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  #1  
Old 07-02-2014, 05:00 PM
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Default Really wanky behaviour....

I enjoy playing drums, and I absolutely love the band thing, and the gig experience.

But, if I live to be 200, I don't think I'll ever understand some of the treatment I, and my band, have been subjected to by venues and event organisers for the privilege of playing an unpaid gig...

We've been booked for about six months to play a decent sized punk/ska/mod event this coming weekend. We found out about six weeks back that our time slot was 8.50pm. This meant that one of the lads in the band was able to commit to a work shift (he's a police constable) which he'd been having trouble with and still be able to make the venue. Furthermore, it meant that a number of people could commit to coming along to see us. My wife, for example, who works throughout the day at weekends.

The gig is local to two of us, so we'd been quite successful in promoting the event. I'd 'recruited' at least twenty people, my pal a similar number. My wife, who works in the shop practically next door to the event had recruited basically her entire staff to come see us with her....it's not a massive venue. This would have been a big payoff for them at 10 per ticket, and lots of drinks purchased.

Yesterday our slot was changed from 8.50pm to 4.30pm. No notification or explanation given to us.

I responded to the organisers explaining the above....and asking them if they could revert us to 8.50pm. Any earlier than 8pm in reality was impossible for us.

They responded to advise that the best they could do was give us 6.30pm.

We've had to decline.

I just can't find the words sometimes to explain how this kind of thing makes me feel.
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Old 07-02-2014, 05:52 PM
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Default Re: Really wanky behaviour....

Did they give a reason for moving your timeslot?
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Old 07-02-2014, 06:03 PM
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Default Re: Really wanky behaviour....

Well, they changed your time slot, you declined to play. Their loss. Yeah, it sucks that you had people lined up to come and see you, but you stuck to your commitment of 8:50 and they didnt. In the end, they are out lots of money because they messed around with the schedule. Good for you to sticking to your committments. Hopefully you will work with more venues who have the same values.
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Old 07-02-2014, 06:11 PM
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Default Re: Really wanky behaviour....

That's the music business.
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  #5  
Old 07-02-2014, 06:20 PM
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Default Re: Really wanky behaviour....

Sounds most of all like an amateuristic organisation to me. 8:50pm, then 4:30pm, then "the best we can do is 6:30pm". If the planning is that flexible, you could have expected everything else to be totally sloppy as well.
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  #6  
Old 07-02-2014, 06:46 PM
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Default Re: Really wanky behaviour....

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Originally Posted by Dre25 View Post
Did they give a reason for moving your timeslot?
None whatsoever.

And as one of the lads pointed out yesterday we don't actually think they were ever going to let us know about the change....it just changed on the Facebook running order.

Pretty shoddy really.
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Old 07-02-2014, 08:32 PM
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Default Re: Really wanky behaviour....

The first clue that they don't care about you is the fact they are not paying you for your time and talent. Work outwards from there and you'll see the problem.

You'll only be treated as badly as you allow yourself to be.
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  #8  
Old 07-02-2014, 09:14 PM
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Default Re: Really wanky behaviour....

So not only are you doing the gig for free, they also want you to jump to there every whim?

Priceless. Looks to me like they have no idea what they are doing and the whole thing will be a shambles. You are well out of it.

If you have the time why not pop along and see just how bad it is and feel smug about not being involved with such incompetence.
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  #9  
Old 07-02-2014, 09:23 PM
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Default Re: Really wanky behaviour....

Good to you for sticking to your guns. Now, in the future stop playing for free.
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  #10  
Old 07-02-2014, 10:54 PM
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Default Re: Really wanky behaviour....

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Originally Posted by No Way Jose View Post
That's the music business.

That's life. Sometimes people don't give a crap.
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  #11  
Old 07-03-2014, 12:25 AM
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Default Re: Really wanky behaviour....

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Originally Posted by BillRayDrums View Post
The first clue that they don't care about you is the fact they are not paying you for your time and talent. Work outwards from there and you'll see the problem.

You'll only be treated as badly as you allow yourself to be.
Bingo! I believe if we all refused to play for free just to benefit bar owners musicians in general would benefit.
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  #12  
Old 07-03-2014, 12:39 AM
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Default Re: Really wanky behaviour....

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Originally Posted by SquadLeader View Post
for the privilege of playing an unpaid gig...
Unfortunately Squaddie, you've already placed a value on yourselves.........zero. It doesn't surprise me in the least that that's exactly the value that the venue has decided to place on you in turn. And if they think you're worth zero, you'd better believe they'll treat you like a zero.

Doesn't make it right....and yes, it does suck. But similarly, how do you expect anyone else to think you're worth something if you don't portray that from the get go?

I've said it before and I'll say it again.....except for the most select of circumstances (say festivals with thousands of punters where major acts are headlining)......unpaid gigs just don't serve a band well at all. Avoid at all costs.
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  #13  
Old 07-03-2014, 01:02 AM
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Default Re: Really wanky behaviour....

