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  #41  
Old 08-31-2017, 06:15 PM
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Default Re: What's the worst drumming mistake you've heard on a professional recording?

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Originally Posted by Merlin5 View Post
Yep, that's late and no way is it intentional. In fact, in the first few bars his backbeat is also slightly lagging. Yet later in the song he picks it up and it's much more centred and comfortable to listen to. So if he was going for some stylistic way of playing behind the beat, then he was inconsistent in his execution.
Awesome. I feel the exact same way about everything you said, but I didn't want to seem like I was busting the drummer's chops or anything. I feel like it takes a little while for the drummer to sort of find the groove in this song. It eventually happens, but not from the get-go.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this way.
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  #42  
Old 08-31-2017, 06:28 PM
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Default Re: What's the worst drumming mistake you've heard on a professional recording?

I quite like these parts but pretty sure they are mistakes left in on purpose.

Honky Tonk Woman - Drums come in off beat
Start me Up - snare comes in off time, corrected after 1 bar
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  #43  
Old 08-31-2017, 06:35 PM
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Default Re: What's the worst drumming mistake you've heard on a professional recording?

The first small fill in "Eye of the Tiger" is rushed and far from solid to my ears. I think it's between verse 1 and verse 2 (or the first and second half of verse one, depending on how you count it). in fact I always got the impression listening to that song that the drummer didn't show and they just had a non-drummer play a very basic part.
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  #44  
Old 08-31-2017, 06:35 PM
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Default Re: What's the worst drumming mistake you've heard on a professional recording?

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Originally Posted by Living Dead Drummer View Post
One Way or Another by Blondie.
https://youtu.be/4nQ9PlLW4Gc

The Tom part in the bridge about 2:40 into the song.

The part starts with Toms on 1 and 3 and snare on 2 and 4. After the first fill it flips to Snare on 1 and 3 and Toms on 2 and 4.

I don't know if it's actually a mistake, but it always bothered me.
I played that in a cover band for years. I always thought it was my inability to pick it part, count well and play through it 'correctly' as per the record, but now that you've analysed it I think you're dead on, it is some kind of mistake.
I never looked but wonder if Clive plays it that way live?
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  #45  
Old 08-31-2017, 08:02 PM
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Default Re: What's the worst drumming mistake you've heard on a professional recording?

Outshined, Soundgarden,

After they come out of the breakdown in the middle, Cornell sings the verse over the chorus turnaround, the band all recovers together. I always thought that sounded like a happy accident
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  #46  
Old 08-31-2017, 08:24 PM
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Default Re: What's the worst drumming mistake you've heard on a professional recording?

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Originally Posted by opentune View Post
I quite like these parts but pretty sure they are mistakes left in on purpose.

Honky Tonk Woman - Drums come in off beat
Start me Up - snare comes in off time, corrected after 1 bar

Start Me Up is surely the most famous real accident that was left in.

I heard that just yesterday on the radio (after reading this thread) and it is so obvious and weird. But over the last 37 years, it is just the way it is. <shrug>
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  #47  
Old 08-31-2017, 08:55 PM
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Default Re: What's the worst drumming mistake you've heard on a professional recording?

Do guitarist, bassists, and other musicians scrutinize each other's playing like this, or is this just something we as drummers do?
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  #48  
Old 08-31-2017, 09:15 PM
AllTheCoolNamesAreTaken AllTheCoolNamesAreTaken is offline
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Default Re: What's the worst drumming mistake you've heard on a professional recording?

I really like going over the "Beatles Mistakes" page, listening to the songs, and catching mistakes I never heard before. Particularly from Ringo:

http://wgo.signal11.org.uk/wgo.htm

Also, might be fun to post our own worst recorded mistakes. My jazz band did "Four on Six", and I think it's a pretty good recording, but at the end after a break I started playing left-foot hi-hats on one and three. I caught it and fixed it without dropping the beat, but I honestly can't remember if I just screwed up (most likely) or if I thought at the time it would be a cool thing to do. And because I know what I _should_ be playing, it sounds like a mistake to me, but I don't know how it sounds to a non-drummer.
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  #49  
Old 09-01-2017, 01:38 PM
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Default Re: What's the worst drumming mistake you've heard on a professional recording?

