How do they do that - recording/releasing cover albums?

Chromium

Senior Member
Record other peoples material?

Perhaps I should be asking Bermuda this question, as I'm sure he's in the know.

How on earth do cover bands and artists get away with releasing an album of covered material?
Do they simply ignore copyright?

I've seen cover bands release CD albums to sell at their gigs with nothing but covers on them; sometimes selling for as little as £3.99. Surely they have not got permissions from all the original copyright holders or original artists/songwriters. So how do they get away with it?

I'm in a covers band and I'd love to record some of the great songs we play, by artists such as The Beach Boys, ELO, Chuck Berry, Everly Bros. etc. Whilst we play this material we bring our own interpretations to the songs rather than exactly replicate the originals.

I don't even want to sell the CDs, just use for promotion or to give away to our handful of regular fans, but I'd be scared $h1T we would be sued and lose what little we own in legal fees.

How do bands such as all the well known tribute bands like 'The Bootleg Beatles', 'Bjorn Again' and 'Pink Fraud' manage... Do they license everything? Surely it would cost them a packet?

Is there anything I can do?
 
Record other peoples material?

Perhaps I should be asking Bermuda this question, as I'm sure he's in the know.

How on earth do cover bands and artists get away with releasing an album of covered material?
Do they simply ignore copyright?

I've seen cover bands release CD albums to sell at their gigs with nothing but covers on them; sometimes selling for as little as £3.99. Surely they have not got permissions from all the original copyright holders or original artists/songwriters. So how do they get away with it?

I'm in a covers band and I'd love to record some of the great songs we play, by artists such as The Beach Boys, ELO, Chuck Berry, Everly Bros. etc. Whilst we play this material we bring our own interpretations to the songs rather than exactly replicate the originals.

I don't even want to sell the CDs, just use for promotion or to give away to our handful of regular fans, but I'd be scared $h1T we would be sued and lose what little we own in legal fees.

How do bands such as all the well known tribute bands like 'The Bootleg Beatles', 'Bjorn Again' and 'Pink Fraud' manage... Do they license everything? Surely it would cost them a packet?

Is there anything I can do?

I'm astonished that a covers band would sell a CD of covers on it for financial gain.
Absolutely flabbergasted.
That's no different than me taking some written copyrighted stuff, modifying slighly, and releasing as my own. A total fraud, in other words.
Very interested in the answer to this question as our originals band slip a couple of unusual covers in our set (thought this will end shortly as our setlist is nearly filled with originals) and would like to do things right if, as I am suspecting, that we are illegal and should, somehow be 'covering' (pardon the pun) ourselves.
 
They join ASCAP and are allowed certain permissions. I have over 40 CD's of other people doing Beatles songs. They also pay royalties.


http://www.ascap.com

Or... they don't, but because they're a small regional act with a following in the dozens, not the thousands, they never sell more than a boxful, and so kind of fly under the radar of the original artists' normal enforcers - the record companies.

It would be hard to get out into every hole in the wall pub and crawlspace with a stage in the world, demand to see the cover band's ASCAP license, and fine them for noncompliance. Because technically, they're playing the song for money (or at least drinks), without permission.
 
I'm astonished that a covers band would sell a CD of covers on it for financial gain.

Me too hence my questions...

I am suspecting, that we are illegal and should, somehow be 'covering' (pardon the pun) ourselves.

I worry about this too, but here in UK as I'm sure you know, since the sixties pubs and clubs are full of small bands covering others originals. I'm sure that the pin-money they're making precludes them from making copyright payments (if they even know... or care!).

Surely even the 'big' cover bands I mention can't be doing it legally.

I used to be a TV cameraman/editor and a few years ago when we wanted to license 30 seconds of a Beatles song for a TV/DVD documentary to be shown on VH1, the copyright owners wanted £12,000 per 30-seconds for UK region only and for a three year period. So I'm thinking someone like the Bootleg Beatles who use a massive quantity of Beatles material, would be paying hundreds of thousands of pounds a year in licensing if it was all done legally? Same for Bjorn Again etc.
 
