Trying ProMark 747 M after using Vic Firth's 55A, 5Bs

I started learning the drums almost 3 months ago. I have been using Vic Firth's 55A when playing, and for work outs on the practice pads usually I use the 5Bs.

I stumbled upon the pro mark 747 M japanese oak Neil Peart edition and just had to buy that. They are supposedly similar to 55As, but a little longer.

I can't seem to find the balance point on these for some reason. On the Vic Firth sticks, I can very easily place the fulcrum close or ON that little flag, and feel the stick do all the work, rebound efortlessly, and absorb the impacts.

On the pro mark, I can't seem to get the same "sweet" feel. I can feel the impacts been transfered to my hands. I just can't get it to feel as good as the Vic's.

Those of you who use these sticks (747 M), roughly, where is the balance point in relation to those stripes in the middle of the stick?

The oak sticks are heavier and denser than hickory, but nice in their own right. I've always found Vic Firth and Vater to have the nicest woods and cleanest cuts. It seems to me that Pro-mark uses duller tools to make their sticks. They make nice products, but I believe quality control is an issue.

haroldo_psf said:

I started learning the drums almost 3 months ago. I have been using Vic Firth's 55A when playing, and for work outs on the practice pads usually I use the 5Bs.

I stumbled upon the pro mark 747 M japanese oak Neil Peart edition and just had to buy that. They are supposedly similar to 55As, but a little longer.

I can't seem to find the balance point on these for some reason. On the Vic Firth sticks, I can very easily place the fulcrum close or ON that little flag, and feel the stick do all the work, rebound efortlessly, and absorb the impacts.

On the pro mark, I can't seem to get the same "sweet" feel. I can feel the impacts been transfered to my hands. I just can't get it to feel as good as the Vic's.

Those of you who use these sticks (747 M), roughly, where is the balance point in relation to those stripes in the middle of the stick?

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Typically on a Pro-Mark it's towards the rear of the type that identifies the material (in your case Shira Kashi Oak?)

Because oak is denser and slightly heavier than hickory, and the stick is both longer and has a shorter taper than a 55A, it's probably a very different feel than the sticks you're used to. It may require very fine adjustments - a millimeter forward or back, so to speak - until you find the sweet spot. I know I've found mine when I can dribble the stick on the head with my other hand.

I've always found promark sticks are heavier towards the tip of the stick, and so the fulcrum is further up. I've always liked vic firths the best because you can hold them quite far back and still perform good strokes.

hank magic said:

The oak sticks are heavier and denser than hickory, but nice in their own right. .....

It seems to me that Pro-mark uses duller tools to make their sticks. They make nice products, but I believe quality control is an issue.

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I agree, the denser Oak is going to change the balance.

And I agree ProMark has had some quality control issues over the years.

When D'Addario bought Evans, they really improved Evan's quality. Now that D'Addario has bought ProMark, I would suspect we will see a similar level of improvement in the next year or so.

I use 747 Oaks. I use the nylon tipped version instead of the NP model, but I happen to have one pair of the signature model here. The balance point on mine is one thumb nail length behind the signature.

I agree that ProMark doesn't have the greatest quality control and I can feel that in other sticks that I've tried. However, I haven't been able to find a suitable replacement for the 747 in another line. I want something with the same length, girth and weight and that doesn't seem to exist. Spent hours at last year's NAMM trying on sticks found nothing I liked. So, I buy by the case and end up tossing out about 5% of what I buy.

Brundlefly said:

I use 747 Oaks. I use the nylon tipped version instead of the NP model, but I happen to have one pair of the signature model here. The balance point on mine is one thumb nail length behind the signature.

I agree that ProMark doesn't have the greatest quality control and I can feel that in other sticks that I've tried. However, I haven't been able to find a suitable replacement for the 747 in another line. I want something with the same length, girth and weight and that doesn't seem to exist. Spent hours at last year's NAMM trying on sticks found nothing I liked. So, I buy by the case and end up tossing out about 5% of what I buy.

