long as the kit. ive always been a pearl man, because you get alot of bang for your buck here.

Re: "I'd take Visions over Saturns any day. And even over Masters" (Music Store Salesman) (??)

Maybe he's right about the shells, who knows?. I mean Pearl is all Asian made right?.
I dont have a problem with Asian products. My kit is made in China and it sounds freakin fantastic (Sonor 3007).

My issue here is the whole making a Pearl Vision/Masters hybrid thing.
It is just a bit of a cheezy way to go IMHO.

If it were me, I would get one of the Mapex kits, but I couldnt wait for a whole year to get the Saturn or Oriens (even though they are totally BA).
The Meridians are just too good and the prices you listed are very reasonable compared to the others.
Yup, I would just choose which one I like better (birch or maple. I happen to like maple) and grab it up so you can start playen em straight away.
But thats just me.

Re: "I'd take Visions over Saturns any day. And even over Masters" (Music Store Salesman) (??)

PreppieNerd said:

Shell plys, wood, and manufacturing processes don't matter unless you're spending upwards of 5000.

Click to expand...

Sorry Preppie, got to disagree with that, especially concerning accuracy of bearing edges & shell roundness/stability. My son has a Vision kit, & the bearing edges are a joke. Ok, he might just be the unlucky one, but still, not good. The other thing I've noticed on the Pearl kits is the really bad overlap seam on the inside of the shell. I first saw this on my son's Visions, but I noticed the same thing on a Masters set in my local drum store. Maybe there is some truth in the same shell claim. Either way, I can sort of accept that crudity on a Vision, but on something the price of a Masters kit, I don't think so.

I have nothing against Pearl in general. I think their hardware is mostly very good (although most of the nylon cymbal stand clamp inserts have fractured on my son's kit), but I'm consistently unimpressed with their sound/shell quality. The Export was a great kit for the money. I'm not so sure about the latest incarnations of that line.

BTW, completely agree about those tom mounts on the Visions. Who the hell thought that would be a good idea? I can imagine the conversation between the design & sales departments.

Sales---- "just make me something that looks like an isiolation mount but much cheaper"(hands over sketch), Design----- "ok, but if we make this, all the weight will be hanging off one section of a very weak hoop. That will distort the hoop, make tuning a nightmare, make the drum very insecure, & It'll sound like a cardboard box when you mount it". Sales------ "Yes, but they'll never try this in the store, & most of these kits are bought online, they'll never know. We'll equip them with really crap heads to disguise this. Most customers keep these heads for a while, & blame them for the crap sound. Once they get round to putting good heads on, most kits will be out of warranty. Anyhow, they'll only blame their own tuning skills. After a year or two, when they've really worked out how crap the kit is, they'll be looking to upgrade. Because they like our hardware, & they've spent the last two years telling their pals how great Pearl are, we stand a good chance of getting the sale".

Re: "I'd take Visions over Saturns any day. And even over Masters" (Music Store Salesman) (??)

Dont think I ever met a salesman that wasn't cool or nice.. there job is to sell and in most cases lean you toward the product they get the biggest comission on.. maybe there co. has a big ensentive program on visions for the holidays. They can be very helpful with there info but always keep in mind there motive... let your ears be the judge keeping in mind heads..I think pearl drums come with 2 ply heads so they may sound better then the Mapex's if they come with a single ply china made head like my Sonor 3007's did...all that being said.. I really dont think you can go wrong with the masters or the saturns

Re: "I'd take Visions over Saturns any day. And even over Masters" (Music Store Salesman) (??)

keep it simple said:

Sales---- "just make me something that looks like an isiolation mount but much cheaper"(hands over sketch), Design----- "ok, but if we make this, all the weight will be hanging off one section of a very weak hoop. That will distort the hoop, make tuning a nightmare, make the drum very insecure, & It'll sound like a cardboard box when you mount it". Sales------ "Yes, but they'll never try this in the store, & most of these kits are bought online, they'll never know. We'll equip them with really crap heads to disguise this. Most customers keep these heads for a while, & blame them for the crap sound. Once they get round to putting good heads on, most kits will be out of warranty. Anyhow, they'll only blame their own tuning skills. After a year or two, when they've really worked out how crap the kit is, they'll be looking to upgrade. Because they like our hardware, & they've spent the last two years telling their pals how great Pearl are, we stand a good chance of getting the sale".

Click to expand...