Disclaimer- I am not a lawyer, and this isn't legal advice. But opinion based on experience follows:

IMNSHO, the right way to do it (in the USA, anyway) is to contact the Harry Fox Agency, http://www.harryfox.com/ . These guys serve as a one-stop-shopping approach to mechanical (reproduction) licensing of copyrighted materials for folks like us. They serve as the middleman between an artist who wishes to produce and sell a cover version of another artists's work, and handle all the paperwork and negotiations for 90% of the ASCAP and BMI publishers out there.

HFA makes it really trivial to do. You provide them with the list of tunes and the number of copies you intend to produce, and they tell you how much to make the check out for, to cover the licensing and royalties due to the publishers, and their cut. They then in turn provide you with the license documentation that indicates that you have in fact purchased the legal right to produce that many copies. You send copies of the license doc on through to whatever dupe house is doing your duplication, and you keep it on file in case any questions ever arise- and you are covered. Good dupe houses will require proof of copyright ownership, or appropriate mechanical licensing, before they'll *touch* your dupe work in this copyright-intensive age. The liabilities can be enormous.

Now, above, I mentioned that they do 90% of the publishers out there. There are however a number of publishers that don't go through Fox, and require you to negotiate directly with them to acquire mechanical, synchronization, or performance rights. Doing this can be an immense pain in the ass and take months. I'd go so far as to say that it is often worth abandoning material from some of the publishers, they make it so hard to do. I was involved with recording an organization that wanted to obtain rights to cover an obscure piece from a certain big movie/cartoon house that rhymes with Ault Dizzy, for example. It took over a year to finally get in place, and was an outright nightmare for them.

In short, it is easy and remarkably cheap to do it right in most cases.The ultimate advice still has to be "Do it right, and Do *Not* Mess With The Mouse".
 
Lots of good advice on the situation in the USA, but after some research I see that PRS seems to licence the venues for live music here in the UK and the onus appears to be on the venue to return lists of music played. However this does not cover recordings...
Anyone got any ideas on how to do this in the UK?
 
Making a new recording of someone else's song and selling it requires the customary payments to the writers (who are not necessarily the performing artists) and publishers (which often changes hands over time... such as McCartney buying the Buddy Holly publishing.)

Licensing is different, It's paying up front to use someone else's recording, for which royalties must also be paid based on sales. Example: the "Now..." CD series, filled with artists' original recordings. Sure a bunch of money is paid in advance and no additional payments for the songs themselves go to the people who made the compilation, but overall sales far outweigh those expenses and payments, and that's where the profit is.

Certainly it is possible to record covers and issue your own (illegal) CD for sale at gigs, just hope you don't get caught. The penalties go far beyond the actual fairly small losses to the writers/publishers.

Technically, at least in the USA, bands that perform cover songs are liable for payments as well. When a jukebox plays a song, payments are made, and the same goes for radio, and streamed songs from certain sites.

This conversation about what a song is worth has come up many times. The only way I can explain it is that if you had written a song, and got nothing in return from someone else profiting from your work... you'd understand.

Bermuda
 
...if you had written a song, and got nothing in return from someone else profiting from your work... you'd understand.

I have... so I certainly understand. I wrote a number of instrumental pieces for video machines in the early noughties used all over the world. However was an employee of the company making the software at the time, so even though the games made many hundreds of millions, I saw not a penny.

I certainly want to stay legal and legit... just would like to promote my band somehow, but can't even legally upload videos or recordings of our music. My question came about because I see lots of others doing just that and I can't believe they're doing it legitimately; it would cost them too much to make it worth their while.
 
"Through the Looking Glass" is the 11th studio album by the American band Toto. It was released in 2002. The album consists only of covers of songs that have inspired the band.

Toto is respectable band, I'm sure that this CD is totally legal, from a royalties fee point of view, I don't know how they've done it, but it's possible to release an album made of cover songs.

