drum snobbery

Don't let it bother you. If someone is a snob, or doesn't like what you play, nothing you can do will ever change their mind anyway. Who cares what they say.
If you like playing metal then play it! Who the hell says you need to play all styles?
 
Good point, Sam. Who has time to learn all styles? I could play whatever I want. I do what I do, not only for the music, but also for the vibe, the surroundings, the people, the audience, etc. Mostly the feeling that it gives me when I play. It's about me and what gets my energy and creative juices flowing. I'm not being selfish. If you're comfortable in your surroundings, then that's just one more load off your mind if you know what I mean. I'm not missing anything, this is my niche in the drumming world, eh. (that's Canadian for "you think?")
 
True, I agree withe all 3 of those responses. There's no harm in learning other stuff but if you don't be selfish and play for yourself then that's probably a fast route to becoming bored or disenchanted with your insteument.
You know what? I stopped playing drums altogether for a little over a year about 6 years ago.
Why? I was engaged to the ice queen, she loved money and wanted a nice house etc, I got an office job while going to college on a night time to help get a promotion.
I lost myself completely and got so caught up in the rat race I didn't even realise how miserable I was 'til something clicked and I said 'f**k you' picked up sticks again, put my piercing back in, dressed like I wanted to again and went straight back to being discriminated against because of my image and taste in music.

And you know what? I couldn't be happier about it! it scares me to think, what if I didn't snap? What ig I GOT that promotion? Where would I be now and more importantly how would I feel?
I've said so much of what I want to say through my music that I can't imagine the sort of stuff I'd have bottled up inside me by now.

So I couldn't agree more, please yourself because at the end of the day YOU are no.1 and you're all that matters. Regret is the worst of all feelings.
 
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How dous this "discriminated against" manifest itself Chunk?

I know Goths, Punks, Hippies (yes, still, being an ex myself) and they embrace and love the way they dress and the music they like and I don't believe any of them feel discriminated against.

I believe a part of the way they are likes to be slightly outside the norm, whatever that may be. If they get a "Look" from a suit it is mission accomplished, but discrimination will not come into it. I don't believe any of them have ever been refused entry to a shop or spat at in the street.

Perhaps you are being a little too sensitive. Dress the way you want, and listen to and play what you want. Its a free country and I would guess 99.9% of people wouldnt care if you wore a Tutu and spent your days humming the 1812 overture.
 
I have been playing on and off since I was 12 ( I am 30 now). I started playing Jazz, Fusion and Gospel. Then I played metal for a few years. Since then I have played in ska and punk bands ever since. I had education in music since I was 8 years old to include brass and piano. I even still take drum lessons mainly in Jazz.

Does it make me a less than qualified drummer because I play punk? I still play gigs that range from classic rock to country from time to time. When I first started playing punk (to include the few Warped tour dates I did) I really did not enjoy it much at all. Years passed and for me it was more about having fun.

I play music because its fun and I really don't care what other people think. Most of the great drummers I have heard say its important to listen to and try to play genres you normally would not.
 
Any wife, husband or friend of a musician knows only too well how EVERYTHING comes last to the music.
That goes for creative people in general.

Not sure what was meant by this statement. I may be interpreting it incorrectly so please forgive me if so, but I can assure you I’d burn every trace of musical element from my life before it coming before my wife and child.


You know, this exact sentiment has come up more than once on this forum, but you may be the first one I've seen to use it in a metal context. Usually it's the jazz crowd who argue that there exists an "objectively good" and if you don't like it, then that means you aren't musically developed enough to appreciate it.

I find this to be true as well, and I consider myself mainly a student of jazz playing. I learned quickly to detach from many of these players and as a result the number of gigs I get is reduced. I don’t really care.

Heck within Jazz itself, the hardcore people will look down on artists for not being “something”. For example some consider Louis Armstrong a mock to the genre when in fact; he changed the way music would be played for many generations to come.


To some good music is something they can dance to, or sing along with. They don't care about 19/8 music or polyrhythms, but just having fun. They don't want to have to analyze it, and then have a light go off and say, Oh Yeah, that is good music. All music is good music if you like it and it's not if you don't. It's that simple.

This all the way!!!!!

In my opinion ultimately each style of music will be received by people who can relate to it. If someone can’t relate to it (musically/vocally/rhythmically) it serves a little benefit to their enjoyment. Enjoyment is why people generally come to music in the first place.

For any musician to say that someone needs to get to a level any deeper than the enjoyment aspect is full of self indulgent bull.
 