LOL.
Anyway, I don't really get why Sonor is never brought up when it comes to hardware. I've had mine for several years, gigged with it, recorded and played the heck out of them, and they are as good as new. I also think the 3007 kits should be taken into account here; the mounts on them are certainly a few miles ahead of the Visions'.
But anyway, the Saturns are definitely ahead of the Sonor and Vision kits, they are Semi-pro, Pro kits.


Fox.

Re: "I'd take Visions over Saturns any day. And even over Masters" (Music Store Salesman) (??)

keep it simple said:

Sorry Preppie, got to disagree with that, especially concerning accuracy of bearing edges & shell roundness/stability. My son has a Vision kit, & the bearing edges are a joke. Ok, he might just be the unlucky one, but still, not good. The other thing I've noticed on the Pearl kits is the really bad overlap seam on the inside of the shell. I first saw this on my son's Visions, but I noticed the same thing on a Masters set in my local drum store. Maybe there is some truth in the same shell claim. Either way, I can sort of accept that crudity on a Vision, but on something the price of a Masters kit, I don't think so.

I have nothing against Pearl in general. I think their hardware is mostly very good (although most of the nylon cymbal stand clamp inserts have fractured on my son's kit), but I'm consistently unimpressed with their sound/shell quality. The Export was a great kit for the money. I'm not so sure about the latest incarnations of that line.

BTW, completely agree about those tom mounts on the Visions. Who the hell thought that would be a good idea? I can imagine the conversation between the design & sales departments.

Sales---- "just make me something that looks like an isiolation mount but much cheaper"(hands over sketch), Design----- "ok, but if we make this, all the weight will be hanging off one section of a very weak hoop. That will distort the hoop, make tuning a nightmare, make the drum very insecure, & It'll sound like a cardboard box when you mount it". Sales------ "Yes, but they'll never try this in the store, & most of these kits are bought online, they'll never know. We'll equip them with really crap heads to disguise this. Most customers keep these heads for a while, & blame them for the crap sound. Once they get round to putting good heads on, most kits will be out of warranty. Anyhow, they'll only blame their own tuning skills. After a year or two, when they've really worked out how crap the kit is, they'll be looking to upgrade. Because they like our hardware, & they've spent the last two years telling their pals how great Pearl are, we stand a good chance of getting the sale".

Click to expand...

Okay.....I own a 12 year old Master's Custom Extra kit(MRX) that came with the ISS mounts. I have had absolutely no problems with this mount on my rack toms. Granted they aren't "monster" sizes...8x10 and 10x12 ......but they have served the purpose for that many years. No tuning problems either.
This may be due to the thicker hoops on the Masters?
I have actively gigged with these drums for the 12 years I have had them and the only complaint I have is the weight of the drums in a hard case. At the end of a night, it's hard work hauling those drums back to the truck!

The shell construction on these drums is flawless with absolutely smooth interiors as well as smooth exteriors. They sound the best with the heads that came on the drums originally, clear Ambassadors, top and bottom.

Maybe Pearl's quality control has gone down over the past 12 years?

Re: "I'd take Visions over Saturns any day. And even over Masters" (Music Store Salesman) (??)

Lol Andy, you certainly seem to have a lot of time on your hands!!

Actually, I agree with fox. Check out Sonor, even their lower end drums sound Killer.

I have a Force 2007 Birch Kit that I absolutely adore (which can be heard here)

The Hardware's great, it's easy to tune and the birch shells of my 2007's sound great with any heads. If you have a store nearby that sells them, check it out immediately!!

Also. for a 4 piece kit (22 BD, 14 SNR, 12 TT, 16 FT) with hardware (that included all of this ) it was roughly $1200 Canadian.

-Jonathan

Re: "I'd take Visions over Saturns any day. And even over Masters" (Music Store Salesman) (??)

ddrumman2004 said:

Maybe Pearl's quality control has gone down over the past 12 years?

Click to expand...

Quite possibly. I have a couple of friends who've got older Masters kits. Both don't exhibit that nasty overlap seam, & they certainly sound nice to my ear.

@Jonathan, no, my time is short. I just have a fertile cynical imagination, a ton of corporate business experience, & I'm quite fast on a keyboard for an old fart, lol!

Re: "I'd take Visions over Saturns any day. And even over Masters" (Music Store Salesman) (??)

At those prices, I wouldn't think twice about getting a Mapex Meridian kit.

The suspension mounts are better designed and more functional than anything else out there. It's nice not having the weight of the drum focused on the hoop like almost everyone else does, or having to take the whole thing apart to change a batter head.

