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  #1  
Old 01-23-2019, 11:35 PM
Mustion Mustion is offline
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Default How to get endorced by a simble company's?

KIDDING!

I've read enough of those "omg I just got endorsed!!1!" threads to be entertained and intrigued by this arguably predatory marketing strategy by these boutiques. But what I do wonder is: how many of those who have an "endorsement deal" with one of these companies, actually continued to endorse said brand long enough to continue buying cymbals (or drums, whatever) after the first full set purchase?

Back in the day, what we knew as endorsers stuck with a brand long enough and were so strongly identified with them to the degree that it was a big deal when they "made the jump" to a competitor, and those guys got a good bit more than the opportunity to buy a whole set of cymbals at-cost and have their name at the bottom of some big list on a website...
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Old 01-24-2019, 02:55 AM
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Default Re: How to get endorced by a simble company's?

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Originally Posted by Mustion View Post
KIDDING!

I've read enough of those "omg I just got endorsed!!1!" threads to be entertained and intrigued by this arguably predatory marketing strategy by these boutiques. But what I do wonder is: how many of those who have an "endorsement deal" with one of these companies, actually continued to endorse said brand long enough to continue buying cymbals (or drums, whatever) after the first full set purchase?

Back in the day, what we knew as endorsers stuck with a brand long enough and were so strongly identified with them to the degree that it was a big deal when they "made the jump" to a competitor, and those guys got a good bit more than the opportunity to buy a whole set of cymbals at-cost and have their name at the bottom of some big list on a website...
Years ago when these types of things started to pop up and when I was in an actively touring band, drummers in smaller bands seemed to really eat these types of things up because they thought it made them look cool. Basically a lot of cymbal and drum companies that overinflated their prices and would offer "endorsement" deals to basically sell their stuff for what street price would normally be.

I guess it was/is a win/win though. Drummers that could never get an endorsement from a big 4 cymbal company or big name drum company could get an "endorsement" and feel like a big time drummer. The companies got to sell product and get free advertisement for nothing more than putting a picture and a name on a website.

I don't know if these things are quite as popular as they once were. I remember seeing a lot of drum kits and cymbals from companies put up for sale after a while too. You could find these "custom" companies up for sale dirt cheap after a while.

Edit: I intentionally left out brand names in this post in efforts to try and not offend anyone.
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Old 01-24-2019, 03:32 AM
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Default Re: How to get endorced by a simble company's?

I admit, the title made me laugh when I saw it listed on the main page. ha ha
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Old 01-24-2019, 04:30 AM
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Default Re: How to get endorced by a simble company's?

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Originally Posted by BertTheDrummer View Post
..Drummers that could never get an endorsement from a big 4 cymbal company or big name drum company could get an "endorsement" and feel like a big time drummer..

Which in my opinion, when being older than 20, is a little pathetic..

If an endorsement would mean that you can choose every now and then for free the gear that you want from a certain company, then i would understand..

But to actually still pay for all those products, even with a big discount, and then to shout to everyone who wants to listen that you have an endorsement, to me is pretty childish and not making much sense..
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Old 01-24-2019, 05:45 AM
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Default Re: How to get endorced by a simble company's?

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But to actually still pay for all those products, even with a big discount, and then to shout to everyone who wants to listen that you have an endorsement, to me is pretty childish and not making much sense..
It is actually still quite a bit. For example, I forgot which company it was, but this guy I knew was trying to get me to sign on with a cymbal company he "endorsed." He talked about how cool it was and all that, I'm guessing he prob got a recruitment fee out of the whole deal which is why he was pushing so hard.

Anyway, turns out these cymbals with the "discount" were still going to cost as much if not more than going to buy Zildjians or Sabians off the shelf. That wasn't including the fact that I had to buy a certain amount from the company too. Anyway, not making any claims if the company produced quality or not, they were probably great cymbals. Just like a lot of those drum companies making custom keller shell kits and offering endorsements probably make good drums as well. That whole endorsement thing just wasn't for me.
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Old 01-24-2019, 07:38 AM
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Default Re: How to get endorced by a simble company's?

No, none of these guys were going to be long-term endorsers of these brands. Few if any of them had probably even played the cymbals before "endorsing" them. It was a straight-up sales gimmick playing on the desire of the young/new drummer to "have an endorsement" - even though, as Bermuda would point out, the drummer endorses the product and not the other way around.

I may never be on the artist roster of any of the brands I play, but I do endorse them.
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Old 01-24-2019, 10:55 AM
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Default Re: How to get endorced by a simble company's?

