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  #1  
Old 04-16-2018, 06:06 PM
Jml Jml is offline
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Default Is Yamaha Stage Custom an upgrade over Sonor Safari?

Biggest differences I see - size of tom (12" vs 10") and bass drum (18' vs 16") and birch construction vs poplar. Both sound good. Yamaha 3 piece shell pack is going for $474, but I would get some $ by trading in my Sonor for the Yammy. So the question is - is it worth it? Kit will be used for practice and light gigging.
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Old 04-16-2018, 07:40 PM
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Default Re: Is Yamaha Stage Custom an upgrade over Sonor Safari?

A vote for Stage Customs, mainly because a 16" bass drum doesn't make an actual bass drum tone IMO. If the kicks are the same size, I'd say it was a lateral move.
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Old 04-17-2018, 02:54 AM
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Default Re: Is Yamaha Stage Custom an upgrade over Sonor Safari?

Stage Custom x 10

I like Sonor, BUT Yamaha's quality is ALWAYS top notch, and Birch is a better wood.
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Old 04-17-2018, 02:57 AM
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Default Pound for pound...

Is Mapex better than Yamaha???
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Old 04-17-2018, 03:06 AM
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Default Re: Is Yamaha Stage Custom an upgrade over Sonor Safari?

If you want it to be it is.
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Old 04-17-2018, 03:43 AM
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I guess you mean they're equal.

'Aight!
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Old 04-17-2018, 03:48 AM
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Default Re: Is Yamaha Stage Custom an upgrade over Sonor Safari?

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Originally Posted by Jml View Post
Biggest differences I see - size of tom (12" vs 10") and bass drum (18' vs 16") and birch construction vs poplar. Both sound good. Yamaha 3 piece shell pack is going for $474, but I would get some $ by trading in my Sonor for the Yammy. So the question is - is it worth it? Kit will be used for practice and light gigging.

Which sizes do you like better?

I'd take the Stage Custom bop kit over the Safari any day.
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Old 04-17-2018, 04:10 AM
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Default Re: Is Yamaha Stage Custom an upgrade over Sonor Safari?

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Which sizes do you like better?

I'd take the Stage Custom bop kit over the Safari any day.
I think the larger sizes would be more versatile and better for rock/louder music. My question is - would I notice a worthwhile difference in the sound? Would the Yamahas be good for jazz?
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Old 04-17-2018, 05:57 AM
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Default Re: Is Yamaha Stage Custom an upgrade over Sonor Safari?

No contest, 12-14-18 are way more versatile sizes for any music, including jazz, than 10-13?-16.
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Old 04-17-2018, 06:02 AM
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I want 14, 16 and 18.

Really, a 12 too.
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Old 04-17-2018, 06:56 AM
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Default Re: Is Yamaha Stage Custom an upgrade over Sonor Safari?

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Originally Posted by Jml View Post
I think the larger sizes would be more versatile and better for rock/louder music. My question is - would I notice a worthwhile difference in the sound? Would the Yamahas be good for jazz?
The Yamaha is slightly larger than what you have. I would take that over the Safari. I wouldn't say either of them is geared towards rock/louder music which is what you're asking.
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Old 04-17-2018, 04:49 PM
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Default Re: Is Yamaha Stage Custom an upgrade over Sonor Safari?

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The Yamaha is slightly larger than what you have. I would take that over the Safari. I wouldn't say either of them is geared towards rock/louder music which is what you're asking.
I probably wouldn't use them so much for rock. Play mostly funk/jazz kind of stuff. Since I haven't gigged with it yet, just wondering if the bass drum on the Safari would be loud enough for small crowds. Has anyone had or used both to give an opinion on the differences sound-wise?
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  #13  
Old 04-17-2018, 05:54 PM
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Default Remember - I'm a NOOB

I can't see how different kits can be specific to certain genres of music. I mean - basically, isn't a drum a drum? Would a "rock kit" be unable to do a jazz gig? And a "jazz kit" - would that fail to play along with rock music? I won't even get into "country kits" or "church kits."