Many, many artists and bands are covering songs which are included in their albums, even if it's only one song, they must be paying some kind of royalties to the original writer(s) of the song they've covered, it's common practice to cover songs from other bands/artists and include them in your own albums/CDs.

Back in the days I was in a cover band in Switzerland, we use to give the set list to the venue owner, he's the one who was paying the fees to play music within his venue.

What about you Bermuda? Al is covering many songs from other artists, what do you have to do to release the album?
 
What about you Bermuda? Al is covering many songs from other artists, what do you have to do to release the album?

It's as simple as paying the writing and publishing. And in Al's case, where he has written "new lyrics" for the parodies/covers, he gets roughly half of the writing and publishing for his contribution to the "new" song. Of course, the percentage is negotiated in advance so there are no surprises, and this is one reason he asks the original writer's permission to do the parody in the first place.

Bermuda
 
It's as simple as paying the writing and publishing. And in Al's case, where he has written "new lyrics" for the parodies/covers, he gets roughly half of the writing and publishing for his contribution to the "new" song. Of course, the percentage is negotiated in advance so there are no surprises, and this is one reason he asks the original writer's permission to do the parody in the first place.

Bermuda

So, would this mean that a band like, Dread Zeppelin (they do reggae versions of Zep songs), because they are only re-arranging the song, they get no percentage at all? No wonder Robert Plant and Jimmy Page love those guys. They're like the gift that keeps on giving. I can see a heavy covers band operating in the red sooner or later, eh?
 
However was an employee of the company making the software at the time, so even though the games made many hundreds of millions, I saw not a penny.

And barring a separate agreement, this is very commom and completely legit when you are employed or doing a work for hire (basically, temporarily employed.)

I certainly want to stay legal and legit... just would like to promote my band somehow, but can't even legally upload videos or recordings of our music. My question came about because I see lots of others doing just that and I can't believe they're doing it legitimately; it would cost them too much to make it worth their while.

Depending how they do it, it might be considered legit. For example, if 30-45 sec excerpts of songs are uploaded, it can't really be construed as giving anything away or causing losses to anyone. It could probably be challenged, but being able to prove damages would be impossible.

If in doubt, consult an attorney who deals with internet law and intellectual property.

Bermuda
 
So, would this mean that a band like, Dread Zeppelin (they do reggae versions of Zep songs), because they are only re-arranging the song, they get no percentage at all? No wonder Robert Plant and Jimmy Page love those guys. They're like the gift that keeps on giving. I can see a heavy covers band operating in the red sooner or later, eh?

Does interpretation and performance have zero value - only composition?
 
So, would this mean that a band like, Dread Zeppelin (they do reggae versions of Zep songs), because they are only re-arranging the song, they get no percentage at all? No wonder Robert Plant and Jimmy Page love those guys. They're like the gift that keeps on giving. I can see a heavy covers band operating in the red sooner or later, eh?

I don't know to what extent the arrangement must be changed to qualify for a cut of the "writing", but if the words and basic music aren't altered, the arranger doesn't get anything. But there's still money for those who do strictly covers, well, whatever the label doesn't grab. Those are separate agreements, and what the band gets also depends on whether they owns their sound recordings (masters.) But most bands/artists don't.

In the case of DZ, they made some money from sales, but a lot more from personal appearances. For them, the CDs promoted the shows, which probably helped sell more CDs.

Bermuda
 
Bermuda, I'm surprised the Al group has to pay anybody "royalty" money... I thought parody was expressly not affected by copyright. Guess I'm mis-informed.
 
Bermuda, I'm surprised the Al group has to pay anybody "royalty" money... I thought parody was expressly not affected by copyright. Guess I'm mis-informed.

The fair use laws don't extend to those who wish to make money from a composition's "use". That's why news programs can use songs without payment, and why morning DJs can cook up parodies and broadcast them on the air. But if that radio station issues a "best of morning personalities" CD with the parody, they then have to pay.

The instant money is involved, fair use goes out the window. As it should. Anyone who's written a song that's used elsewhere for profit, should be paid for creating a work that's worth using.

Bermuda
 
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