I've lost count of the number of emails I received (& still do) asking for some form of "deal". For many (mostly younger players) it's seen as a badge of honour - a validation of sorts. I get that to a degree, but so do predatory brand pushers, & that's a level of deception / exploitation I find very distasteful.

At the other end of the scale, you'd be surprised how many players of modest note walk around with an inflated sense of entitlement, & expect companies to scramble for the opportunity.

The reality is this - unless you have a significant player reputation &/or major act association, most companies aren't interested in offering anything approaching a fully supported package. Amongst most players at that level, so long as the product quality is acceptable, it's all about the support package / relationship + reciprocal exposure. There are exceptions, of course, but that's the general thrust of things.
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Old 01-24-2019, 12:09 PM
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Default Re: How to get endorced by a simble company's?

Isn't Soultone the answer to this question :). I heard they were offering ANYBODY an endorsement at NAMM last year. Quick get me on a kite across the pond!

If you like a product that much wouldn't you just buy it anyway? You're more likely to get a deal from a company if you're already using their equipment. Otherwise you're begging for free stuff.

I don't get why people push their luck with the boutique builders and smaller cymbal companies. It's usually their living so asking someone to work their arse off for exposure is just rude. These kids might think exposure is a form of payment but sadly this way of payment hasn't made it to mortgage companies and utility providers.

A guy I went to uni with blagged a free kit from Premier, complete dick move. He told them some cock and bull story about who he was and who he played with. He was invited to the factory but obviously couldn't prove anything. They knew they'd been played

The only kind of 'deal' I have is for sticks with a company called Pellwood. They have a rep (Darren) who supplies most of the working drummers I know. I'd been using them for years and finally decided to get some custom sticks which was an extra £25 so they could put the design on the computer. Other than that the cost was exactly the same as before £72 for 16 pairs. I'd rather support these companies than get ripped off by Vic Firth/Pro-mark etc
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Old 01-24-2019, 04:47 PM
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Default Re: How to get endorced by a simble company's?

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Originally Posted by Andy View Post
At the other end of the scale, you'd be surprised how many players of modest note walk around with an inflated sense of entitlement, & expect companies to scramble for the opportunity.
This.

Working in drum shops for years, I met many who went from consumers buying gear to suddenly thinking they deserve an endorsement, just because.

And the internet has made it far worse, with some drummers finding/seeking fame without ever leaving their basement.
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Old 01-24-2019, 04:50 PM
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Default Re: How to get endorced by a simble company's?

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Originally Posted by mikyok View Post

I don't get why people push their luck with the boutique builders and smaller cymbal companies.
I went with Pork Pie USA before they started making stuff overseas because back then (circa 2002) they were still sort of an off-the-beaten-path company at the time who was making incredible drums. I went to a dealer and quizzed them for well over an hour on them and what makes them different than everyone else at the time. I now own two sets, and I don't know if I could be happier with a drum set.

I spent really good money on a set of Heartbeat cymbals, but ONLY after I had the opportunity to play a set of them. After I played them, it was a very "I must have some of these ASAP" moment, and I've not had very many of them.

I also got an offer as an endorser from a small drum company that's based an hour from my home. While I do like these drums, they are really expensive and I simply don't need them. But you know what? If I had the money, I'd say why not? I think it would be really cool to have a voice in the R&D in a small company. It would be really cool to be playing out a lot all the while staying in touch with the builder, and having conversations about what works well and what doesn't, trying new things, etc. Maybe he could throw me a snare drum or floor tom to try out on a gig...not to keep, but to see how it does in real-world circumstances. If I really liked what I was hearing, maybe we could work out a deal for me to pay him at cost to keep it, but now he has info on something that could work to expand his business. I think it would be really cool to have that sort of relationship.

However, I'm not all that in favor of getting an endorsement like that's discussed above in other posts. I think it's sort of cheesy to get an "endorsement" with an instrument that will never leave a bedroom or a basement, where the company only benefits from the initial sale and any sort of relationship is non-existent.
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Old 01-24-2019, 05:03 PM
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Default Re: How to get endorced by a simble company's?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy View Post
I've lost count of the number of emails I received (& still do) asking for some form of "deal". For many (mostly younger players) it's seen as a badge of honour - a validation of sorts. I get that to a degree, but so do predatory brand pushers, & that's a level of deception / exploitation I find very distasteful.

At the other end of the scale, you'd be surprised how many players of modest note walk around with an inflated sense of entitlement, & expect companies to scramble for the opportunity.