Is snobbery the right word here? Maybe some people just don't like the music you like; just like you don't like the music other people like.
 
Is snobbery the right word here? Maybe some people just don't like the music you like; just like you don't like the music other people like.

Agree (I also think Shadow's on to something ...)

But it's not just taste. Sophistication matters. Not only to "snobs" but to everyone.

Hands up all those whose favourite band is The Wiggles? Why not? Because you've been there, done that. You've moved on.

I see no reason why someone who needs a level of sophistication in their music should try to get into stuff that's almost the equivalent of The Wiggles to them ... just for the sake of being more "open minded".

Fact is some people are especially musically intelligent (not necessarily the same as IQ, sometimes dramatically :) and have a deep musical education. Chances are they're going to get into a lot of stuff that will bore us regular musos as much as some of our stuff will bore them.

LZ, as you said, we like what we like.

The other factor is how much a musician is is affected by basic visceral appeal. Lots of jazz trained players simply prefer to rock out.
 
I view music the same way I view art, except that I'm a much better musician than artist. When I see a painting or a sculpture it is the overall piece that captures me, then after being entranced I look deeper into the work to see how it was done. One of my favorite paintings in Starry Night (cliche i know but I like it). In fact I'm staring at the poster of it right now, but when I saw the real painting at MOMA you can see the detail of the brushstrokes instead of the image of the strokes.

Music is the same to me, my favorite pieces caught my attention and then I delved into the depths of technique and composition than made something that got my attention. However something that doesn't touch my soul but is still well made I can study it, but never as deeply because I don't care about its results. If someone made a sculpture of millions of twigs all perfectly connecting at exact angles, but it looked like a birds nest I would not care to see how they went through the effort to make it. Further if someone is trying to make a complicated piece they need the mastery of their craft to be able to do the techniques while focusing on the overall piece. Most of us are only good enough to copy the poster not the strokes.

I dislike metal the same way I dislike lots of music, it sounds ok but the guys behind it just aren't good enough to pull off what they are trying to do. Especially with the advanced patterns that many metalers play these days, my ear is good enough to hear any timing mistake and I'd rather hear something played correctly than something a little wilder with slight mistakes.

Now if someone learns to swing a blast beat we can have the ultimate snob music.

PS I like/Hate all genres, they all have stuff I like and stuff I hate, just some more than others.
 
Polly.....But it's not just taste. Sophistication matters.

Do you not think our tastes change as we become more sophisticated?

I got into photography a few years ago. A little more seriously than just capturing the family events. It seems to me that the more I have the camera in my hand(experience and learning) the more I see. I see things I may not have seen before. I am more sophisticated as a photographer, so I see things differently.
 
Polly.....But it's not just taste. Sophistication matters.

I agree, Grunt. Objective quality exists. You can tell by musician acceptance - how many good musicians in your field/s want to play with you.

But ... how much we care about objective quality is a matter of taste. Sometimes the quality is there but the music doesn't touch us. Sometimes rough and raw music hits the spot.

Expressiveness is the other side of the coin. Joe Cocker doesn't objectively sing as well as, say, the guys from The Boys Next Door but I'd pick Joe's gutbucket soulfulness.over THBND's bland slickness any day.

Admittedly, I think expressiveness is less important with drums than other instruments. Since we form the foundation for the music we can't afford too many expressive glitches or everything gets muddy. Expressiveness is still important with drums, maybe about as important as tightness is for singers.
 
I'm a simple player and I think Vinnie often overplays. And that's not putting him down - he's mastered the instrument in a way few have achieved. It's just taste.

Criticisms are not necessarily put downs. I see no problem with not enjoying the style / approach of drummers whose talent you admire.

I totally agree with your last staement.
 
I dislike metal the same way I dislike lots of music, it sounds ok but the guys behind it just aren't good enough to pull off what they are trying to do. Especially with the advanced patterns that many metalers play these days, my ear is good enough to hear any timing mistake and I'd rather hear something played correctly than something a little wilder with slight mistakes.

You should be careful. Between the sweeping dismissal of an entire genre of drummers and patting yourself on the back, you might pull an arm muscle.
 
