Do 3/4 and 6/8 ‘flow’ better for you?

AndeeT

Senior Member
Better than 4/4 I mean.

I was always under be impression that 4/4 was the standard-modern Western pop music rhythmic structure. And I kind of assumed it was this way because it was the most danceable, or had a nicer flow/feel to it.

It’s certainly what the majority of my bands songs are in and the majority of songs that I listen to. But I’m wondering if 3/4, even if on paper looks assymetrical, flows and feels better? I listen to and play mostly rock/metal so maybe this won’t be the case for anyone listening to classical.

...recently I have been focusing on my sight reading and I find 16th note syncopations and phrases beginning on ‘+’ are tough in 4/4. In 3/4 (and even more so, in 6/8) these phrases seem to flow more naturally and surprisingly, I can even read better in these time signatures! Both for the syncopated 16ths and just in general reading.

It’s almost as if the music ‘breathes’ naturally in these meters, and feels less forced. 4/4 is beginning to feel very robotic to me now when reading. Even though that’s 90% of what I am exposed to?! Reading 3/4 is more akin to actually reading a novel, it seems to flow from sentence to sentence, from beat to beat.

I was even trying to waltz a little in the kitchen to ‘Once upon a dream’ (of Sleeping Beauty/Tchaikovsky fame) and it feels very natural for my body to sway from side to side.

Do others feel this way about 3/4 or 6/8? I know the formal dances revolve around these meters so maybe it’s a documented thing? But how about reading being easier in the meters?

I like talking about this as it’s really strongly connected to how rhythm can make you ‘feel’. We had another thread on that a few months back and I wasn’t totally convinced but now I am beginning to realise that’s because i listen to mostly rock in 4/4. Think I need to give the waltzes some lovvin’ !
 
Better than 4/4 I mean.

I was always under be impression that 4/4 was the standard-modern Western pop music rhythmic structure. And I kind of assumed it was this way because it was the most danceable, or had a nicer flow/feel to it.

It’s certainly what the majority of my bands songs are in and the majority of songs that I listen to. But I’m wondering if 3/4, even if on paper looks assymetrical, flows and feels better? I listen to and play mostly rock/metal so maybe this won’t be the case for anyone listening to classical.

...recently I have been focusing on my sight reading and I find 16th note syncopations and phrases beginning on ‘+’ are tough in 4/4. In 3/4 (and even more so, in 6/8) these phrases seem to flow more naturally and surprisingly, I can even read better in these time signatures! Both for the syncopated 16ths and just in general reading.

It’s almost as if the music ‘breathes’ naturally in these meters, and feels less forced. 4/4 is beginning to feel very robotic to me now when reading. Even though that’s 90% of what I am exposed to?! Reading 3/4 is more akin to actually reading a novel, it seems to flow from sentence to sentence, from beat to beat.

I was even trying to waltz a little in the kitchen to ‘Once upon a dream’ (of Sleeping Beauty/Tchaikovsky fame) and it feels very natural for my body to sway from side to side.

Do others feel this way about 3/4 or 6/8? I know the formal dances revolve around these meters so maybe it’s a documented thing? But how about reading being easier in the meters?

I like talking about this as it’s really strongly connected to how rhythm can make you ‘feel’. We had another thread on that a few months back and I wasn’t totally convinced but now I am beginning to realise that’s because i listen to mostly rock in 4/4. Think I need to give the waltzes some lovvin’ !


I know what you're saying.

My last band was pretty much 90% 3/4 or 6/8 time signatures and I did that for years so became very accustomed to them.

Those variants have a lovely nice swing to them plus there feels to be more space to add slight nuenses (ghost notes..etc) where 4/4 doesn't allow at times, especially when extra rigid. I naturally have a bouncey feel so it works well for me.

Even when I'm at the kit and just messing around I'll mostly play a 3/4 beat as opposed to 4/4......Funny enough my latest bands new single is pretty much 3/4 throughout!!!

Seeing a pattern here.
 
Yes, definitely. 3/4 and 6/8 tend to turn into each other, and have a natural 3:2 polyrhythm built into them that makes them flow nicely, and a lot of fun to play on. A lot of jazz drummers, me included, tend to play stuff in 3/4 even when playing in 4.
 
Thanks for commenting guys. I guess there must be some magic in those meters.

But I think you two have hit it on the read there;

It's interesting what you said Juniper about the rigidity of 4/4. I guess I tend to play very to 'the grid' as you say, especially with 16th's in 4/4. But in 3/4 and 6/8 I have no idea why, but I feel I can be a bit looser with my timing there, even in the same subdivisions.

And Todd; I hadn't even considered the polyrhythm thing but it makes total sense. The 3:2 has a lovely lope to it; something you don't find with the polyrhythms based around 4.

I feel like I have been missing out, only playing and listening in 4/4 for so long.

Any listening recommendations for bands/albums with lots of 3/4 / 6/8?
 
A lot of blues, especially shuffles, are in divisions of 3.

A Perfect Circle's first album is mostly in threes and sixes.
 
Cheers AlParrott,

I have just downloaded the album you mentioned. I am liking it.

It’s really weird for me, as my Art teacher in school used to play A Perfect Circle in class, probably 15 years ago (I always remember the album artwork with the yellow slug on the eyebrow). As a young teenager I was very narrow-minded and wouldn’t open my ears to any music unless it was thrash metal.