The reality is this - unless you have a significant player reputation &/or major act association, most companies aren't interested in offering anything approaching a fully supported package. Amongst most players at that level, so long as the product quality is acceptable, it's all about the support package / relationship + reciprocal exposure. There are exceptions, of course, but that's the general thrust of things.
I'm still waiting for your return email. I really like GooRoo drums.
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  #12  
Old 01-24-2019, 05:52 PM
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Default Re: How to get endorced by a simble company's?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PorkPieGuy View Post
I went with Pork Pie USA before they started making stuff overseas because back then (circa 2002) they were still sort of an off-the-beaten-path company at the time who was making incredible drums. I went to a dealer and quizzed them for well over an hour on them and what makes them different than everyone else at the time. I now own two sets, and I don't know if I could be happier with a drum set.

I spent really good money on a set of Heartbeat cymbals, but ONLY after I had the opportunity to play a set of them. After I played them, it was a very "I must have some of these ASAP" moment, and I've not had very many of them.

I also got an offer as an endorser from a small drum company that's based an hour from my home. While I do like these drums, they are really expensive and I simply don't need them. But you know what? If I had the money, I'd say why not? I think it would be really cool to have a voice in the R&D in a small company. It would be really cool to be playing out a lot all the while staying in touch with the builder, and having conversations about what works well and what doesn't, trying new things, etc. Maybe he could throw me a snare drum or floor tom to try out on a gig...not to keep, but to see how it does in real-world circumstances. If I really liked what I was hearing, maybe we could work out a deal for me to pay him at cost to keep it, but now he has info on something that could work to expand his business. I think it would be really cool to have that sort of relationship.

However, I'm not all that in favor of getting an endorsement like that's discussed above in other posts. I think it's sort of cheesy to get an "endorsement" with an instrument that will never leave a bedroom or a basement, where the company only benefits from the initial sale and any sort of relationship is non-existent.
Agree with all of that. Sadly with the youtube generation, free stuff is being given to bedroom players who have lots of subscribers so it gets a good review (not just drum stuff) but that opens up another argument!

I used to get my mates ex-endorsee kits when he'd grown tired of them. He was endorsed by a company called Richmo. The guy who built them designed the Premier Resonator. I still own one of these kits. I remember he used to get some weird and wonderful setups and snares to try. He didn't get the kits for free but got them at a heavily discounted price.

That was a cool time because he was endorsed by Meinl and Attack heads which weren't easy to get hold of in the UK before the internet took over.
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Old 01-24-2019, 07:11 PM
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Default Re: How to get endorced by a simble company's?

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Originally Posted by PorkPieGuy View Post
I also got an offer as an endorser from a small drum company that's based an hour from my home. While I do like these drums, they are really expensive and I simply don't need them. But you know what? If I had the money, I'd say why not? I think it would be really cool to have a voice in the R&D in a small company. It would be really cool to be playing out a lot all the while staying in touch with the builder, and having conversations about what works well and what doesn't, trying new things, etc. Maybe he could throw me a snare drum or floor tom to try out on a gig...not to keep, but to see how it does in real-world circumstances. If I really liked what I was hearing, maybe we could work out a deal for me to pay him at cost to keep it, but now he has info on something that could work to expand his business. I think it would be really cool to have that sort of relationship.
I've had one endorsement deal my whole life and it happened basically kinda like this. I bought a product from this company and liked it. I just sent in an email to the company, who turned out was just a 1 man operation, just saying how I had never heard of the company and I had used his product and thought it was great.

Anyway long story short, we emailed and talked on the phone a couple times and eventually he offered me an endorsement deal. No free stuff, but it would basically involved being able to buy at cost or like you said me being sent stuff to try out that he was working on or prototyping and I could either buy it at cost and keep it or send it back. My part would be to give him feedback (that he could use for his website or materials) and/or if I saw people asking questions on forums going on there to talk about the stuff.
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Old 01-24-2019, 07:14 PM
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Default Re: How to get endorced by a simble company's?

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I'm still waiting for your return email. I really like GooRoo drums.
I refer you to our Australian partners - RooGoo ;)
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Old 01-24-2019, 07:18 PM
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Default Re: How to get endorced by a simble company's?

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I refer you to our Australian partners - RooGoo ;)
Is that like a special drum where the plies are glued together from Kangaroo glue or something that gives it magical properties? ;)
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Old 01-24-2019, 07:30 PM
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Default Re: How to get endorced by a simble company's?