I dislike metal the same way I dislike lots of music, it sounds ok but the guys behind it just aren't good enough to pull off what they are trying to do. Especially with the advanced patterns that many metalers play these days, my ear is good enough to hear any timing mistake and I'd rather hear something played correctly than something a little wilder with slight mistakes.

yr obviously not listening to any good metal

check out the drumming on any Meshuggah , Mastodon, Nile, East of the Wall, Dilliger Escape Plan, Every Time I Die, Sepultura record and tell me you dont hear good playing

if you can say you dont hear very nice drumming we may have to check your pulse

...and Im not the huge metal lover I once was but what about Vinnie Colaiuta playing with Megadeth or Stanton Moore playing with Corrosion of Conformity....you going to tell me there is no good drumming there?
 
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How dous this "discriminated against" manifest itself Chunk?

I know Goths, Punks, Hippies (yes, still, being an ex myself) and they embrace and love the way they dress and the music they like and I don't believe any of them feel discriminated against.

I believe a part of the way they are likes to be slightly outside the norm, whatever that may be. If they get a "Look" from a suit it is mission accomplished, but discrimination will not come into it. I don't believe any of them have ever been refused entry to a shop or spat at in the street.

Perhaps you are being a little too sensitive. Dress the way you want, and listen to and play what you want. Its a free country and I would guess 99.9% of people wouldnt care if you wore a Tutu and spent your days humming the 1812 overture.

You're so out of touch it's unreal! Not everyone dresses like that just to annoy other people, some people just are who they are and don't do things for a reaction
This discrimination 'manifests' through things like people giving you dirty looks, being spat on, stones thrown at, heing chased by gangs of yobs, not getting a job because of tattoos or piercings, people assuming you're a druggie.
Fair enough, I don't get the bullying anymore because I'm a man now and fairly large.

Let me put this in perspective, in my town, 12 years ago, when I was 15, there was 1 black man, everyone knew his name, there was also 1 chinese kid in our school and 3 metallers. me and two of my mates.
We used to get shit constantly, everyday just for liking metal. People kicking us ofd our skateboards, even the adults used to get in on it, they thought it was a big joke. ever ran away from a group of 15 or so people? it looks more like 30 people, you're running with your skateboard in your hand, slowing you down, trying to pick the quickest route away, you're getting out of breathe, you can hear their footsteps getting louder behind you. You're weighing up whether to turn around and smash one of them in the face with your board, but you know you can't take them all...
Or being chased down backstreets on foot while they are in a car trying to run you over. Being kicked all over by 2 MEN when your 15 just 'cos it's 'funny to hit a goth'.

So don't tell me I'm being sensitive, you have no clue and the fact you take the subject so lightly tells me you've always been on the other side of the fence looking over thinking 'it's not that bad'. sure it isn't, just like 9/11 wasn't THAT bad, for me.... Ask somone who went through it though and it's a different story.

Sensitive? there's nothing left. Apart from zero tolerance to anything remotely reminding me of it
 
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the fact you take the subject so lightly tells me you've always been on the other side of the fence looking over thinking 'it's not that bad'. sure it isn't, just like 9/11 wasn't THAT bad, for me
That's a classic :D

Dude, you're taking yourself way too seriously. You chose metal as an identity because of who you are. I suspect you'd have got sh*t from people whichever way you expressed yourself as a teen
 
That's a classic :D

Dude, you're taking yourself way too seriously. You chose metal as an identity because of who you are. I suspect you'd have got sh*t from people whichever way you expressed yourself as a teen

How am I taking myself too seriously? I had loads of feiends up until I got metal then overnight it changed.
And this isn't just about metal, it's about discrimination and bullying in general. things were so bad when i was a kid because of people like you with this 'too serious' attitude. Sure, it's light hearted when you're not the one getting it everyday.
So whether you're being bullied or discriminated against because you're a metaller, your gay, black, white, you support the wrong team we ALL have to take it seriously 'cos one day it just might turn up and bite you or someone you know.

My area is different now, it seems being into metal is more accepted and theres certainly alot more people into it now. the school I used to go to has went from being the worst rated school to the best each year. It's different now, thank God but, like I said we all have to take it seriously no matter what the bullying and discrimination is for and you should be ashamed for putting me down for it.
wise up.

Oh and when you quote someone, quote the whole part and not just half of it so you can make a point. I stand by what I said. nothing is THAT bad for anyone who isn't affected by it. But that doesn't mean it's any less serious for the ones who were.
 
Metal has clearly traumatized you. I think you need to break up with her.
 
Metal has clearly traumatized you. I think you need to break up with her.

Lol, I likes that one!

I just don't like anyone, metal or no, being bullied.
I really don't sit at home chewing over the world, I honestly don't care enough. I'm a relaxed chilled out guy, I'm just opinionated and unapolagetic.

This thread has really gone off topic!
 
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