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Originally Posted by pgm554 View Post
Steve Gadd Aja ,during one of the drum fills he hits the rim of a tom tom.
But Dennis Chambers repeats the exact rim hit on the live album.. So two negatives make a positive?

Dutch
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  #50  
Old 09-01-2017, 01:46 PM
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Default Re: What's the worst drumming mistake you've heard on a professional recording?

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Originally Posted by Ghostnote View Post
Pretty much every White Stripes song ever recorded...
But you see cover bands trying to play their songs in straight metronomic time...it just doesn't have the swagger and personality of the original recording.

You might not like Meg Whites drumming (I do) but its a major part of the sound of that band. They sound distinctively like themselves which in this era of ProTools editing and Autotune is no mean feat.

Mick
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  #51  
Old 09-01-2017, 03:22 PM
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Default Re: What's the worst drumming mistake you've heard on a professional recording?

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Originally Posted by opentune View Post
I quite like these parts but pretty sure they are mistakes left in on purpose.

Honky Tonk Woman - Drums come in off beat
Start me Up - snare comes in off time, corrected after 1 bar
I was trying to remeber which Stones song had the mistake in the start and couldn't think of it. Start Me Up - it's so obvious as soon as you listen for it, you can't unhear it.
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  #52  
Old 09-01-2017, 05:38 PM
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Default Re: What's the worst drumming mistake you've heard on a professional recording?

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Originally Posted by RacingBeat View Post
Outshined, Soundgarden,

After they come out of the breakdown in the middle, Cornell sings the verse over the chorus turnaround, the band all recovers together. I always thought that sounded like a happy accident
Surely that wasn't recorded all live?! Maybe it was a happy accident in the rehearsal stage, but I would assume they intended it to be that in the end.
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  #53  
Old 09-01-2017, 05:46 PM
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Default Re: What's the worst drumming mistake you've heard on a professional recording?

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Originally Posted by Blisco View Post
Start Me Up is surely the most famous real accident that was left in.
I always thought he did that on purpose.
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  #54  
Old 09-01-2017, 05:53 PM
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Default Re: What's the worst drumming mistake you've heard on a professional recording?

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Originally Posted by mmulcahy1 View Post
Do guitarist, bassists, and other musicians scrutinize each other's playing like this, or is this just something we as drummers do?
Drummers have to do so much more listening than the other musicians do because we are the support for the whole thing, so we hear and listen to everything all of the time. Sure, guitar players dog the bass players and vice versa, but if something doesn't sound "right," then it bugs me (unless it's someone who's just starting out, and he/she gets a total pass).

I hold full-time/famous musicians to a higher standard. Why? Because it's their job to be freakin' good, and he/she should be better than I am. That's just me though.
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  #55  
Old 09-01-2017, 06:03 PM
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Default Re: What's the worst drumming mistake you've heard on a professional recording?

I dunno.

How boring must one be to automatically consider a snare hit on 1 to be a mistake?
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  #56  
Old 09-01-2017, 06:11 PM
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Default Re: What's the worst drumming mistake you've heard on a professional recording?

Speaking of drumming mistakes in the recording studio; I feel like the world has completely changed.

I have been in a recording studio maybe 20 times in my life. All over the Los Angeles area.
All of these recording sessions took place prior to 1975.

My band went into the recording studio last month here in Phoenix and we recorded two songs. The first time I’d been in a studio in 42 years. A few days later after the engineer had mixed and fixed the recording he told me he had to fix my drumming part on one song. I asked what did you fix? He told me there was one Hi Hat hit that was a little bit off tempo. So he corrected it to “make it right”.

I’m thinking, wait a minute, maybe I wanted that Hi Hat hit right where it was! Too late now, it’s gone forever.
I’ll never know where that one hit was. OMG, I live in a different world now.


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  #57  
Old 09-01-2017, 06:29 PM
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Default Re: What's the worst drumming mistake you've heard on a professional recording?

