Genetically modified food

Larry

"Uncle Larry"
Scares the crap outta me. The FDA allows multinationals like Monsanto, who are one of the companies that are genetically modifying the food supply, to police themselves! Their stance is, "Oh yea, if you want to experiment with the food supply, on unsuspecting people, hey, we can't see any possible harm in that".

That is insanity. There's not even any labeling requirements. They can give us whatever they want.

The only way I know around it is to hunt the game behind my house and eat the wild vegetation, not really too feasible. You can't grow your own, the seeds you buy are modified. So many things we already consume are already modified, wheat being a prime example. Notice the rise in gluten free menu's lately? That's because the GM wheat is affecting more people with a propensity towards gluten intolerance. My own wife dropped gluten from her diet and she is looking and acting way healthier. I understand Europe is pulling GMO of their shelves. I dearly hope market forces prevail and stops the insanity. I don't know any way around this, as the food supply is managed by only a few companies.

I was curious as to what the international community thinks about this frightening subject. It negatively affects the health of each and every one of us in a major way.
 
There are valid views both for & against GM food. It's worth bearing in mind that we've (collectively) been modifying all our food through selection for decades, so maybe GM is just a smarter shortcut extension of that. On the other hand, it's messing with stuff on a different level, & it's the unknown element that freaks most (including me) out.

I think the bigger concern is the level of mission creep, monopoly, & ludicrous belief in self regulation. The initial sales pitch on GM was to produce durable crops that could flourish in poor conditions, therefore feeding those typically most needy & exposed to frequent crop failures. That's cool :) Another "benefit" was the reduction of pesticides needed to ensure a good yield. Another cool goal.

Regrettably, although both of these aims are being satisfied to a minor degree, it's actually a massive commercial opportunity. These big companies are controlling the seed supply, so have most food production locked down.

Anyhow, I'm happy I live in a place where GM stuff is forbidden. Not only that, but a substantial portion of my area's food output is fully organic, & relating to meat, free range too. Believe it or not, because we source our food locally, it's actually cheaper than the big store stuff, & a big improvement in quality too.

Now I realise everyone can't live in the middle of nowhere, otherwise nowhere would become somewhere, but there are at least local production lessons to be learnt. I think GM stuff is better placed only where natural species cannot thrive, but I can't imagine that getting past the cash driven lobby system that applies in many countries somehow.
 
As fellow Pennsylvania Larrys we're very much kindred spirits. Friggen GMO food and crops are forbidden in many countries. There was almost a war over GMOs in Italy a few years back I recall. No other country's government falls for the line of bullsh*t that Monsanto shovels except the good ol US of A. Politicians are literally bought and sold by Monsantos of the world. They even fight labeling!! Why? If GMOs are so safe like they say? Buying organic also help small family farmers in many cases, so that's where my money goes.

I read that 90% of US grown corn is genetically modified. And that the large majority of that GMO corn goes to feed livestock for meat consumption (why I'm also vegetarian for 20 years going now...). Hmmm...and Monsanto's first sang the praises of GMO seed because they wanted to be like Bob Geldof and "feed the world". Ha. Funny.
 
Yea, they sell it as, Oh it will help feed the poor. Bull s**t. The supermarkets of the US aren't where the poor are. This is evil stuff. I'm hearing bad bad stories about the consumption of GM food. I also read stories about how they are modifying plants to produce their own natural insecticide. Bugs that eat these plants die. And we're supposed to eat this stuff. Natural weeds won't grow around these plants. I heard stories of them using animal genes in plants. That's dangerously insane. I heard a story where a farmer was growing a non GM crop that was near where Monsanto was growing a GM crop. Well the GM crop pollenated the non GM crop, Monsanto snuck into this guys field, took a sample of his crop, tested it, and sued him for patent infringement or some other damn thing. Unbelievable. He couldn't help that. The barn door is open. You can't unring that bell. I really think this is going to have dire consequences in the future. I envy you even more now Andy. Going vegetarian is no solution, if those crops are GM too.
 
