Got any jazz drumming tips?

You need to listen and listen and then listen some more. Here are 3 CDs that you must own (among many others, these just come to mind first):

Chick Corea - Now He Sings, Now He Sobs (Roy Haynes on drums)
John Coltrane - My Favorite Things (Elvin Jones on drums)
Art Pepper - Art Pepper + Eleven (Mel Lewis on drums)

Listen to them over and over and over..........
 
Chick Corea - Now He Sings, Now He Sobs (Roy Haynes on drums)
John Coltrane - My Favorite Things (Elvin Jones on drums)
Art Pepper - Art Pepper + Eleven (Mel Lewis on drums)

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Great choices but I would add, Brubecks, Take Five Live and Miles Davis, Bitches Brew. If this starts, it would be one long list.
 
Miles Davis Kind of Blue


There are some records that you will find very hard to listen, I mean, free jazz is kinda hard to listen at a first glance.
 
Thats such a debatable statement. There are plenty of guys playing some great stuff using matched grip.

I agree, but it does seem that most of the more fluid jazz drummers use a traditional grip. Minnimann--spelling?--is fast and great, but hit's his rims all the time, hit's sticks together and breaks sticks alot. Cobham a great drummer, but his dynamics just don't sound even, consistent. I could go on.

It doesn't make sense, but it does seem to be the reality.Nuture or nature?
 
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I agree, but it does seem that most of the more fluid jazz drummers use a traditional grip. Minnimann--spelling?--is fast and great, but hit's his rims all the time, hit's sticks together and breaks sticks alot. Cobham a great drummer, but his dynamics just don't sound even consistent. I could go on.

It doesn't make sense, but it does seem to be the reality.Nuture or nature?

No, it doesn't make sense, and I know many trad grip jazz drummers with very little fluidity, ease etc. It's just an opinion you have formed, that's all....

By, the way, Bill Stewart, ever heard of him? that should pretty much close the subject for now.....

Casper
 
No, it doesn't make sense, and I know many trad grip jazz drummers with very little fluidity, ease etc. It's just an opinion you have formed, that's all....

By, the way, Bill Stewart, ever heard of him? that should pretty much close the subject for now.....

Casper

Casper,

Ouch! Again I agree. I've heard a lot of traditional grip jazz drummers that aren't fluid. I was thinking of a certain tier of drummers where that's not an issue. Also for matched gip I said most. I didn't say all.
 
I agree, but it does seem that most of the more fluid jazz drummers use a traditional grip. Minnimann--spelling?--is fast and great, but hit's his rims all the time, hit's sticks together and breaks sticks alot. Cobham a great drummer, but his dynamics just don't sound even, consistent. I could go on.

It doesn't make sense, but it does seem to be the reality.Nuture or nature?

Well first listen to Eric Harland play and then come back and talk to me about his lack of fluidity. Youre talking fusion drummers with Cobham and Minniman anyways.
 
Well first listen to Eric Harland play and then come back and talk to me about his lack of fluidity. Youre talking fusion drummers with Cobham and Minniman anyways.

I'm generally not a trad grip player, but I stick to the "most". Make a list. Traditional on one side and matched on the other and see which side of the list is longer. As said by Casper, it's my opinion and I'm sticking to it! lol

I do place fusion in the jazz genre.
 
Someones else likes Pepper too, Yaaaaay!! Have you heard Landscape? with Billy Higgins on drums. Landmark stuff!!

Art Pepper was an amazing musician. A giant. As good as anybody, including Charlie Parker. What a shame that he's almost forgotten, at least among non-musicians.
 
Well first listen to Eric Harland play and then come back and talk to me about his lack of fluidity. Youre talking fusion drummers with Cobham and Minniman anyways.

Zakir Hussain, who has played with Harland ( I think they've recorded together too ) thinks he is the baddest drum kit player he's ever played with. And he has played with a few great ones..Harland IS incredible!


Here he is with Charles LLoyd, with Bob Hurst's incredible solo follow by Eric's ....:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pmMT3HTtjM
 
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I don't mind the idea of choosing a jazz drummer (or drummers) to be musical role models. However, Ithe players mentioned are pretty flash!