I am glad you mentioned that band, as I get to try something I made myself miss out on.


And you mention blues and shuffles, so are we talking about triplets (could be in any time signature) ? I wonder if the ‘feeling of 3’ thing works both across multiple beats (as in a bar of 3/4), as it does in a ‘within a beat’ situation (as with triplets/shuffles).

I guess in a way it does, as I remember Tommy Igoe talking about the relaxed way that 8th note triplets feel.

With 16th note triplets though the ‘feel’ is lost if you phrase them as sextuplets. So maybe it also has to do with accenting and phrasing as well as what we discussed before.
 
I love playing in 6/8. Some of the songs we play at church are 6/8. Peace and goodwill.
 
Cheers AlParrott,

I have just downloaded the album you mentioned. I am liking it.

It’s really weird for me, as my Art teacher in school used to play A Perfect Circle in class, probably 15 years ago (I always remember the album artwork with the yellow slug on the eyebrow). As a young teenager I was very narrow-minded and wouldn’t open my ears to any music unless it was thrash metal.

I am glad you mentioned that band, as I get to try something I made myself miss out on.


And you mention blues and shuffles, so are we talking about triplets (could be in any time signature) ? I wonder if the ‘feeling of 3’ thing works both across multiple beats (as in a bar of 3/4), as it does in a ‘within a beat’ situation (as with triplets/shuffles).

I guess in a way it does, as I remember Tommy Igoe talking about the relaxed way that 8th note triplets feel.

With 16th note triplets though the ‘feel’ is lost if you phrase them as sextuplets. So maybe it also has to do with accenting and phrasing as well as what we discussed before.

A blues shuffle can be notated either as triplets over 4/4 or eighth notes in a 12/8 or 6/8 feel. It depends if you are focusing on the bass drum pulse (typically 4 on the floor) or the shuffle feel in the hands. I prefer to think in 12/8 as it allows me to intuitively group notes in multiples of threes without much thinking.

Another type of music I listen to a LOT at home is mariachi, which includes a lot of waltzes. And I end up playing a lot of stuff in 3/4 and 6/8 at church - 3/4 tends to be hymns while 6/8 is more modern worship music.

Whereas time signatures in 4 feel to me like a pulse, 3s (and multiples) feel like a swing or a lilt. It always feels lyrical and airy, and I strive to play that music with that character - even when it's hard rock or a stanky shuffle.
 
I think playing a ton a lot of songs in 6/8 can seem more repetitive than their 4/4 counterparts to my ears.

However, 6/8 is a real treat to play. I love all of the ghost notes in between if the song calls for them.
 
Afro-Cuban 6/8 and a jazz waltz with an Elvin Jones interpretation are the two major things for me for what we're talking about here. I've written a whole lot of practice materials for them at each of those links. I also wrote a couple of things for working on it in a shuffle context.

When you've really internalized this hemiola compound pulse thing, 4/4 almost becomes an odd meter-- to fit a hemiola rhythm into 4 you have to cut one cycle short, which gives you the lopsided New Orleans tresillo bass drum rhythm, or the familiar bossa snare drum rhythm everyone uses.
 
Cheers everyone, I am learning a lot here!

Thanks AlParrott; I had no idea that you could notate the shuffle in 12/8. Funnily enough, when I googled shuffle in 12/8 it was some of Toddbishops pages that were coming up! And I will check out the mariachi stuff

....so much stuff here to to learn about rhythm, from many different cultures. Makes me realise that if you only listen to Anglo-Western music you miss out on a lot of interesting rhythm (and I am sure other things).

Cheers Todd for sharing your exercises. I think your site has a lifetimes worth of material for me to get through!
 
The Black Rose by Thin Lizzy. A great Irish rock tune in 6/8. There's a small 4/4 break down part, but the majority of it is 6/8. Also, Emerald by Thin Lizzy. Another great Irish rock tune in 6/8.
 
Thank you! Those are ace.

I only ever listened to whiskey in the jar and the boys are back in town. Clearly I have been missing out. Such an amazing voice and the guitar harmonies are perfect.
 
Sorry for the Necro-thread but I kind of expanded my experience on this topic and wanted to share.

I recently wanted to improve my reading and also take a look at concert snare drumming so I found a few pieces by Delecluse.

Quite a few pieces are in 6/8. The weird thing is, just looking at the patterns of the notes on the page, it’s more satisfying and has that flow to it visually, without even hearing or playing it.

Interesting to me how visual and auditory stimuli affect me in similar ways. Maybe it’s a good thing, otherwise reading music would be much harder!
 
A 6/8 is nothing more than a slow 4/4 but the "slow" feeling of it compared to the same in 4/4 is what makes it seem easier and more natural to play... There really is more space to mess with and everyone still hits the same 1.
 
I don't have a preference really, but I find the zone where 3/4 crosses over into 4/4 really interesting. Like a 3:2 clave pattern over a 4/4 rhythm, or transitioning into a 6/8 shuffle from a straight shuffle, or playing syncopated offbeat triplets against a driving 4/4 beat etc.
 
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Lets just split the difference and play everything in 7/8.
 
This sounds like a simple preference for some people.

They "feel better" when the music they play or listen to, is evenly divisible by 3.

I can dig it.

He can dig it. She can dig it. They can dig it too :)
 
I’ve always felt that the reason for any time sig to feel worse or better was within me and not in the meter.
 
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