Scares the crap outta me. The FDA allows multinationals like Monsanto, who are one of the companies that are genetically modifying the food supply, to police themselves! Their stance is, "Oh yea, if you want to experiment with the food supply, on unsuspecting people, hey, we can't see any possible harm in that".

That is insanity. There's not even any labeling requirements. They can give us whatever they want.

The only way I know around it is to hunt the game behind my house and eat the wild vegetation, not really too feasible. You can't grow your own, the seeds you buy are modified. So many things we already consume are already modified, wheat being a prime example. Notice the rise in gluten free menu's lately? That's because the GM wheat is affecting more people with a propensity towards gluten intolerance. My own wife dropped gluten from her diet and she is looking and acting way healthier. I understand Europe is pulling GMO of their shelves. I dearly hope market forces prevail and stops the insanity. I don't know any way around this, as the food supply is managed by only a few companies.

I was curious as to what the international community thinks about this frightening subject. It negatively affects the health of each and every one of us in a major way.

Pffft. There is no (reliable) evidence anywhere of any kind that GMOs are in any way harmful. It's all just Internet rumor. Is that redundant?

What's next - vaccines cause retardation? Smoke detectors are government spying devices?

What we know, we don't believe and what we don't know, we believe.
 
I'm buying more organic now that I can afford it. My guess is that it's higher quality food produced more ethically than GM, but in truth I don't know. You have all these claims and counter claims. Chances are that all of the claims for and against have a kernel of truth without telling the whole story, and often overstated. Pros and cons. Black, white and shades of grey. I suspect I have some food allergies and it may be gluten and sugar ... it seems I clog up after eating processed foods, but I'll need to go on an elimination diet to find out what's going on.

Ultimately almost nobody knows much about this stuff, and the voices of those who do are lost amongst all the hot air. People don't like to say they don't know something so they plump for a side that sits most comfortably with their political ideals, and then they have fierce arguments with other people who don't have a clue either. I'm not a scientist so I don't have the ability to parse all the info with any confidence. In that situation, I fall back on my old hippie ideals - peace & lurve, peace & lurve ...

So it's organic for me all the way, baybee! Some of it tastes better, some tastes the same. People say organic is overpriced BS but my guess is they know as much about organic growing as they do about GM, ie. enough to form an opinion, but not enough to form a valid opinion.

I am convinced that 99.99% of the participants in political debates know diddly about the subject matter. So I'm increasingly leaning towards the George Carlin approach - grab the popcorn and watch the show, which is preferable to despairing at our hubris, dishonesty and blinkered views. (I'd get GM popcorn, the organic stuff doesn't hit the spot - popcorn needs the salt and chemicals and stuff :)

Not dumping on people here, BTW. Just a general observation from reading news blogs.

// end blah
 
I think it's wise to raise awareness. This is not something that can be easily avoided. The fact that there are no labeling requirements, and is a self policed industry, that raises the biggest red flag imaginable, at least in my mind. Eating organic...what if the seeds are from genetically modified stock, but it is raised organically? I don't consider that any safer.

Sticking our heads in the sand, yea, that's what we should do. Everyone knows that the people in control of this issue care about us more than profit, so we shouldn't be in any peril at all.

DMC, eat up bro, get your fill.

Lemmings.
 
Everyone knows that the people in control of this issue care about us more than profit, so we shouldn't be in any peril at all.

So ... if you can't trust either GM or organic then all you can do is grow your own, unless you're in an area with car and plane fumes, in which case you'll get your daily dose of toxins another way.

Thing is, people are living longer and, let's face it, that's not good news for the human race (although pretty good for individuals if they don't finish with that slow, ghastly decline). Our activities would be more sustainable if a few billion people keeled over from dodgy corn. Bring it on ;-)

Good luck with the awareness, Larry. When it comes to bringing our corporate masters to heel you might as well spit on the towering inferno. When it comes to food I think you can do worse than making sure you listen to our body. Seems to me that the biggest food-based danger western people face is too much of it, and too much fatty and sugary pretend-food - the culinary equivalent of Rebecca Black.
 