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Originally Posted by mmulcahy1 View Post
Do guitarist, bassists, and other musicians scrutinize each other's playing like this, or is this just something we as drummers do?
Yes and no. Each instrument has its own special blend of autistic poopenanny. Guitar is probably the worst due to the sheer quantity of armchair players and diverse set artists from which we draw our inspiration.

For example: As a guitarist, I'd rather saw off my fretting hand than be forced to play like Vernon Reid.
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  #58  
Old 09-01-2017, 07:07 PM
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Default Re: What's the worst drumming mistake you've heard on a professional recording?

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Originally Posted by Odd-Arne Oseberg View Post
I dunno.

How boring must one be to automatically consider a snare hit on 1 to be a mistake?
Yeah, what's the mistake? To me it just sounds like the song was pretty fresh, and he didn't have his entrance completely figured out, and that's why I like it. It's not like they couldn't have spent a month tracking that song if they didn't like what was going on.
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  #59  
Old 09-01-2017, 07:13 PM
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Default Re: What's the worst drumming mistake you've heard on a professional recording?

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Originally Posted by Hollywood Jim View Post
My band went into the recording studio last month here in Phoenix and we recorded two songs. The first time I’d been in a studio in 42 years. A few days later after the engineer had mixed and fixed the recording he told me he had to fix my drumming part on one song. I asked what did you fix? He told me there was one Hi Hat hit that was a little bit off tempo. So he corrected it to “make it right”.

I’m thinking, wait a minute, maybe I wanted that Hi Hat hit right where it was! Too late now, it’s gone forever.
I’ll never know where that one hit was. OMG, I live in a different world now.
It really is a different world. And this is how a lot of recording sessions are approached now.

I think it's good to be able to play very accurate to the grid; just one more tool in the toolkit, and one that is increasingly required to work in a lot of current musical situations. So in that sense, these expectations for 'perfection' have probably improved the collective skill sets of the drumming community. But that kind of perfection is not a one-size-fits-all answer to everything. Most of my favorite music would never pass that kind of test.
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  #60  
Old 09-01-2017, 07:41 PM
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Default Re: What's the worst drumming mistake you've heard on a professional recording?

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Originally Posted by 8Mile View Post

I think it's good to be able to play very accurate to the grid; just one more tool in the toolkit, and one that is increasingly required to work in a lot of current musical situations. So in that sense, these expectations for 'perfection' have probably improved the collective skill sets of the drumming community. But that kind of perfection is not a one-size-fits-all answer to everything. Most of my favorite music would never pass that kind of test.
Yes, the bar is raised for us as far as time discipline goes.

The great majority of the music I dig wouldn't pass that test either Lar.

The generations of players that have heard quantized music from day 1....IMO have a big advantage in that area over players who for most of their life never had to deal with that. But I think the old school players, the good ones...have something intangible that is undeniable. More human (read imperfect) for sure.

I would love to hear someone quantize a classic Miles recording, just to see how it would sound.
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  #61  
Old 09-01-2017, 08:14 PM
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Default Re: What's the worst drumming mistake you've heard on a professional recording?

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Originally Posted by MustangMick View Post
But you see cover bands trying to play their songs in straight metronomic time...it just doesn't have the swagger and personality of the original recording.

You might not like Meg Whites drumming (I do) but its a major part of the sound of that band. They sound distinctively like themselves which in this era of ProTools editing and Autotune is no mean feat.

Mick
Well ...

First, techs cleaned Meg up in studio, and she's still wobbly. When she's drumming live it's pretty miserable:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGtZphGWV9I

Second, Jack absolutely covers her. Voice, guitar, piano, tambo, whatever. He's right up front with a wall of sound and the drums are basically an afterthought.

Third, can you think of a specific break, fill, pattern, or 'feel' that she came up with that resonates? And don't say 7 Nation Army, because that's bass notes.

Fourth, Meg hasn't hit a drum since the band broke up. Doesn't exactly speak of a love for the instrument.