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Originally Posted by alparrott View Post
No, none of these guys were going to be long-term endorsers of these brands. Few if any of them had probably even played the cymbals before "endorsing" them. It was a straight-up sales gimmick playing on the desire of the young/new drummer to "have an endorsement" - even though, as Bermuda would point out, the drummer endorses the product and not the other way around.

I may never be on the artist roster of any of the brands I play, but I do endorse them.
Hahaha! I'll take it one step farther and say that I endorse cymbals. And drums. And heads. And sticks too. I enforce the usage of anything that allows me to drum and enjoy myself. I certainly do not need some company to reinforce my enjoyment.
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Old 01-24-2019, 09:40 PM
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Default Re: How to get endorced by a simble company's?

I'll chime in here to represent the other side of the line.

Last year I signed onto an endorsement deal with Bosphorus Cymbals and became one of their 'artists'. This was something I had been wanting for a long time, with a company I have held in high regard my entire playing career.

I genuinely love the cymbals and I have been seeking a relationship with them for a long time. I was rejected in 2016, and tried again two years later. Over that time, my music, playing profile, and YouTube channel had grown enough to warrant a successful response.

After signing on with them, they invited me down to the London Drum Show to meet the team, and I had a nice long chat to get to know everyone, try some of their new lines, and generally hang out.

At no point has this been anything other than a simple two-way endorsement deal. I keep using their cymbals publicly (and exclusively - fine by me!) and they raise my profile and give me a hefty discount on what are some very expensive cymbals. There's no "free stuff", there's no inflated sense of entitlement (I had to work my ass off to even get a reply), there's no sales pitch or corporate bull.

Maybe this is the case with some drummers. For me, I always loved the cymbals, and now I get some formal recognition (and a juicy discount!) from that company. Job done, as far as I'm concerned.
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Old 01-24-2019, 09:42 PM
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Default Re: How to get endorced by a simble company's?

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I'll chime in here to represent the other side of the line.
Thank you, this is what I was looking for when I started this thread...
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Old 01-27-2019, 11:44 PM
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Default Re: How to get endorced by a simble company's?

I have two Artist Endorsements. Scymtek Cymbals & The London Drumstick Company. Have a great relationship with both & am very happy :)
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Old 02-01-2019, 03:02 PM
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Default Re: How to get endorced by a simble company's?

I don't have to tell you all that social media has changed the game so much. Now its not just so much that you are a known artist/drummer or touring with one - it can also be simply a matter of how influential you are to others on social media. In fact, if you are an Instagram/YouTube drummer wearing a sexy skirt playing covers or you're a good looking online drum teacher - you got a shot at endorsing a whole host of products, not just limited to the drum industry. Hell, the whole "influencer" industry has overtaken traditional marketing vehicles (tv, radio, etc).

One real life implication of this is that you can routinely see one of Gretsch's main drum set endorsers (full endorser - wherever he goes Gretsch has a kit waiting there for him) on Instagram using snare drums from other (even rival) companies. Obviously, Gretsch had to be cool with this--and its probably he is a great ambassador for them, not to mention a legit drummer who has other intangibles that work to his and Gretsch's advantage. Still, one wonders if this sort of arrangement could have happened years ago before social media. (For the record, this is not a knock on this drummer.)

A more cynical implication is that you will see ripped dudes or cute girls playing drums who are are getting free cymbals from companies like Zildjian and doing online adds for Yamaha!? This most certainly didn't happen on a large scale prior to social media. And its important to point out that some of these people are more remarkable for their looks and/or production quality of their videos than they are for their skill as a musician.

By the way, on the surface I don't think I have too much of a problem with it because these individuals should get what they can. Its on the company's shoulders to decide if the value of endorsing someone outweighs potential negatives, if any.

As a consumer of both social media and drum products - I think you have to make a determination on what is valuable to you. Will you play Tama drums because some sexy girl is playing them? I won't unless she comes with the kit and is only around when I want to play. (Very much kidding.) My real answer is no - I will play Tama drums if I like the way they feel and sound. That's just me but who am I to judge how others are influenced or not?

The one thing that we all should not lose focus on as a drumming community is that the lifeblood of this instrument--and the "primal" reason why we play drums is to ultimately make music. The worst thing that could happen to the drum (or any industry) is that it devolves into a proxy by which physically attractive people become our role models and influence our real world decisions. That goes beyond clever marketing. And I think there is a movie that sort of touches on this but at the end result of this. Its called Idiocracy.

Any thoughts?

