The Big Kits vs. Small Kits Debate

Re: sorry but i have to, BIG DRUM KITS

MikeM said:

Wow, there's just no getting another POV to you, is there? If you think that conformity of drumkits is a good thing, then I think you're missing the whole point of the drumming exercise. If you think that a particular sub-genre of one part of the jazz era was music's purest form, then you are so completely biased, I don't know how anyone could possibly take you seriously.

You seem to have conveniently ignored Brundlefly's point about "need" and FUN. Obviously, those concepts haven't yet registered with your 20 year old brain. For most of us, that's all there is is fun. You should look that up sometime. (Hint: it's not in any of your drumming texts)

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i get it, i probably understand need the best, through recording i have i strong understanding of what different genres call for, ill tell you the best metal band i have recorded had a 7 piece kit with 5 cymbals. different drummers do need different things. your taking my point of kids just starting out with huge kits into something its not, unless his point of view is that beginners need 10 piece kits then i think i got his point of view better then you do. he said it the best, they don't even need a snare hi hat and bass drum.
all they need is a pair of sticks and a pad. pretty sure i got that in my last post.

and me voicing my opinion on my favorite time, genre and why only for you to say its bias is insulting to me. i have never once said anything about big kits IN GENERAL. im talking about a specific situation. did i ever say the word EVERYONE in this hole topic? did i ever say they should sell their big kits? am i judging things that have yet to come? no, i am talking about past experience in a specific situation. so maybe you should understand my point of view before you make judgments i have not made myself.

and as far as fun, drumming is fun for me, how i am taking away the fun? the truth is when these people come in to my studio and pay 60 dollars a day they have never once said we are paying you to have fun, they are serious and say we want to make the best album we can make,

and when the kids come in with a huge kit and don't no how to voice it to make the best album they can i see it as a problem because i am there to help them a achieve their goal.

did i ever say they should not play their large kits at their houses? or at a show? no, because it does not concern me, why would i care? did i ever say anything about people i have never met who play big kits? not one single time. would i play a big kit yes, this has nothing to do with hating big kits in general so get it right before you try to talk to me like i have not been listening to this conversation.

and if you dont agree with me then take it out on someone else. because i would never insult on a lack of intelligence.

First let me say I personally have no feeling one way or the other as far as kit size...


If one knows how to play within the context of the tune ... I'm happy

Now by trade in a "band" situation I am the other half of the rhythm section i.e.: the Bass Player. My preference is for strong rhythmic playing rather than a more melodic approach.

I get to play “with” a lot of different drummers, one of the things I do, is work as house bassist at one of the local jams. At the jam we have a house kit usually 5 piece hats ride and two crashes … some of the jammers really only use the hats, snare, kick and a little ride, others use every bit of what is up there and would most likely sound great with more. However there are some that should stick to just the basics, as it’s obvious that playing even the 5 piece stretches the outer limits of their ability to stay focused …

By the way the more verses less strings debate is pretty quiet over in guitar land … but rages daily in bassville (just stray over to the talkbass forums)



The drummer that had the biggest affect on me played (insert drumroll) ONE drum ...

That's right ... at one time I dated a lady that ran a bellydance troupe, and at big shows we used a master doumbek drummer ... truly amazing what he could do!

Smaller versus larger drum kit set-ups

Please check out and comment on my latest blog with photos and links on smaller versus larger drum kit assemblies. I cited many Drummerworld artist kits in my analysis.

http://inthehalls.wordpress.com/2010/08/02/the-benefits-of-smaller-and-larger-drum-kit-set-ups/

Re: Smaller versus larger drum kit set-ups

I consider a 5 or 6 piece kit 'large'. I usually go in with 4 drums and a ride and a crash and hats. That's a small kit.

Re: Smaller versus larger drum kit set-ups

wow that was a nice article. I like this view on larger kits and how they can, in fact, be a good choice. Maybe not for actual gigs, but for expanding your creative juices and your ability to move around the kit. I bet after playing everything on such a large kit, switching to a 4 or 5 piece kit would be easy.

Re: Smaller versus larger drum kit set-ups

on another note, bobby jarzombek stated that a reason he likes to have so many cymbals is that for parts of the song that are cymbal heavy, crashing on the same cymbal too often for those fast passages looses it's attack, whereas crashing on many different ones will keep the attack lively. which is pretty logical if you ask me, plus alot of cats like to even out shells and cymbals but not everyone

I used to play kits that took me hours to set up. But as I got better, I went for smaller kits. I'm so good now that I play airdrums.

This is a bit off topic but still in the same ballpark...

I'm a beginning drummer and I currently use an electronic set because I live in an apt. I have my set going through the BFD2 software, killer by the way, and I have not found a matching set that sounded like what I'm after. The only pieces that match are the crash & ride.
The question is if drummers choose sizes, brands, and drum heads ... tuned for "their" sound what difference does it make to have the same drum manufactured pieces .. except for the stand/connection needs? ...