I'm glad Jack felt comfortable with her behind him, but let's not get carried away with ourselves. :-P
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  #62  
Old 09-01-2017, 09:20 PM
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Default Re: What's the worst drumming mistake you've heard on a professional recording?

I hate even calling it a 'mistake', but after the second chorus of 'Bitch' - right as they head into the guitar solo - Charlie misses the snare and hits the rim.

They'd never allow that today. The fact that the band (well, mostly Mick and Keith, I'm sure) realized it had no bearing on the ultimate grooviness of the track, and decided to leave it alone, is just one of many reasons the Rolling Stones are one of the greatest bands that ever existed.
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  #63  
Old 09-01-2017, 11:48 PM
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Default Re: What's the worst drumming mistake you've heard on a professional recording?

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I played that in a cover band for years. I always thought it was my inability to pick it part, count well and play through it 'correctly' as per the record, but now that you've analysed it I think you're dead on, it is some kind of mistake.
I never looked but wonder if Clive plays it that way live?
I had too look.

Back in 79, he plays it all on the toms:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPaXy3T50Lw

On a more recent performance, he plays it all on the snare and leaves out the toms.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPaXy3T50Lw

So who knows if the studio version is a mistake, a happy accident, or just how he felt it like playing it at the time.
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  #64  
Old 09-02-2017, 12:26 AM
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Default Re: What's the worst drumming mistake you've heard on a professional recording?

That Rhys Clark flub on the Billy Joel show that was discussed here in the past. Awesome drummer, and hate to point out, but whoah. Can totally relate and honestly dont get how pro's dont do it more often, guess thats why they're pro's. Was it on Captain Jack maybe? Its so embarrassing to hear, its painful. I feel like a d&$% right now all the sudden. Did I mention he is an amazing drummer?
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  #65  
Old 09-02-2017, 12:46 AM
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Default Re: What's the worst drumming mistake you've heard on a professional recording?

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I gotta say, does that fact that they left that on the recording make it no longer a mistake? I actually kind of like it. Makes it have personality. I've hear a lot of songs that have outtakes or studio banter before or after a song. That can all be edited out, but these groups chose to keep it, and release it to the public. Although it might have been a mistake at the time, it made it to the final product because they liked it, and thought the audience would too.
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  #66  
Old 09-02-2017, 01:22 AM
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Default Re: What's the worst drumming mistake you've heard on a professional recording?

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But Dennis Chambers repeats the exact rim hit on the live album.. So two negatives make a positive?

Dutch
That wasn't a rim that he hit. He's striking the sticks together in the air above the drums.
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  #67  
Old 09-02-2017, 02:59 AM
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Default Re: What's the worst drumming mistake you've heard on a professional recording?

https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...ed+drum+tracks
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  #68  
Old 09-02-2017, 03:43 AM
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Default Re: What's the worst drumming mistake you've heard on a professional recording?

I always thought "La Grange" by ZZ Top had one of those happy accidents where he hits the snare on the last rim portion.

I think it still sounds cool intentional or not.

Last edited by ghostnoted; 09-02-2017 at 08:13 AM.
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  #69  
Old 09-02-2017, 04:46 AM
AllTheCoolNamesAreTaken AllTheCoolNamesAreTaken is offline
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Default Re: What's the worst drumming mistake you've heard on a professional recording?

How about a mistake I love ... Joe Morello dropping his stick on Conan, and his tense journey to finding another stick:

https://youtu.be/6kc97rN4Af0?t=205
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  #70  
Old 09-02-2017, 06:16 AM
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Default Re: What's the worst drumming mistake you've heard on a professional recording?

Chameleon by Herbie Hancock. Not sure it can be called a mistake as such, though unlikely anything this extreme and presumably not originally intended as an accel in the song would be acceptable today.

Harvey Mason on drums. The tempo starts about 92 bpm and ends up around 111 bpm. Herbie apparently loved the vibe of it and left it as it is.

https://youtu.be/UbkqE4fpvdI
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  #71  
Old 09-02-2017, 06:56 AM
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Default Re: What's the worst drumming mistake you've heard on a professional recording?