Can't a nice set of drums play anything? Isn't the player the one who determines the style?
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Old 04-17-2018, 06:47 PM
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Default Re: Is Yamaha Stage Custom an upgrade over Sonor Safari?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jml View Post
Biggest differences I see - size of tom (12" vs 10") and bass drum (18' vs 16") and birch construction vs poplar. Both sound good. Yamaha 3 piece shell pack is going for $474, but I would get some $ by trading in my Sonor for the Yammy. So the question is - is it worth it? Kit will be used for practice and light gigging.
I think if youre gonna get money for trading, and you want to do it, then its a win-win. Its true slightly bigger would better, but too me, I think 18 bass drums are too small for anything. But if it works, and you get money, Id trade.
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Old 04-17-2018, 06:48 PM
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Default Re: Remember - I'm a NOOB

Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterBlaster View Post
I can't see how different kits can be specific to certain genres of music. I mean - basically, isn't a drum a drum? Would a "rock kit" be unable to do a jazz gig? And a "jazz kit" - would that fail to play along with rock music? I won't even get into "country kits" or "church kits."

Can't a nice set of drums play anything? Isn't the player the one who determines the style?
You are correct. If you cant play, having every drum size on the planet wont help you.
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  #16  
Old 04-17-2018, 06:52 PM
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So, it's just kinda a myth thing?

Cool.
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  #17  
Old 04-18-2018, 03:58 AM
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Default Re: Is Yamaha Stage Custom an upgrade over Sonor Safari?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterBlaster View Post
So, it's just kinda a myth thing?

Cool.

Generally:

Big gigs - big drums

Small gigs - small drums

Normally larger, thicker shelled drums project more.
A big exception is if you're mic'd up. Then pretty much anything goes.
I saw a guy using a mic'd up 16" bass drum at a fairly large outdoor concert.
If you didn't look at the drums, you'd never know it.
PA's and EQ's can work wonders.
You can really use any drum set for anything. Sometimes you'd have to find workarounds though.

About the Stage Custom bop kits. I've had a couple of them.
They tune up nicely in the middle and upper ranges, and the stock heads they come with sound pretty decent.

And Bo - I think he meant he'd save some money by trading in, not get some money, even though he phrased it differently.
I suppose it's possible, but hard for me to imagine trading a Safari kit for a SC bop kit and getting cash on top of it.
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  #18  
Old 04-18-2018, 04:38 AM
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Default Re: Is Yamaha Stage Custom an upgrade over Sonor Safari?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wildbill View Post
Generally:

Big gigs - big drums

Small gigs - small drums

Normally larger, thicker shelled drums project more.
A big exception is if you're mic'd up. Then pretty much anything goes.
I saw a guy using a mic'd up 16" bass drum at a fairly large outdoor concert.
If you didn't look at the drums, you'd never know it.
PA's and EQ's can work wonders.
You can really use any drum set for anything. Sometimes you'd have to find workarounds though.

About the Stage Custom bop kits. I've had a couple of them.
They tune up nicely in the middle and upper ranges, and the stock heads they come with sound pretty decent.

And Bo - I think he meant he'd save some money by trading in, not get some money, even though he phrased it differently.
I suppose it's possible, but hard for me to imagine trading a Safari kit for a SC bop kit and getting cash on top of it.
Yeah, I meant trading in the Sonor for some $ towards the Yamaha. The Safari goes for $399 new. Id hope I could get $200 or so for it. Still in great condition with original heads. Would only leave $270 or so to pay for the SC.

Definitely overthinking this. Wonder HOW MUCH of a difference the 18 bass drum would make instead of the 16. Id imagine the rack toms (12 v 10) wouldnt be that much of a difference. And the birch, while better than poplar, probably wont make a huge difference in sound either. So the question is, do I stick with the 16 bass drum, because if not loud enough, the 18 might not be enough either??? Miked up, theyd probably both sound the same. So maybe just keep the status quo for now and save up eventually for a maple kit with 20 inch bass drum in the future?
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  #19  
Old 04-18-2018, 04:41 AM
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16" is too small, no matter wut.
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  #20  
Old 04-18-2018, 04:41 AM
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Default Re: Is Yamaha Stage Custom an upgrade over Sonor Safari?

Maybe just a different head for the batter side of the bass drum to get some more sound out of it if necessary....
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  #21  
Old 04-18-2018, 01:43 PM
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Default Re: Is Yamaha Stage Custom an upgrade over Sonor Safari?

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Originally Posted by Jml View Post
.....So the question is, do I stick with the 16” bass drum, because if not loud enough, the 18” might not be enough either??? Miked up, they’d probably both sound the same. So maybe just keep the status quo for now and save up eventually for a maple kit with 20” inch bass drum in the future?

For just a few bucks more than the 18, you could get the 5 piece SC that comes with a 20" bass drum.
Even if you only play a 4 piece, the 20" is a much better all arounder than an 18.
If you want maple though, that's going to up the cost more.

