Does your dog or cat have conscious thought?

Larry

"Uncle Larry"
I've always wondered this. Are they self aware? It seems to me they must be to some extent anyway. If humans are 100% self aware I wonder what percentage your pets are. Or Sticks lol. (Bam! JK dog!) My cat gets mad when he doesn't like his food, and shows other signs of conscious thought. Other times he seems oblivious. I would love to know how much they experience, or not.
 
My understanding of animals like this is that they can learn and react but do not think.
I remember a guy by the name of Pavlov ringing a bell and feeding his dogs, then just ringing the bell and they would salivate. But thought, not to my learning. I'm sure all of the dog and cat owners will disagree. But don't confuse reaction to stimulus and inherent activity to thought.
 
I've always wondered this. Are they self aware? It seems to me they must be to some extent anyway. If humans are 100% self aware I wonder what percentage your pets are. Or Sticks lol. (Bam! JK dog!) My cat gets mad when he doesn't like his food, and shows other signs of conscious thought. Other times he seems oblivious. I would love to know how much they experience, or not.

Not to nit-pick, but I do not believe humans are 100% self aware.

Hell, many people go through life never waking up, for even one day.
 
My understanding of animals like this is that they can learn and react but do not think.
I remember a guy by the name of Pavlov ringing a bell and feeding his dogs, then just ringing the bell and they would salivate. But thought, not to my learning. I'm sure all of the dog and cat owners will disagree. But don't confuse reaction to stimulus and inherent activity to thought.

I don't know. My folks' Labradors are quite intelligent when it comes to food...
 
How can you be so sure of that? Have you ever been in their position?

Merely an observation. And to be clear I said, 'I believe" and I stand by that.

People have beliefs, in many different things. I just happen to believe that most people don't understand what they are doing day to day. This argument could go on and on, but I figured so when I first made the statement.
 
A little story. I was taking the family dog for a walk in the large college grounds nearby. This mainly consists of two things - playing fetch and sniffing tours (where I give my arm a break).

Sometimes she gets caught up and I have to call her to come. On this occasion she was rolling on the ground. Then she'd get up and hurl herself back on to the ground for another roll. She was so absorbed I couldn't get her to come to me.

So I walked to her. I realised to my disgust that she had found a dead bird and she was rolling on it over and over. I said "Zara, get up! Rolling on a bird! What sort of damn fool thing is that to do!".

That got me thinking - what got into her? The pat answer would be "to mask her scent for hunting" but she never hunts. It's not a big deal to her. Then it struck me - this was about dog gossip!

Here's how I think it goes ....

She found a dead bird, no doubt a pretty cool thing in the dog world, given that dogs are both hunters and scavengers. So she gets a good dose of the scent on her. Then, when she next comes across another dog that scent is like her saying "I saw dead bird!". Then the dog would sniff and go "Wow! You saw dead bird! You cool dog!". I expect a few more sniffs would establish the rough location of the bird.

I'm pretty confident of this. Her next interaction with a dog (and wasn't she keen to show off her special smell) definitely focused on the smell on her back.

Yep, they have conscious thought, probably roughly on the level of humans before their second birthday. Since dad's dementia has increased I find that dealing with him and the dog to be strikingly similar. It's all about basic needs with a few quirky little wants.

I agree with ionthetable that many humans don't seem too flash at conscious thought but are competent at parroting what they read in the tabloids and hear on talkback radio.
 
If by conscious thought, you mean emotions, dogs definitely possess them. Or at least every dog I've owned or know gets mad, feels sad, gets confused, feels joy and excitement, or even shame. That's why they're such great companions, they mirror so much of what humans feel.

Bermuda
 
A little story. I was taking the family dog for a walk in the large college grounds nearby. This mainly consists of two things - playing fetch and sniffing tours (where I give my arm a break).

Sometimes she gets caught up and I have to call her to come. On this occasion she was rolling on the ground. Then she'd get up and hurl herself back on to the ground for another roll. She was so absorbed I couldn't get her to come to me.

So I walked to her. I realised to my disgust that she had found a dead bird and she was rolling on it over and over. I said "Zara, get up! Rolling on a bird! What sort of damn fool thing is that to do!".

That got me thinking - what got into her? The pat answer would be "to mask her scent for hunting" but she never hunts. It's not a big deal to her. Then it struck me - this was about dog gossip!

Here's how I think it goes ....

She found a dead bird, no doubt a pretty cool thing in the dog world, given that dogs are both hunters and scavengers. So she gets a good dose of the scent on her. Then, when she next comes across another dog that scent is like her saying "I saw dead bird!". Then the dog would sniff and go "Wow! You saw dead bird! You cool dog!". I expect a few more sniffs would establish the rough location of the bird.

I'm pretty confident of this. Her next interaction with a dog (and wasn't she keen to show off her special smell) definitely focused on the smell on her back.

Yep, they have conscious thought, probably roughly on the level of humans before their second birthday. Since dad's dementia has increased I find that dealing with him and the dog to be strikingly similar. It's all about basic needs with a few quirky little wants.

I agree with ionthetable that many humans don't seem too flash at conscious thought but are competent at parroting what they read in the tabloids and hear on talkback radio.

"Ionthetable" haha preferably pine ")

Anyhow, that's a really interesting observation Polly. Honestly, the thought of whether or not other creatures are concious doesn't fascinate me too much. But that doesnt mean I dont enjoy reading recounts of situations, such as the one you've presented.

On that note, I've observed many humans 'rolling around on a dead bird, just to satisfy their surrounding peers'
 
If by conscious thought, you mean emotions, dogs definitely possess them. Or at least every dog I've owned or know gets mad, feels sad, gets confused, feels joy and excitement, or even shame. That's why they're such great companions, they mirror so much of what humans feel.

Bermuda
Emotions are just that. Thought is a reasoning process.
 
"Ionthetable" haha preferably pine ")

Anyhow, that's a really interesting observation Polly. Honestly, the thought of whether or not other creatures are concious doesn't fascinate me too much. But that doesnt mean I dont enjoy reading recounts of situations, such as the one you've presented.

On that note, I've observed many humans 'rolling around on a dead bird, just to satisfy their surrounding peers'

Ion the Table ... has a ring to it, dunnit?

Yeah, there I think they do have conscious thought - it's all a matter of degree. They are just more present moment - they don't seem able to conceptualise, recall and project into the future as we do but they definitely think and strategise in a limited way in the present moment.

They see and understand the patterns of activity around them and adapt to them just as we do. It's beyond just classical conditioning.

If all animals have no conscious thought then why do they have differing levels of intelligence. What is the cognition difference between a dog and, say, a beetle? It's as profound as the difference between a human and a dog, maybe more so.

C'mon GD, this is for you ... put up yer dukes :)
 
"They see and understand the patterns of activity around them and adapt to them just as we do. It's beyond just classical conditioning."

Adapt is the same as react. Again they can learn and have memory. If they see the same thing twice they will probably react the same way twice.

They have different levels of intelligence because they learn at different rates and retain different levels. Same as humans. Rats learn to rum mazes thru repetition. They use different signals to remember such as color, smell, sounds etc.

Human twins have been separated and although they have the same DNA, same ability to learn genetically, they learn at different rates depending on experiences. What separates us from the others is the ability to learn to think and have thought. There may be a fine line between cognitive thought and learning but humans that have been injured are said to be in a "vegetative state" This is harsh but they have lost their reasoning skills. As I said this is my opinion from my education classes, psychology and sociology classes. Feel free to develop your own opinion. You do have those reasoning skills.
 
Have we really run out of drum topics. I say buy the Saturns! :)
 
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