The rest of Mapex's hardware is also quite nice, though I must admit the best cymbal stands I've ever used were Yamaha.

I wouldn't worry about the Meridian Birch having 1.6mm hoops. I tried 2.3mm hoops on my kit and the heavier hoops choked the sound. With the stock 1.6mm hoops all of the toms really sing and have a much clearer tone. The industry has built this belief that heavier hoops are always a plus and it just isn't true.

I think the Pearl Vision drums are okay, even nice, but I also cannot stand their tom mounts and the rest of their hardware isn't as well built as Mapex or Yamaha. At those prices you quoted I wouldn't come anywhere near a set. I'm not surprised that salesman is hyping them, at that markup.

Re: "I'd take Visions over Saturns any day. And even over Masters" (Music Store Salesman) (??)

Yeah.. I agree with a lot of things stated here.

Firstly, the guy is a salesman. C'mon, it's his job to sell me stuff, in this case, a Vision set. Actually he does his job very well. In the store they had 4 Vision kits and only 1 meridian birch. No wonder he needs to start moving Pearls... Damn, I feel stupid now.

Now my only question is, if you were to go with what he said and buy a vision kit and upgrade the hoops and mounts, how much would the total be in comparison to the other kits?

Click to expand...

Hi man, Optimounts are $42 each (2 needed) and Superhoops are $45 each. Putting Superhoops only on batters that would sum up $180, and on batters and resos, $360. Add the two optimounts and it's a total of $444. So yeah, it's not that convenient either.

If it were me, I would get one of the Mapex kits, but I couldnt wait for a whole year to get the Saturn or Oriens (even though they are totally BA).
The Meridians are just too good and the prices you listed are very reasonable compared to the others.
Yup, I would just choose which one I like better (birch or maple. I happen to like maple) and grab it up so you can start playen em straight away.
But thats just me.

Click to expand...

Hi Homeularis. I feel this exact same way. Saving money for a Masters or a Saturn is more than twice the price of the Mapex's. I'm a college student with a part time job and no great salary. Saving what I save every month, I would have to wait too long.

Besides, almost every review I've read about Meridians praises them. I really liked the kits and also, I'm 22 years old and no Virgil Donati as to need the highest end kit right now.

BTW, completely agree about those tom mounts on the Visions. Who the hell thought that would be a good idea? I can imagine the conversation between the design & sales departments.

Sales---- "just make me something that looks like an isiolation mount but much cheaper"(hands over sketch), Design----- "ok, but if we make this, all the weight will be hanging off one section of a very weak hoop. That will distort the hoop, make tuning a nightmare, make the drum very insecure, & It'll sound like a cardboard box when you mount it". Sales------ "Yes, but they'll never try this in the store, & most of these kits are bought online, they'll never know. We'll equip them with really crap heads to disguise this. Most customers keep these heads for a while, & blame them for the crap sound. Once they get round to putting good heads on, most kits will be out of warranty. Anyhow, they'll only blame their own tuning skills. After a year or two, when they've really worked out how crap the kit is, they'll be looking to upgrade. Because they like our hardware, & they've spent the last two years telling their pals how great Pearl are, we stand a good chance of getting the sale".

Click to expand...

LOL KIS, that's hilarious. From this it would seem that Pearl is directed by the devil, Mr. Evil, and the Enron board of directors, haha.

Dont think I ever met a salesman that wasn't cool or nice.. there job is to sell and in most cases lean you toward the product they get the biggest comission on.. maybe there co. has a big ensentive program on visions for the holidays. They can be very helpful with there info but always keep in mind there motive... let your ears be the judge keeping in mind heads..I think pearl drums come with 2 ply heads so they may sound better then the Mapex's if they come with a single ply china made head like my Sonor 3007's did...all that being said.. I really dont think you can go wrong with the masters or the saturns

Click to expand...

I think you're right in everything there, man.

Actually, I agree with fox. Check out Sonor, even their lower end drums sound Killer.

Click to expand...

Thanks Pass, but there aren't any Sonor's distributors in my country.

At those prices, I wouldn't think twice about getting a Mapex Meridian kit.

The suspension mounts are better designed and more functional than anything else out there. It's nice not having the weight of the drum focused on the hoop like almost everyone else does, or having to take the whole thing apart to change a batter head.

The rest of Mapex's hardware is also quite nice, though I must admit the best cymbal stands I've ever used were Yamaha.