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Originally Posted by Pocket-full-of-gold View Post
Unfortunately Squaddie, you've already placed a value on yourselves.........zero. It doesn't surprise me in the least that that's exactly the value that the venue has decided to place on you in turn. And if they think you're worth zero, you'd better believe they'll treat you like a zero.

Doesn't make it right....and yes, it does suck. But similarly, how do you expect anyone else to think you're worth something if you don't portray that from the get go?

I've said it before and I'll say it again.....except for the most select of circumstances (say festivals with thousands of punters where major acts are headlining)......unpaid gigs just don't serve a band well at all. Avoid at all costs.
Most bands in the UK would never gig...seriously. It's beyond belief these days. I bet 95% of UK gigs for unsigned bands are unpaid. We've actually signed ourself to our own independent label and only now, after a couple of years, began to secure paid gigs.

That apart, this is a charity festival. We were happy to play it for free. We now wish we hadn't have bothered.
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Old 07-03-2014, 01:17 AM
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Default Re: Really wanky behaviour....

I know that this forum covers levels of talent from serious professionals, through aspirant pro's to...well, the likes of me.

A band such as mine would feel fraudulent charging people for the "privilege" of hearing us. People are more likely to pay us to not play. We're hatching pans to find a relatively tame environment to play out.

The point is, and I am not casting nasturtiums on the OP's playing or band, not all bands are doing themselves or other musicians a disservice by playing for free. I do agree though, that if money is being made from the band's performance, then the band should get a slice of that pie.
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  #15  
Old 07-03-2014, 01:34 AM
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Default Re: Really wanky behaviour....

Set up across the street and start playing at 8:30 PM.
Maybe even on a flat bed truck.

Put on a free outdoor concert. See how many people you can draw away from their event.


( Make sure you have a tip jar out in front of the band. )


.
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  #16  
Old 07-03-2014, 03:24 AM
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Default Re: Really wanky behaviour....

Quote:
Set up across the street and start playing at 8:30 PM.
Maybe even on a flat bed truck.

Put on a free outdoor concert. See how many people you can draw away from their event.
Bloody brilliant idea, you'd get more publicity than the 'real' show across the road
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  #17  
Old 07-03-2014, 04:28 AM
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Default Re: Really wanky behaviour....

I know those feels, OP. Venues tried to do us like that a lot when we first started playing shows. After about a year of playing, and getting a nice local following, we started seeing some pay outs. Even when some shows were supposed to be non paying gigs, we would still get a little bit anyways.
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  #18  
Old 07-03-2014, 04:53 AM
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Default Re: Really wanky behaviour....

Doesn't seem that odd to me. Whoever is running the show either got a message from a band who they liked more that they wanted your time slot, or they booked another band that wanted your time slot. They figured they could move you and it would be fine. With gigs like that you need to tell them up front what your flexibility is, if you have any at all.

I'm not going to bash you for playing for free. I've been to tons of shows where door sales were barely enough to cover the venue rental, or the venue was trying to barely make their own rent. If you don't play for free, you don't get heard. If you're good, then people will start asking you to play payed gigs. Selling merch is often the only way you can get some income, and a tip jar.
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  #19  
Old 07-03-2014, 08:28 AM
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Default Re: Really wanky behaviour....

Quote:
Originally Posted by SquadLeader View Post
this is a charity festival. We were happy to play it for free. We now wish we hadn't have bothered.
Ah. Fair enough then. I'd be lyin' if I said I'd never been in a band that lent its services free of charge to a charitable cause. A good example of "select circumstances" I guess.

I dunno mate. There's not much more to be done other than chalk it up to a bad experience. Hopefully the next time you offer your services for a cause, you won't be stuffed around as a reward for your efforts.
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  #20  
Old 07-03-2014, 10:55 AM
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Default Re: Really wanky behaviour....

Quote:
Originally Posted by SquadLeader View Post
we'd been quite successful in promoting the event. I'd 'recruited' at least twenty people, my pal a similar number. My wife [. . .] had recruited basically her entire staff to come see us with her....it's not a massive venue. This would have been a big payoff for them at 10 per ticket, and lots of drinks purchased.
This part rang the biggest alarm bells for me: "charity" or not, one can always sniff out the shysters - not just by the fact that they get you to work for nothing, but by how much work they get you to do for nothing.

If an event planner wants a band to play for nothing for charity, then fair enough (if the band is okay with that) - but it's the promoter's responsibility to promote the event and get the punters in etc. It's bad enough when shitty pub venues pull that we'll-only-let-you-play-if-you-bring-40-mates-along thing, but somehow throwing words like "festival" and "charity" around makes these kind of dickwits think they can get away with the same amateur-hour behaviour.