So you're for GM food I take it? You're either for, against, or indifferent. Doesn't it piss you off? It pisses me off on many different levels. The fact that we don't have a whole lot of choice in the matter is really troubling to me.
 
I guess "indifferent" is closest, Larry. As I said, I don't know enough to form an opinion but, in principle, I agree with any stance against the level of control multinationals have over governments.

Thing is, we have no real ethical codes in this society so it's survival of the fittest. Religion failed to bring us ethics because it got sidetracked on reproduction and sexual politics.

The rich have the power to get more for themselves and, without ethical constraints, they take the logical course. It's good business, right? Remember how the triple bottom line was all the rage - corporate responsibility to the community? The competitive pressure of globalisation put paid to that.

It's all too big to influence. For decades polls have shown that a vast majority of Australians are fiercely against rapid population growth without adding the infrastructure to handle it, which of course diminishes our lifestyles. Yet each year the numbers increase, the traffic jams get worse, the queues longer, property prices the highest in the world ... yet high immigration numbers have bipartisan support and increased massively under both major parties. It makes the GDP look good and companies love it because it keeps wages down and increases demand, and developers love it because it pushes prices up.

So, in a country of 22 mill the views of, say, 15 mill make no difference. We had a demonstration with a quarter of a million people against the Iraq Things have gone beyond the point where people can make a difference - unless the media wants it to happen and starts campaigns, of course. Little people can only influence little things.
 
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I'm buying more organic now that I can afford it. My guess is that it's higher quality food produced more ethically than GM, but in truth I don't know. You have all these claims and counter claims. Chances are that all of the claims for and against have a kernel of truth without telling the whole story, and often overstated. Pros and cons. Black, white and shades of grey. I suspect I have some food allergies and it may be gluten and sugar ... it seems I clog up after eating processed foods, but I'll need to go on an elimination diet to find out what's going on.

Ultimately almost nobody knows much about this stuff, and the voices of those who do are lost amongst all the hot air. People don't like to say they don't know something so they plump for a side that sits most comfortably with their political ideals, and then they have fierce arguments with other people who don't have a clue either. I'm not a scientist so I don't have the ability to parse all the info with any confidence. In that situation, I fall back on my old hippie ideals - peace & lurve, peace & lurve ...

So it's organic for me all the way, baybee! Some of it tastes better, some tastes the same. People say organic is overpriced BS but my guess is they know as much about organic growing as they do about GM, ie. enough to form an opinion, but not enough to form a valid opinion.

I am convinced that 99.99% of the participants in political debates know diddly about the subject matter. So I'm increasingly leaning towards the George Carlin approach - grab the popcorn and watch the show, which is preferable to despairing at our hubris, dishonesty and blinkered views. (I'd get GM popcorn, the organic stuff doesn't hit the spot - popcorn needs the salt and chemicals and stuff :)

Not dumping on people here, BTW. Just a general observation from reading news blogs.

// end blah

You hit on a lot of points I agree with here on subjects like this (and pretty much everything political, too).

Bottom line for me on this subject (and many others): I don't know.

That's the truth. There is so much bullshit to sort through, so many agendas, influence from special interest groups and reactionary responses ranging from panic all the way to apathy. It's really hard to separate the truth from the hysteria and partisan politics.

I wouldn't say I'm apathetic about it. I just don't have the time to work it all out. Between working a full-time job, family, paying the bills and trying to smooth out my flam drags, I'm never going to get to the objective "truth" about most issues.

I used to be pretty obsessive about nutrition and fitness. I haven't been, of late, mostly because of the demands of the job. Now that my work hours are a bit more sane than they've been over the past few years, I intend to get back on the straight and narrow.

When it comes to determining what's healthy, I go with my gut (no pun intended) and try to make healthy choices based on the cursory information I have. I've started paying more attention where I buy my food from. I grow vegetables in my own organic garden. I buy from local farmers who I know well enough to trust. That said, I do everything in moderation. I like the occasional coney island (sorry, Grea).