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I have 3 pairs: the neil peart signature one, then the nylon tips of the same as neil peart (747 M) ,and the "rock" model 747 L, also nylon.

can you guys explain to me what I should look for on my 3 pais of ProMark I just bought as far as "quality"? What do you see when you toss 5% of what you buy?

I haven't had any QC issues with Pro-Mark, but that is beside the point I guess.

The 747 has a different taper so may never give you the same feel as the the other sticks you've tried. Still a good stick, and I used them for many years.

I think the difference in the impact feel is in the type of wood. I noticed a big reduction in the impact sensation and the resulting fatigue when I switched to hickory. If you wanted to test that theory, the 747 is available in hickory.

Or maybe you just prefer the feel of the other sticks? Different tapers give VERY different rebound characteristics, even after you've found the fulcrum. You'll have to decide which you prefer!

I used to play Pro Mark oak sticks (including 747s), but I finally realized that I didn't care for how they felt because of their higher density which, in addition to moving the fulcrum further up the stick, makes you have to grip the stick tighter simply because they're heavier for a given size. If I want the weight of an oak stick, I'd rather use a larger hickory stick to get it, which also helps to distribute any friction over more area on the hands.

I have tried Pro Mark oak sticks a few times, and I just do not care for them. I guess I am a hickory drumstick guy. Isn't a Vic Firth 55A in between a 5A and a 5B? If so, try the Pro Mark 808. Peace and goodwill.

haroldo_psf said:

I have 3 pairs: the neil peart signature one, then the nylon tips of the same as neil peart (747 M) ,and the "rock" model 747 L, also nylon.

can you guys explain to me what I should look for on my 3 pais of ProMark I just bought as far as "quality"? What do you see when you toss 5% of what you buy?

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I find these things:

1) Sticks that are unacceptably out of round. This happens less often, but it does happen.
2) Sticks that are distinctly heavier/lighter than others. This happens more often.
3) Sticks that have gross structural weaknesses. I don't break sticks very often. They tend to ware down rather than break. Every once in a while, I get one that starts to bend or split prematurely. This happens only rarely and is probably with in tolerance for any stick manufacturer.

Mine are the rock nylon models. I prefer the definition from the nylon tips. I keep the one set of wood tips for times when I might not want that. One of the reasons I've stuck with these sticks is that I like the density of the oak.

I wouldn't mind if it was a touch lighter, but I wouldn't trade size for weight with my small hands. Anything fatter than a 747 feels clumsy to me. And I wouldn't want more friction distribution. I would want less. Although, honestly, friction is a non-issue for me. Neither is impact or fatigue. Most of the time, the stick just barely in my hand during the impact.

i like oak cause of the hardness. tho i really like the balance of a pair of vic firth 'rock n' that i have... but not for live rock performance-i prefer oak-for myself, it's much harder to break, doesn't wear down as quick(i'm hittin the rim all the time). but if i bought them by the box, i guess the attrition rate might even be higher than 5%, cause there's so much variance in weight from stick to stick.

but as far as the first post question, I create the balance point according to what height my stick is at in relation to the playing surface. the sticks are just free-floating and i'm catching a hold of them, getting that whip with no fatigue, or impact, like b.fly says...

yes, i can discover the actual physical balancing point on a stick, but at the same time, that exact spot becomes irrelevant anyway because the 'practical' balancing point is determined by the relationship of where the hands are to whatever you're striking. the pro marks will force you to work on this... but i favor it. i also favor the longer sticks. i've seen g.harrison and others holding the sticks way back to the butt, something that i do cause i like the whack on it-but where's the fulcrum in that? which is why i found that it is created much more significantly by the player's method than by the actual physical balance point of the stick.

these points are just personal to me. i'm not suggesting that it's the right way or the best. but yes, the balance point is one of the most crucial points...

i wonder was the hickory vs oak on the eternal debate thread-better check that out....