Leading the band

Larry

"Uncle Larry"
I was wondering how many of you guys feel, tempo-wise, you conduct the band or do you feel as though someone else is the conductor, and you defer to them.

Myself, in my one band I am in charge of counts and endings and in the other band I'm not.
 
I feel like I'm the conductor of the tempo in my current band. But I've been in both situations over the years and I'm comfortable with either.
 
If someone else wants to count in, I'm all for it. If it's too slow or too fast, then we can get out the metronome and see what's what. Clicks are a pain to learn to play with, but they end a lot of arguments!

I'll usually be the last one to cue the ending, unless the song structure is pre-determined, because that's when the soloists are doing their thing, or the vocalist is vamping, or someone is trying to play something cool. I'll watch whomever is riffing, shredding, Coltraning, whatever, and wait for that person to finish. When they look back, then it's time to bring it home.

Mid-song, though, I've found it's better to be boss than defer. If you know you have solid time, why not? Besides, the players who do have good time appreciate it, and they tend to be the ones you want to work with anyway.
 
I count in all the songs except for the ones that start off with a riff or where it just not appropriate.

"Unchain My Heart" is like that. The vocal intro sets the tempo with only cymbal flourishes for 4 bars.

We do spend much less time rehearsing now. I lead most rehearsals and have become the referee for getting the arrangements, stops, endings and tempo together. I make everybody look at each other and if someone wanders in tempo, I put out the "none shall pass" vibe. Unless, of course, it's a cool push pull and everybody is feeling it.

I have a lot of empathy for the guitar players. I often think that it's harder for them than for me to learn stuff. They've got key changes, rhythms and leads, etc.. .. so I only lead the band from a point of view that I'm setting everybody else up. It might seem a little contradictory but I sort of lead by supporting.

Both of our guitar players sing, so they choose about 75% of the songs we do. One of our guitarists has a great time and he can "Voodoo Child" all he wants and I don't have to worry.

Bass and Harp stick with me and only occasionally are there two wild horses up front.

Musically we all lead in some fashion but tempo wise it's mostly me.
 
I'm comfortable setting tempos on songs where I play at the top. When another instrument has a solo intro, although I can do it here also I'd prefer that player establishes the tempo with his/her part. I think it's goofy for me to count/click tempo and then not play at the top. Every musician in a performing group has a responsibility to have good time, not just the drummer.
 
Not that I'm wanting to pretend to be doing a hell of a lot of live work these days Larry, but when I do...or certainly when I have done in the past, it's case by case (or should I say, song by song).
 
I lead the tempo most times. These days my system is to sing the part of the fastest part of the lyric.

Larry, you've often talked about tempo being critical and I agree. Get it right and everyone feels comfortable.
 
I conduct the tempo mostly, but we have lots of guitar intros which i don't count in for (sounds kinda lame). If the temoo's wrong then I just push it gradually, but playing originals most people aren't gunna know. Currently I'm working on making sure we don't just end up playing the same tempo for every song when the adrenaline kicks in!
 
I count most songs in for both bands...I'm working on keeping the tempos under control...How do you deal with band members rushing parts of songs? Any suggests? TX's Denis
 
I count most songs in for both bands...I'm working on keeping the tempos under control...How do you deal with band members rushing parts of songs? Any suggests? TX's Denis

Yes, I have this all the time. Often I wrestle with them and try to get them to come to me. Sometimes I give them a gentle spanking afterwards. Sometimes I say in group emails that I think X song would sound better a bit slower. Sometimes I give up and go with the flow, especially if the singer is pushing ... when the singer is pulling ahead it makes you sound like you're dragging.

I try hard to think of the others when calling tempos because sometimes a song is better off a couple of bpm fast if it means tempo peace during the song. Then chances are that someone will suddenly wake up to it and say "I think that was a bit fast" ... there is no justice for drummers in this life ...

Still, it's up to me as the drummer to sound so inviting that the others feel compelled to come to me. So I'm trying to clean up my time.
 
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In the band that I defer to the leader, he starts all the songs off, cues the endings and regulates how long we hold the last note for. Also during the song, his sense of time feels better than mine so I watch him. Everyone feels tempo a little different and I am learning a lot from him, he has a great sense of speed...mainly it's a very relaxed feeling. I tend to push things slightly and it's a great learning experience to play with someone who feels time in a more relaxed way than myself. I like his time feel and find myself having to chill a little more with him. The playback always proves his tempo feel to be spot on, and by not pushing things, he makes me sound even better.