I don't inherently trust businesses to police themselves. That would be naive. But that goes for all kinds of businesses, not just the ones that produce food. Trying to keep track of all of it takes more time than I have.
 
That said, I do everything in moderation ...

I don't inherently trust businesses to police themselves. That would be naive. But that goes for all kinds of businesses, not just the ones that produce food. Trying to keep track of all of it takes more time than I have.

Agree about moderation. Use and abuse. Alcohol, prescription drugs and over the counter pharmaceuticals, fatty food, sugar, red meat ... all these things are proven to kill you (or at least cause significant harm) if you overdo it, but are fine and dandy if used to best advantage.

I didn't include nicotine in that list because it's so addictive only a very small minority of smokers are capable of using rather than abusing (due to the level of the CYP2A6 enzyme produced by a gene that most people have - and then you get those clowns who make out they're the bees' knees because they quit cold turkey - "It was easy!", but that's another story :)

I like the idea of this: http://www.webmd.com/food-recipes/news/20090323/7-rules-for-eating

Whenever you see a major industry that's self regulated you know they're too powerful for the government to touch. Naturally they will put themselves first, while claiming all their measures are win-win.
 
I do believe there is evidence to support the claim that GMO's aren't as healthy. I buy organic, local, fair-trade, etc. almost always. I am mostly gluten, corn, and dairy free due to allergies.
Though I don't use it too much, I know http://www.naturalnews.com/ is a great site with plenty of input on the issue.
 
I knew it. We're all going to die. Game over, man.
 
Yay, collective paranoia about something 99.9% of people don't understand.

GM doesn't bother me at all as a concept, just like it doesn't bother me that we've ben genetically modifying food since the dawn of farming (through selective breeding, crossbreeding, etc). We're doing it directly on a genetic level now, but it's all still about messing with genes to produce a desired outcome.

If someone has actual evidence (peer reviewed research) that proves that some GM foods are dangerous, by all means present it, and I'll stay away from those foods in the future. However, I'm not buying into internet rumours about a huge and completely undefined range of commonly consumed products.


Notice the rise in gluten free menu's lately? That's because the GM wheat is affecting more people with a propensity towards gluten intolerance.
What is your source here?

I'm not trying to come off as knowing better than anyone else here. I'm not a geneticist or scientist. I'm not making the claim that all GM foods are automatically great; I'm just saying that I trust evidence and science over rumours and paranoia. Every discussion I've seen about these things has always been a bunch of claims without a single source (by which I mean actual scientific sources, not articles on random websites).

There might very well be GM foods out there which are harmful (just like there are loads of natural foods out there that are harmful), but even that doesn't mean that all GM food is bad. Just like anything else, there are thousands and thousands of varieties, made through just as many different methods. There is just absolutely zero chance that they will all be harmful.

OK, this turned into a long post, so I'll just leave it with this: Definitely do your research and definitely cut out anything that you feel suspicious about or that tests have shown to be harmful. Just don't blindly buy into paranoia or conspiracy theories, and please don't help spread them. Make informed opinions, and once you have actual sources to cite you can start spreading those news and have them carry much more weight.

If you want to scare people away from certain foods, how about warning them about the well-documented dangers of things like transfats, corn syrup and processed sugar? How about alcohol? How about the simple fact that almost everyone in the western worlds eats way too much unhealthy food in general? A fatty burger with a bowl of fries and large milkshake can be 100% organic and still clog up your arteries.

Later!
 
Definitely do your research and definitely cut out anything that you feel suspicious about or that tests have shown to be harmful.
I'm with you on your general thrust here. Indeed, some of my earlier post echos yours, but I will offer one indisputable truth about GM crops, & that's the danger that cross pollination on a large enough scale will all but eradicate non GM crops, therefore diminishing the potential for backtracking if things don't work out well. The USA has already passed this tipping point in some crop categories.