I wouldn't worry about the Meridian Birch having 1.6mm hoops. I tried 2.3mm hoops on my kit and the heavier hoops choked the sound. With the stock 1.6mm hoops all of the toms really sing and have a much clearer tone. The industry has built this belief that heavier hoops are always a plus and it just isn't true.

I think the Pearl Vision drums are okay, even nice, but I also cannot stand their tom mounts and the rest of their hardware isn't as well built as Mapex or Yamaha. At those prices you quoted I wouldn't come anywhere near a set. I'm not surprised that salesman is hyping them, at that markup.

Click to expand...

Hi Winston. Well, actually this is exactly what I believe, but after all that brainwashing yesterday at the shop I got very confused. You really think that 2.3mm hoops aren't worth it? 'Cause that would be the main reason I'd get the Maple instead of the Birch. I just read your thread and saw that you had defective bearing edges! In another review I read that edges on the maple kits were smoother than on the birch kits too. Another thing to take into account.
-----

Well, I can say for sure that right now I'm 80% confident that I'm gonna get a Meridian.

Why? Well, many reasons:

1) To get a Saturn I'd have to wait for almost a year. Visions are horribly overpriced. Tama's are wrapped, Catalina's failed on the HW department for me.
2) I've been playing for years on an old Forum. Upgrading to a Meridian is going to be a huge step. I'm sure I'm gonna be happy with the difference.
3) I fell in love inmediatly with the configuration. 24" virgin kick, 13", 16" and 18" toms.
4) I love Mapex's lacquered finishes.
5) I'm 22 years old, I consider myself maybe too young to get a Pro Kit, and for sure I'm not a Pro Drummer. I'll have time for that in the future.
6) Right now I can allow myself to spend $1500 on a drumkit, but $3000 is WAY too much money for me.

Well, now I'm one of those who thinks that wood type plays quite a minor role in drumkits. I think that construction quality, head choice, sticks choice, hoops, shell width, tom mounts and style of playing have a much bigger influence in sound than wood selection.
All factors being equal, of course that wood type changes the "voice" of the kit, but really, when you add two guitars, a bass and vocals... how many can hear the difference?

However, between Maple and Birch Meridians there are more differences than only wood:

Maple Meridians come with 2.3mm Power Hoops, spring cushioned FT legs and 10-lug snare drum. Shells are all 5.8mm with BD being 7.2mm. Factory heads are Remo UT Pinstripes.

Birch Meridians come with 1.6mm hoops, regular rubber FT legs and 8-lug SD. Shells are 7.2mm all-round. Factory heads are Remo UT single-plys.

Personally, I think that the birch snare drum sounds better, but I'd like to get the 2.3mm hoops and those cushioned legs. So there's a bit of a dilemma. (I would change heads for Emperors over ambassadors ASAP and sell the factory ones, so that doesn't matter).

So now I change my question: What do you think?? Should I go for Maple or Birch? How much difference do 2.3mm hoops and cushioned FT legs?

Thanks for all the replies so far. It is a real pleasure to be in a forum with so many nice people willing to help. Thank you.

Re: "I'd take Visions over Saturns any day. And even over Masters" (Music Store Salesman) (??)

Pass.of.E.r.a. said:

Lol Andy, you certainly seem to have a lot of time on your hands!!

Actually, I agree with fox. Check out Sonor, even their lower end drums sound Killer.

I have a Force 2007 Birch Kit that I absolutely adore (which can be heard here)

The Hardware's great, it's easy to tune and the birch shells of my 2007's sound great with any heads. If you have a store nearby that sells them, check it out immediately!!

Also. for a 4 piece kit (22 BD, 14 SNR, 12 TT, 16 FT) with hardware (that included all of this ) it was roughly $1200 Canadian.

-Jonathan

Click to expand...

Checked out your sonor 2007 youtube...real nice sound and some great chops you got going there..thats not the stock snare is it?

Re: "I'd take Visions over Saturns any day. And even over Masters" (Music Store Salesman) (??)

diegobxr said:

Hi Winston. Well, actually this is exactly what I believe, but after all that brainwashing yesterday at the shop I got very confused. You really think that 2.3mm hoops aren't worth it? 'Cause that would be the main reason I'd get the Maple instead of the Birch. I just read your thread and saw that you had defective bearing edges! In another review I read that edges on the maple kits were smoother than on the birch kits too. Another thing to take into account.

Click to expand...