I guess I'm confused because as much of an influence many great drummers are... I play for my sound and flavor. Who cares if I have a Neil Peart set or a 70s Bonham special? Who cares how big or small .. I thought drumming was about feel. I know two songs that are boringly easy to play but when you do it right is an incredible groove ... Back in Black and Billie Jean. Again, I'm new so this is the basis of my question.

Thanks

P.S. Big Kits look Awesome though .. all that good stuff to bang on!!

Zeus Mutation said:

I guess I'm confused because as much of an influence many great drummers are... I play for my sound and flavor. Who cares if I have a Neil Peart set or a 70s Bonham special? Who cares how big or small .. I thought drumming was about feel. I know two songs that are boringly easy to play but when you do it right is an incredible groove ... Back in Black and Billie Jean. Again, I'm new so this is the basis of my question.

Thanks

P.S. Big Kits look Awesome though .. all that good stuff to bang on!!

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The truth is that it doesn't and shouldn't matter to anyone but you. What you mention is exactly what matters: your sound, your feel, your interests. But like all endeavors that involve a range of personalities with varying levels of maturity and perspective, there are a few folks so locked into their own point of view that they feel the need to attack anything that is different so that they can feel comfortable in their own choices or possibly to excuse their own need to conform.

Anyway... welcome to one of many dogma of drumming threads.

Zeus Mutation said:

Who cares how big or small .. I thought drumming was about feel.

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Last time I looked, drums, like the bass guitar, were part of the rhythm section. And playing any instrument should be about the music. You could play Billie Jean on a snare, kick and hat. In fact I've seen it done well by a killer drummer, David Tucker.

If it serves the song, it makes sense to have it as part of your contraption. Cowbell, wood block, effects cymbals, higher toms, lower toms, extra bass drum, etc.

My criteria is that it should serve the song, not the musician's ego.

Some guys say playing a really small kit forces you to rely on more creative sticking patterns, such as on a 4 piece kit, which obviously makes sense because you aren't going to be able to do a huge fill across 10 different toms out in front of you. I find most big and massive kits to be pretty overkill and unnecessary, sure they are flashy but why bother when you can buy a smaller kit for a way cheaper price??

I don't have much experience, but most of the times I play, I play on something like this:



Sometimes the kit has 2 crashes instead of one, depends on the songs we're gonna play.


The bigger they are, the longer they take to prepare, and when you play at bars, big kits tend to be a problem.

2 toms, crash, ride, splash (just because it's compact) is enough. To play pop and acoustic songs, this is enough:

Loseless said:

I don't have much experience, but most of the times I play, I play on something like this:

Sometimes the kit has 2 crashes instead of one, depends on the songs we're gonna play.


The bigger they are, the longer they take to prepare, and when you play at bars, big kits tend to be a problem.

2 toms, crash, ride, splash (just because it's compact) is enough. To play pop and acoustic songs, this is enough:

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I prefer a smaller kit too, when i'm gigging I hate having to lug around a huge kit. I can get by more than well with a smaller set up, it forces you to be more creative as well!
__________________

"When the going gets tough, the tough get going!"

what Kit-Conf. program do u use?
and where can I find it?

DrummerBrother said:

what Kit-Conf. program do u use?
and where can I find it?

Click to expand...

http://sabian.com/en/setupbuilder/

If you want non-sabian cymbals, under the cymbal tab click the "other cymbals" button.

cheers!

-Jonathan

The DW Kitbuilder is also a pretty good application for modeling setups.

I'm from what I concider a rural area that has lots of bands that for the most part have the same set list give or take a few songs...there is a limited amount of clubs to play in so competition is there..like it or not..our band Braincramp BRown, mAIN & CRAMPton put a big emphasis on showmanship to distingquish us from the other handful of bands.. (we're old hair band guys anyway with a little less hair and no more spandex) ... When people come see our show I want there 1st impression to be wow what a drum set these guys must rock!!!! we then go out and put on a killer show...we always have a packed dance floor and makes it a kegger type atmosphere.. it helps the other 2 guys up front are super-hi energy wound tight types that make the crowd feel there part of it all...but out here in the sticks it really seperates us from everyone else...bottom line the people are thirstier and drink more when they see us...and for me it all starts with a big drum set ...plus I hit everything on my set at least once

Or I could be justifing all this for my ego!!! either way it works!

My kit lies somewhere in between, but I like it, it's fun to play.

Here's what I used to play...

And my current setup.


Having been on both sides of the fence, I must say that while playing a big kit can be fun, small kits (as many others have said) force you to be more creative with your fills and more importantly are much easier to transport.

-Jonathan

Cool, never noticed that on the Sabian web site. My kit just keeps getting smaller. I've got a 10" Paragon splash and a 19" Paragon china just sitting around, collecting dust now. I love 'em...just don't need 'em...so I trimmed 'em off.