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Originally Posted by mmulcahy1 View Post
Do guitarist, bassists, and other musicians scrutinize each other's playing like this, or is this just something we as drummers do?
I'd say guitarist are worse when it comes to scrutinizing playing.
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  #72  
Old 09-02-2017, 07:26 AM
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Default Re: What's the worst drumming mistake you've heard on a professional recording?

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Do you have a link to the Blues Brother recording or video that has that drummer glitch? Every one I've seen on YouTube doesn't have those extra 3 toms but I'd like to hear it if its out there!
Its on my CD of the Blues Brothers soundtrack. Maybe the Youtube clips have been edited.
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  #73  
Old 09-02-2017, 07:30 AM
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Default Re: What's the worst drumming mistake you've heard on a professional recording?

Fleetwood Mac 'Don't Stop' has several cymbal crashes 1 or 3 beats after the downbeat. They add to the character a bit, but there are some weirder ones near the end of the song, 2 1/4 bars into the section.
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  #74  
Old 09-02-2017, 08:37 AM
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Default Re: What's the worst drumming mistake you've heard on a professional recording?

I think the world just need more jazz and fusion.

One year of global metronome/click ban would also be nice.
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  #75  
Old 09-02-2017, 02:46 PM
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Default Re: What's the worst drumming mistake you've heard on a professional recording?

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I think the world just need more jazz and fusion.

One year of global metronome/click ban would also be nice.
Yes, yes, yes, ban that evil thing outside of the practice room!
And we can ban streamline commercial muzak while we're at it too! :)
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  #76  
Old 09-02-2017, 06:28 PM
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Default Re: What's the worst drumming mistake you've heard on a professional recording?

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Fleetwood Mac 'Don't Stop' has several cymbal crashes 1 or 3 beats after the downbeat. They add to the character a bit, but there are some weirder ones near the end of the song, 2 1/4 bars into the section.
I always thought those cymbal crashes were intentional by Mick Fleetwood. He adds a lot of notes in places besides 2 & 4 in many of his songs that add character to the usual placements.
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  #77  
Old 09-03-2017, 04:45 PM
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Default Re: What's the worst drumming mistake you've heard on a professional recording?

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I always thought those cymbal crashes were intentional by Mick Fleetwood. He adds a lot of notes in places besides 2 & 4 in many of his songs that add character to the usual placements.
Absolutely correct. Just finished reading Fleetwood's autobiography; lots of insight as to how they recorded 'Rumours'. That album was recorded over the space of a year, with tons of overdubs and spliced takes.

For example, I never knew that 'Dreams' was just a drum loop, with Fleetwood coming in after the track had been recorded to add drum accents, sometimes multiple versions that were edited down later. Now when I listen to it, it seems so obvious that the fills and crashes were added afterwards.

The point being that there was so much time and effort put into that album, I doubt there is one single element that wasn't 100% intentional.

Probably a lesson in there about what we, the listening audience, perceive as 'mistakes' on professional recordings: there's always the possibility that we're misinterpreting the recording artist's intentions. I usually give the benefit of the doubt - including the OP's initial example, and most of the 'mistakes' cited in this thread.
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  #78  
Old 09-03-2017, 04:53 PM
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Default Re: What's the worst drumming mistake you've heard on a professional recording?

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Originally Posted by philrudd View Post
Absolutely correct. Just finished reading Fleetwood's autobiography; lots of insight as to how they recorded 'Rumours'. That album was recorded over the space of a year, with tons of overdubs and spliced takes.

The point being that there was so much time and effort put into that album, I doubt there is one single element that wasn't 100% intentional.

Good point!







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Old 09-03-2017, 05:00 PM
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Hewitt2 Hewitt2 is offline
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Default Re: What's the worst drumming mistake you've heard on a professional recording?

Exactly. A lot of armchair quarterbacks on this thread.
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Old 09-03-2017, 05:07 PM
mikel mikel is offline
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Default Re: What's the worst drumming mistake you've heard on a professional recording?

Musicians making mistakes, whatever next?
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