At least you've got a set you can use now while you're deciding.
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  #22  
Old 04-18-2018, 04:16 PM
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Default Re: Is Yamaha Stage Custom an upgrade over Sonor Safari?

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Originally Posted by Jml View Post
Yeah, I meant trading in the Sonor for some $ towards the Yamaha. The Safari goes for $399 new. Id hope I could get $200 or so for it.
If you are trading in at a music store, you will probably get about $100-$150 for those drums (IMO). Even if they are in good condition and sell for $399 new, they will sell those around $250-$275. They will offer about half of what they can sell them for.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterBlaster View Post
16" is too small, no matter wut.
Agreed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wildbill View Post
For just a few bucks more than the 18, you could get the 5 piece SC that comes with a 20" bass drum.
Even if you only play a 4 piece, the 20" is a much better all arounder than an 18.
I'm sorry to repeat myself so much on these boards, but IMO, I think that there is a significant difference between an 18" kick and a 20" kick (as opposed to a 20" and a 22"). There seems to be some sort of threshold here between these two sizes. I'd opt for a 20" every time.

Also, my Tama Rockstars from the early 90's are 9-ply poplar. My Basix birch kit blew them out of the water.

YMMV.
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  #23  
Old 04-18-2018, 04:34 PM
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Default Re: Is Yamaha Stage Custom an upgrade over Sonor Safari?

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Originally Posted by PorkPieGuy View Post

I think that there is a significant difference between an 18" kick and a 20" kick (as opposed to a 20" and a 22"). There seems to be some sort of threshold here between these two sizes. I'd opt for a 20" every time.
I'm with you there Martin..unmiced anyway. I wonder what a 19" kick would sound like. Hmmmm.

AFAIK, a 19" kick hasn't been done. (cue the person who can disprove that)

I'd like to know what the exact diameter is on a bass drum shell, where the transition from (IMO) meh to...OK that works....lies.
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  #24  
Old 04-18-2018, 06:15 PM
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Default Re: Is Yamaha Stage Custom an upgrade over Sonor Safari?

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I'm with you there Martin..unmiced anyway. I wonder what a 19" kick would sound like. Hmmmm.

AFAIK, a 19" kick hasn't been done. (cue the person who can disprove that)

I'd like to know what the exact diameter is on a bass drum shell, where the transition from (IMO) meh to...OK that works....lies.

Since a 20" kick sounds good and an 18" doesn't sound good (to my ears), I'll bet if someone manufactured a 19" kick drum and then hit it one time, a reality-shifting black hole filled with all things mediocre would appear and would yield things like candy corn, six hours of sleep, futons, The Office after Michael Scott left, and Matchbox 20.
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Old 04-18-2018, 06:45 PM
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Default Re: Is Yamaha Stage Custom an upgrade over Sonor Safari?

I'm 100% with you. 20" for me all day every day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PorkPieGuy View Post
I'm sorry to repeat myself so much on these boards, but IMO, I think that there is a significant difference between an 18" kick and a 20" kick (as opposed to a 20" and a 22"). There seems to be some sort of threshold here between these two sizes. I'd opt for a 20" every time.
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Old 04-18-2018, 07:10 PM
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Default Re: Is Yamaha Stage Custom an upgrade over Sonor Safari?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PorkPieGuy View Post
Since a 20" kick sounds good and an 18" doesn't sound good (to my ears), I'll bet if someone manufactured a 19" kick drum and then hit it one time, a reality-shifting black hole filled with all things mediocre would appear and would yield things like candy corn, six hours of sleep, futons, The Office after Michael Scott left, and Matchbox 20.
You, sir, owe me one new keyboard since this comment caused me to spit coffee all over mine a moment ago.

If you're looking for an all-around kick size, 20" is my vote. I've played my SC 20" kick unmiked and tuned up tight for a piano jazz trio gig, and miked and floppy for a loud outdoor rock festival gig, and both times it worked out great.
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Old 04-18-2018, 07:44 PM
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Default Re: Is Yamaha Stage Custom an upgrade over Sonor Safari?

I've gone through about a half dozen kits with 18" bass drums.
They're great fun to play and can sound OK - the bass drum is a bit wimpy unmic'd though.
Sometimes a higher pitched, not as loud sound might be what is required though.
To me, they just have a different feel and sound to them than larger ones.

I'm down to just one 18 now though, the Ludwig Jazzette - not so much because it so much better than the others,
but just because I like it and want to keep one set that size.