Usually I am the guy in the band with the most advanced feel for time and tempo but this guy is many levels above me. I am grateful to be able to refine my sense of time even further with him.
 
In a wedding band I play with we play to sequences, and I have a click into my headphones to keep the band in line with the sequence. All night. Every song. Click click click click click click click click click click click . All players must defer to me, and my boss's name is Mac. Please, kill me.
 
Ever band I've been in, I am the conductor. All follow me.

Now, back when I was doing pick up gigs, then who ever had hired me for the night was the conductor, because only they knew what song we were going to do next!
 
I'm comfortable setting tempos on songs where I play at the top. When another instrument has a solo intro, although I can do it here also I'd prefer that player establishes the tempo with his/her part. I think it's goofy for me to count/click tempo and then not play at the top. Every musician in a performing group has a responsibility to have good time, not just the drummer.

I'm glad to see the topic of what to do in situations where the drums don't enter right away has been brought up. This can be tricky for the band. In most situations I've played in, the guys prefer that I count in the tempo even if it means I then lay out for a few measures.

I've also started using a metronome to set my own internal clock before counting songs in lately. Some songs I could count in in my sleep. But for those I sometimes get the tempos wrong for, I've memorized the BPMs and just do a quick sanity check before I start things off. I keep the metronome handy, dial it in and listen to a few beats of it, then turn it off and do my thing.
 
Okay, here's a related question: How many bars do you count in? I tend to do a longer count: "1... 2... 1, 2, 3, 4." I find it helps everyone lock in better. With bands that have more solid time, I might do just an 8th note count in: "1, 2, 3, 4."

Curious about how others do it.
 
The guitarist does 3. At first I found it incredibly confusing to come in on the 4. I'm getting used to it and it helps to think of it as 2 3 4... On the stuff I count in we can hit a collision where it's a beat off. For gigging situations how many of you have an audible count in versus a discrete one. I feel like our stuff is over the top but we've got a ways to go before a gig is considered.

A cold open is optimal for some of our stuff but we can be so out of sync it's painful, interested to hear cues and other tips.
 
Sometimes when we're doing a medium to medium fast tempo songs and we come into a lead guitar part, one of guitar players jumps the temp a bit (sometimes we all get excited). This tempo shift he does causes him to want to keep going on the 4 instead of the 1 of the next bar. The bass player and I know this and as soon as it happens, I spank the bell on the ride and crash on the 1 sort of short and everybody's synched up again. We laugh about it sometimes because when he does it and we do a little accent as he goes on it seems intentional to everybody else.

Sort of like we turned a tempo shift into a lick.
 
In my last gigging band, the rhythm guitar player / lead singer started off all the songs and then we call came in right after a few beats. Rarely did all of us begin at precisely the same time, which thinking back, we should have spent more time beginning and ending the songs.

We had another band open for us once and critique us. The word we got was we need to decide how to end the songs and not mess around.
 
I count off the songs but more than a few times I have been told by one member of the band that we are either too fast or too slow. Then again, he's such a "structured" player, he can't improvise "on the spot" if a chance to take a ride is thrown his way.

I always tell him that if I don't call the tempo right, he can count it off.

But for the most part, the bass player and I lock in together and everyone else falls in.
 
Okay, here's a related question: How many bars do you count in? I tend to do a longer count: "1... 2... 1, 2, 3, 4." I find it helps everyone lock in better. With bands that have more solid time, I might do just an 8th note count in: "1, 2, 3, 4."

Curious about how others do it.

In an earlier thread some people were insinuating that drummers who need the full 1 2 1234 count are shamateur nancy loser fags (or something to that effect) so I decided to act. At the start of First Time Ever ISYF I started testing the alertness of the gang by going into it withou a count ... I play the ruffed 8th note one-beat intro and if they miss I laugh at them :)

It's a game ... once that song is next I'll jump into it without warning (after checking that there's no tuning etc going on). Especially good when people are gasbagging too much ...

While this started out as a game, it works out great at gigs - everyone is alert when that one's next and they know I'm just as liable to throw them a curly at a gig as I am at rehearsal. Our bassist has it sussed after a few roastings ... at any given time - even mid-conversation - I can play that lick and he'll jump in on cue - very cool :)

Like pets, musicians can be difficult to train, but it's most rewarding when you turn an unruly string plucker into an obedient servant to The Drummer ... as it should be.

Having said all that, I mostly do the same as you 1 2 1234, or for slow blues, 1 2 123123 :)
 
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