Last edited by Hockeylifer; 02-01-2019 at 03:27 PM.
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Old 02-01-2019, 03:48 PM
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Default Re: How to get endorced by a simble company's?

I do not blame drum/cymbal/etc companies for endorsing/sponsoring these hot (popular in terms of views/subs/etc and I guess in looks as well) YouTube musicians. I think I remember a marketing guy say one time that by doing the YouTube thing they get a ton more eyeballs on their product than they would taking out ad campaigns and it ends up costing a fraction of the price.

I would even suspect that the way music is now, YouTube Girl/Guy probably actually gets more people seeing their gear than Famous Musician Girl/Guy. Is Famous Musician Girl/Guy a better player than YouTube Girl/Guy? Well that would probably depend on which person you are talking about but there are plenty of musicians that aren't the best players out there but happen to be in popular bands.

Does seeing some girl in a short shorts or some shirtless guy on You Tube playing Brand X influence someone to buy them? I don't know, maybe. On the other hand does seeing some girl in short shorts some shirtless guy playing Brand X on an ad in Z magazine influence someone to buy them?

I would suspect if the companies didn't get any kind of return out of all of this, they wouldn't do it.

Honestly, what annoys me is the trend of seems to basically be the ladder climbing endorsements. I think we should just basically say what it is, it is sponsorships at this point. It used to be that someone just played Brand A and they liked it, and then they got to the level where they were popular enough and then got an endorsement from Brand A. Now players play Brand A, then get to some kind of level end up getting a basic fake endorsement from Brand Z. After a while they get popular enough they "upgrade" to Brand X, and maybe eventually make it back to Brand A.
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Old 02-01-2019, 05:41 PM
beyondbetrayal beyondbetrayal is offline
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Default Re: How to get endorced by a simble company's?

I know SoulTone was doing that along with a few other smaller boutique cymbal/stick/drum companies... Basically endorse anyone that asks... They will give them a discount off of a SUPER inflated MSRP which means the company is still making money, and it was a good marketing strategy at the time. (it's kind of out in the open now)

It locks them in to one company. They brag to all their friends and all their friends start trying. They promote them on social media etc.

I usually avoid looking at the "endorsement" posts for this reason because it doesn't mean much and I hate bursting peoples bubble if it makes them feel good. If a younger drummer is asking advice though I'd warn them that they will probibly say yes, but they will still be paying for the equipment and locked in.

So many people send emails out to every company trying to get some sort of recognition from an endorsement. The community is very small and the AR dudes all know each other. It's a quick way to get blackballed. Those small companies will still say yes and you might even ruin your chances down the road. Don't do that. Heck if your under 25 I recommend NOT getting endorsements and trying every product out there.

For me, once my bands had several CD's, and I had over a million YouTube views etc I already knew what I wanted to play. I have been using Sabian for 20+ years, Axis pedals for 15 years. Los Cabos sticks for as long as I can remember too. It made for an easy choice on who to ask. Plus the reps can see photos and history in your EPK and see that you love their products. I have pictures of me playing 20 years ago on kits with Sabian"SIMBLES" LOL!

One thing to check. Look at the artist list. Do you recognize any of the artists? If not that's a red flag. Especially when there is a TON of artists. Usually the large companies don't hand out endorsements willy nilly. It's the new small ones that use it as a marketing technique. If your band is playing small local gigs with next to no exposure, think to yourself WHY they would give you an endorsement deal. Did you really just BLOW their minds? Are you the next big thing? If it seems to good to be true it is.

If you are touring constantly, have a huge online following, get to play on TV late night shows, or your music is featured internationally chances are you will have more of the exposure they are looking for. Even having a huge Instagram/YouTube following is a start.

At the end of the day, if you never played company X cymbals, why the heck would you take an endorsement deal and have to buy an entire set of cymbals to say you're endorsed... Look at your kit, if that's not the equipment you would want to endorse that's your the first issue.

And yes, YouTube / Insta is a great marketing tool that EVERY company relies on. That's where they post their own videos and releases too. I watch drumming videos all day. And when I want to buy a new drum/cymbal where do I look to hear it online? Let me check out some reviews, let me check out some videos. I don't listen to what they say as much as use my ears on the products, but you get what I am saying.

Lastly, companies offering REAL endorsements don't want a guy looking for a deal, the discount is basically payment for you working your butt off to promote them and send people their way. The funny thing is now that I endorse the companies I do, I break way less stuff and buy less than I ever have. I barely break sticks anymore even and have boxes downstairs. And how many pedals does a dude need.
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