The edges on my kit were good overall. Not perfect, but completely in line with what I'd expect for a kit in this price range. Actually, the floor toms and the bass drum were completely smooth, it was just the 10" that was a little rough and the 12" had one spot I didn't like. But I freely admit I'm spoiled by Precision Drums' edges because they are perfect. The new edges did improve the toms, though.

I think 2.3mm hoops (or die cast, for that matter) can be a good thing, but I'm not sold on them unconditionally. My previous kit (PDP Maple) had 2.3mm hoops, and they sounded fine. Tried die cast and they completely sucked the life out of the toms. On my Meridian Birch kit the 1.6mm hoops sounded better than 2.3mm. In this case I don't consider the thinner hoops a downgrade, because the birch kits are designed for the thinner hoops, and sound better for it.

Honestly, I have mixed feelings about the spring floor tom feet too. Both of my birch floor toms have TONS of sustain with the regular feet, I'm not sure I'd want more.

Well, now I'm one of those who thinks that wood type plays quite a minor role in drumkits.

Click to expand...

I agree too, but having just changed from a maple kit to a birch kit I think birch is a little smoother in tone and I absolutely love the bass drum. It is amazing.

However, between Maple and Birch Meridians there are more differences than only wood.

Click to expand...

I don't think you'll go wrong with either the Meridian Maple or Birch. They're both great kits and even though the maple series has a few more features I was still knocked out by the overall fit and finish. I certainly don't feel like the birch kit is lacking anything. Everything is engineered very well (especially the tom suspension mounts) and visually I think Mapex outclasses everything else in that price range. Their lacquer finishes are really outstanding and the overall look of the lugs and badges is really classy and understated.

You might also get a little more use out of the stock heads than you might expect. I'm not a Remo guy at all but the clear Ambassador over Diplomat stock heads sounded really good on the toms. Clear, open tone with good sustain, and the Powerstroke 3 front and back on the bass drum sounded good too. I'm sure the Pinstripe over Diplomat on the maple toms sounds great as well.

Re: "I'd take Visions over Saturns any day. And even over Masters" (Music Store Salesman) (??)

braincramp said:

Checked out your sonor 2007 youtube...real nice sound and some great chops you got going there..thats not the stock snare is it?

Click to expand...

Thank you! No, you're right it's a Tama Warlord Masai Snare.

@diegobx, Personally, I prefer heavier shells, and I like birch over Maple so I know what my decision would be. But in your case you should probably go for the Maple kit because of all the features it comes with. Either way you'll be walking away with a great kit!

-Jonathan

Re: "I'd take Visions over Saturns any day. And even over Masters" (Music Store Salesman) (??)

From my perspective, it looks like budget and what level of investment is worth it to you.

I don't understand threads where folks compare across levels, like comparing Catalinas to Saturns. Maybe Cats to Visions. Renowns to Saturns would be more like it. I love the Saturn floor toms, they way you can tune them lower and the sustain still balances against the shell toms. But I ended up with the Renowns as I liked them on balance, and the price was still better than I could get Saturns for. Same with comparing Masters to mid level other kits like the Meridians.

FWIW, I did have an older Masters Custom maple kit some years ago and when I sold it I kept the mounts. I used them on two sucessive other kits before I got the Gretsches. Never had any tuning issues or sound problems with 2.3mm hoops. Even hanging a 12x14 "floor" tom. Switching from the Rims type mounts to the Pearls just made changing heads easier and the drum a little more stable.

I would pick the shell pack for the kick first, and then the sound of the toms. I wouldn't worry that much about the snare as that is one of the first things that will get changed out. Relatively easy to get a Pork Pie BOB for $250 or even a used Acrolite for $125 and get a different snare sound.

Re: "I'd take Visions over Saturns any day. And even over Masters" (Music Store Salesman) (??)

diegobxr said:

4- "I'd take Visions over Saturns any day" (I think this is a bit extreme).

Click to expand...

http://www.cocaine.org/justsayno.html

Re: "I'd take Visions over Saturns any day. And even over Masters" (Music Store Salesman) (??)

Well i have had a few kits in my time, exports being one of them, loved them, they were good. Now i have some Saturns, and now, they are good.

I am the sort of chap, that loves to take things apart, just to see how they work, or not.

When i got my kit, is was just shells and nuts and bolts. i checked everything, when i was putting it togther, i was looking for defects and problems, just so i could go back to the shop and have a rant. But there was no defects at all, the kit was 100%. The bearing edges are a work of art. They sound bloody great as well. I was very pleased with it.

I would recommed the Saturns, and i aint just saying it "because i have some" but because IMO the build and sound are second to none..