I've also got one set with a 20" kick.
If I get anymore kits they will be also have a 20" bass drum.
And if I were ever to start playing gigs again, I'd be using a 20 unless it was a real small venue.
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  #28  
Old 04-18-2018, 08:03 PM
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Default Re: Is Yamaha Stage Custom an upgrade over Sonor Safari?

Sounds like the move from a 16 to an 18 is not worth it. Guess I should save up for a 20. Any recommendations for a portable, affordable (under $1000) drum kit thats NOT poplar wood and has a 20 bass drum? Only ones Ive seen are Gretsch Catalina jazz and PDP Maple/PDP Birch.
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Old 04-18-2018, 08:30 PM
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Default Re: Is Yamaha Stage Custom an upgrade over Sonor Safari?

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You, sir, owe me one new keyboard since this comment caused me to spit coffee all over mine a moment ago.
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Old 04-18-2018, 09:07 PM
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Default Re: Is Yamaha Stage Custom an upgrade over Sonor Safari?

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Originally Posted by Jml View Post
Sounds like the move from a 16 to an 18 is not worth it. Guess I should save up for a 20. Any recommendations for a portable, affordable (under $1000) drum kit thats NOT poplar wood and has a 20 bass drum? Only ones Ive seen are Gretsch Catalina jazz and PDP Maple/PDP Birch.
I would recommend staying with the Stage Custom line. The 5-piece with a 20" kick is $650 most places online.
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  #31  
Old 04-18-2018, 10:05 PM
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Default Re: Is Yamaha Stage Custom an upgrade over Sonor Safari?

It's not an upgrade. It's a different sound and size. That's all.

If they were both the same sizes, the Sonors would be warmer, darker and less boomy than the Yamahas which would also be brighter with more higher frequency ringiness. No comment on the snare. The Sonor snare that comes with the set is a perpetration against anyone's dignity.
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  #32  
Old 04-19-2018, 12:48 AM
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Default Re: Is Yamaha Stage Custom an upgrade over Sonor Safari?

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Originally Posted by WallyY View Post
It's not an upgrade. It's a different sound and size. That's all.

If they were both the same sizes, the Sonors would be warmer, darker and less boomy than the Yamahas which would also be brighter with more higher frequency ringiness. No comment on the snare. The Sonor snare that comes with the set is a perpetration against anyone's dignity.
Yeah I got rid of the Sonor snare a while ago.

Need to get rid of the feeling to always upgrade. Im sure Im not the only one....
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  #33  
Old 04-19-2018, 01:01 AM
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That's a bad thing???

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Old 04-19-2018, 01:51 AM
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That's a bad thing???

Can become quite an expensive hobby. Looking to avoid unnecessary costs.
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  #35  
Old 04-19-2018, 01:54 AM
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My SS starts in Aug and as far as I'm concerned it's found money.

I'm spending it on gear and bud.
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  #36  
Old 04-19-2018, 02:39 AM
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Default Re: Is Yamaha Stage Custom an upgrade over Sonor Safari?

I wonder how many people who diss 16" bass drums actually gigged with one with PA support.

I gigged with a 16" Sonor Safari bass drum for several years, and I got nothing but massive complements on the tone. A decently tuned 16" bass drum, a well placed decent BD mic, and a good PA can create Any bass drum tone. Any.
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Old 04-19-2018, 02:43 AM
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It makes sense to me, but a deep 18" is as small as I'd ever go.
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Old 04-19-2018, 02:50 AM
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Default Re: Is Yamaha Stage Custom an upgrade over Sonor Safari?

If youre talking about spending $1,000, then I recommend this...

https://www.drumcenternh.com/gretsch...ano-black.html

Beautiful piano black laquer birch drums. Ive seen these in person and theyll knock your socks off soundwise.
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Old 04-19-2018, 03:54 AM
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Default Re: Is Yamaha Stage Custom an upgrade over Sonor Safari?

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Originally Posted by Frank View Post
I wonder how many people who diss 16" bass drums actually gigged with one with PA support.

I gigged with a 16" Sonor Safari bass drum for several years, and I got nothing but massive complements on the tone. A decently tuned 16" bass drum, a well placed decent BD mic, and a good PA can create Any bass drum tone. Any.
Any info on what heads and mic you used on your Safari BD?
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Old 04-19-2018, 03:56 AM
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Default Re: Is Yamaha Stage Custom an upgrade over Sonor Safari?

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I would recommend staying with the Stage Custom line. The 5-piece with a 20" kick is $650 most places online.
Yeah I missed that because I was only looking up 4 piece kits. Thanks.
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