Of course, all that is music to the big producer's ears (excuse the corn pun), as it tightens their control of the seed source. A farmer can't produce his own seeds from crops already grown from licensed GM seed, & there lies the issue for me - control of a staple element necessary for life itself. Would you allow water to be licensed? I know that's an extreme analogy, but we're getting into the same realm.
 
I'm with you on your general thrust here. Indeed, some of my earlier post echos yours, but I will offer one indisputable truth about GM crops, & that's the danger that cross pollination on a large enough scale will all but eradicate non GM crops, therefore diminishing the potential for backtracking if things don't work out well. The USA has already passed this tipping point in some crop categories.

Of course, all that is music to the big producer's ears (excuse the corn pun), as it tightens their control of the seed source. A farmer can't produce his own seeds from crops already grown from licensed GM seed, & there lies the issue for me - control of a staple element necessary for life itself. Would you allow water to be licensed? I know that's an extreme analogy, but we're getting into the same realm.

Yeah, I will fully admit that I was purely speaking purely in terms of GM crops being harmful or not, and the lack of presented evidence. I was not taking into account the sort of "real world" issues that you're mentioning. As with most things, this becomes an extremely complicated issue once it moves into real world scenarios, so I didn't even want to get into that side of things (since I have nowhere near enough knowledge about it to discuss it).
 
Yeah, I will fully admit that I was purely speaking purely in terms of GM crops being harmful or not, and the lack of presented evidence. I was not taking into account the sort of "real world" issues that you're mentioning. As with most things, this becomes an extremely complicated issue once it moves into real world scenarios, so I didn't even want to get into that side of things (since I have nowhere near enough knowledge about it to discuss it).
Quite correct. They simply haven't been around long enough for a conclusion to be drawn, so any evidence, irrespective of source, is more informed probability conjecture than reliable fact. What bugs me is the utter lack of importance attached to the release of such a radical change of pace & potential mutation into the eco system. If we were talking about a new drug, then the duty of care/monitoring/testing & regulation protocols are pretty tight. In the US, the FDA would be crawling all over it. To me, it's lamentable that the US authorities are happy to use their general population as lab rats. Danger or no resultant danger, it's the bastardised principals that irk.

In the UK, there have been some limited GM crop trials. I've no issue with testing stuff out that may have benefits, but it needs time, & lots of it. These trial areas were significantly detached/screened from adjacent fields due to the PROVEN issues surrounding both physical transfer & wind bourn contamination.
 
Is anyone here familiar with the Ray Bradbury short story, A Sound Of Thunder?

Any paranoia I have about the unintended consequences of man messing with cloning, genetics and even regional species predator/prey introduction is rooted in that book. Like Upton Sinclair's The Jungle (speaking of food), it left quite an impression on me as a young person.
 
Scares the crap outta me. The FDA allows multinationals like Monsanto, who are one of the companies that are genetically modifying the food supply, to police themselves! Their stance is, "Oh yea, if you want to experiment with the food supply, on unsuspecting people, hey, we can't see any possible harm in that".

That is insanity. There's not even any labeling requirements. They can give us whatever they want.

The only way I know around it is to hunt the game behind my house and eat the wild vegetation, not really too feasible. You can't grow your own, the seeds you buy are modified. So many things we already consume are already modified, wheat being a prime example. Notice the rise in gluten free menu's lately? That's because the GM wheat is affecting more people with a propensity towards gluten intolerance. My own wife dropped gluten from her diet and she is looking and acting way healthier. I understand Europe is pulling GMO of their shelves. I dearly hope market forces prevail and stops the insanity. I don't know any way around this, as the food supply is managed by only a few companies.

I was curious as to what the international community thinks about this frightening subject. It negatively affects the health of each and every one of us in a major way.

I call it raw, unhindered capitalism. That's what the USA does best.

Honey bees collect the pollen from flowers of these plants, then can't find their way home. This may be the catalyst for the impending Zombie Apocalypse. Ya never know.
http://health.yahoo.net/news/s/nm/studies-show-how-pesticides-make-bees-lose-their-way
 
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