I'm wondering about perhaps a more manageable role model. Is there such a thing as the jazz equivalent to Ringo or Charlie Watts? You know ... jazz drummers who play more simply than most but who display good taste and syle?
 
There are some records that you will find very hard to listen, I mean, free jazz is kinda hard to listen at a first glance.



I agree.

Unless you start in a live setting with really great players. I have a lot of friends who are into it after stumbling upon a live show here and there in NYC/Chicago.


Listen to as much music as you can. If you like an artist (not just drummer) - go find 10 more albums with that guy on it - and keep doing that. Keep branching out and discovering new players, new styles of play, etc. (those 60's Blue Note albums are a great place to get to - Wayne Shorter, Tony Williams, Grant Green, Joe Henderson, Horace Silver, Jazz Messengers, etc etc etc). Listen to what's going on in the music, and listen to what each player is providing the moment. What kind of bass line is going on? What's the drummer giving the group? Pianist? What's the instrumentation? Full rhythm section? If not, listen to how the drummer provides the time as opposed to another recording w/different instrumentation. Is the bassist providing a walking line or something more broken up? how's the drummer augmenting this?

play along to those albums. Play along to every single one. Every song. Don't skip the ballads - get into the ballads! Try playing like the drummer. Try doing your own thing. (these last two items will take a while to get to - I'm getting ahead of myself...let's backtrack)

Practice practice practice! I started my jazz excursions with Jim Chapin's book and eventually found my way to the Alan Dawson stuff using Syncopation and Stick Control (someone else mentioned Ramsay's book - probably the best thing you could pick up in terms of books) and still working on the first exercises.

ALWAYS WORK ON YOUR FUNDAMENTALS. There's a reason Tim Duncan is one of the greatest power forward/centers of all time (he is) - and it's his ridiculous fundamentals he developed. When I studied with Nasheet Waits (8-9 years ago), he said "great hands. no fundamentals to know what to do with them" - and demonstrated by playing very basic jazz things at ridiculous tempos and they sounded so damned good - I thought "Wow, I have so much to work on" and it was the stuff I always thumbed my nose at or avoided: FUNDAMENTALS. Feather that bass drum '4 on the floor' - get those hats crackin' - 2 & 4 and all 4 - try fast try slow - try different dynamics. Make sure the ride has good articulation (controlled by the pressure of the fingers/grip). Get those basics going and get them *sounding good*. I'll hear someone "play jazz" and think "Nope! Not happenin'!" Get those basics sounding good and then the comping will come a little more naturally. And everything will be happening on a solid foundation that you can choose to stick with or move away from - but it's always there. After Nasheet told me that line, I remember practicing the basics for 10 hours a day for months and months straight - ignored everything else and just did basics. He told me he worked on that first page of Syncopation for years - just fundamentals - and that floored me. Here he is doing all sorts of crazy stuff and it came from working on the simplest stuff... I remember seeing Yoron Israel play at this camp a few years before the Nasheet stuff and seeing him playing all this crazy stuff and keeping the feathering going the whole time except to bust out some bombs on the bass drum here and there and going back to feathering without missing a beat - and being thoroughly impressed - but didn't [at the time] equate that into something I needed to work towards...not sure why...

I listened to an old All-State jazz CD a while back (ah nostalgia!) and thinking "My gawd, I sound so thin...so just-barely-getting-by" and the other drummer (they take two every year) was leaps and bounds ahead of me (Connor Elmes - went to NEC and studied with Bob Moses - great player). That was my wake-up call, like "Okay, there's more to this jazz thing and I need to learn it now!" That summer (17 years old) was when I started really hitting the books. Also when I was finally introduced to Elvin Jones via Robert Kaufman (thanks Bob!)


Listen.
Practice.
Play.
 
Zakir Hussain, who has played with Harland ( I think they've recorded together too ) thinks he is the baddest drum kit player he's ever played with. And he has played with a few great ones..Harland IS incredible!


Here he is with Charles LLoyd, with Bob Hurst's incredible solo follow by Eric's ....:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pmMT3HTtjM

Oh yeah man, check out Sangam, the Charles Lloyd record. Its just Lloyd, Harland, and Zakir. Sooooo good.
 
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