I mean, there's Charity and there's charity: playing Live Aid at Wembley is one thing. Playing a pub car park with a pop-up gazebo from Argos over the stage area while somebody rattles a tin for cancer research is something else.
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  #21  
Old 07-03-2014, 12:53 PM
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Default Re: Really wanky behaviour....

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikel View Post
So not only are you doing the gig for free, they also want you to jump to there every whim?

Priceless. Looks to me like they have no idea what they are doing and the whole thing will be a shambles. You are well out of it.

If you have the time why not pop along and see just how bad it is and feel smug about not being involved with such incompetence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SquadLeader View Post
Most bands in the UK would never gig...seriously. It's beyond belief these days. I bet 95% of UK gigs for unsigned bands are unpaid. We've actually signed ourself to our own independent label and only now, after a couple of years, began to secure paid gigs.

That apart, this is a charity festival. We were happy to play it for free. We now wish we hadn't have bothered.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad Tempered Clavier View Post
This part rang the biggest alarm bells for me: "charity" or not, one can always sniff out the shysters - not just by the fact that they get you to work for nothing, but by how much work they get you to do for nothing.

If an event planner wants a band to play for nothing for charity, then fair enough (if the band is okay with that) - but it's the promoter's responsibility to promote the event and get the punters in etc. It's bad enough when shitty pub venues pull that we'll-only-let-you-play-if-you-bring-40-mates-along thing, but somehow throwing words like "festival" and "charity" around makes these kind of dickwits think they can get away with the same amateur-hour behaviour.

I mean, there's Charity and there's charity: playing Live Aid at Wembley is one thing. Playing a pub car park with a pop-up gazebo from Argos over the stage area while somebody rattles a tin for cancer research is something else.
Thing is this is exactly how the UK gig circuit works. There are barely any venues that pay and promote the gigs themselves without all these kind of shenanigans and hoops for the band to jump through.

Until you get to playing certain size venues (around the 400+ capacity mark) then you simply have no choice but to put up with this kind of thing.
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  #22  
Old 07-03-2014, 02:17 PM
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Default Re: Really wanky behaviour....

Thanks for everyone's input on this guys. Sort of endorsed most of my thoughts.

Things are sort of deteriorating now, as the venue has offered us an alternative slot on this coming Friday. I guess they feel that, because we can't do 4.30pm on Saturday that we ought to be able to do 8.30pm on Friday (ie. tomorrow).

I'm a stubborn old git and am a bit too old to be dicked around so I've told the guys I'm watching football (and that hell would freeze over before those tossers got my services now for this gig), and the band are getting tetchy with me about it (they have always been considerably more 'desperate' or 'keen' to play free gigs than I have, and always more relaxed than me about being cocked around with).

So, having discussed the situation last night with my wife, I'm going into a period of evaluation on whether this music game is worth the hassle. I have a pretty demanding job, and fight hard to put 100% in when playing music regardless of these hassles.

As things stand I intend to give my band notice that I'll play out this years gigs but then that's it. But my wife has persuaded me to wait a week or two (ie. until after we play another gig in a couple of weeks) before making a hasty call. She's balanced....I'm not !!

I've gone from loving music to despising it in the space of weeks. It's really quite a pity.
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Old 07-03-2014, 02:40 PM
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Default Re: Really wanky behaviour....

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Originally Posted by SquadLeader View Post
they have always been considerably more 'desperate' or 'keen' to play free gigs than I have [. . .] I've gone from loving music to despising it in the space of weeks
More alarm bells right there, mate. Got myself into that situation a while back and became so sick of shitty gigs and the morons who put them on I didn't touch my kit for over a year. Didn't even practice. It's an insidious and corrosive state of affairs and I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

Driving all night and kipping in the back of the van to do a gig for no tangible reward on the off-chance you might score and have an adventure with your mates is fine when you're 17, but if one is at a point in life when that shit just ain't fun anymore then it gets boring very quickly.

I wish you the the very best of luck, but I doubt you and the rest of your band are going to see eye-to-eye on this one: though don't look upon it as any kind of failing or waste of time. There's nowt wrong with wanting your band to be fun and relaxed and comfortable. You may not ever headline Reading with that approach but, with the best will in the world, you don't sound like you're particularly bothered about that sort of thing.

Good luck and have fun.
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Old 07-03-2014, 05:09 PM
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Default Re: Really wanky behaviour....

Quote:
Originally Posted by SquadLeader View Post
Most bands in the UK would never gig...seriously. It's beyond belief these days. I bet 95% of UK gigs for unsigned bands are unpaid. We've actually signed ourself to our own independent label and only now, after a couple of years, began to secure paid gigs.

That apart, this is a charity festival. We were happy to play it for free. We now wish we hadn't have bothered.
In nearly 30 years of playing with cover bands and original unsigned bands, I have never once played a gig for free, just won't do it.

It's always worth asking for charity events whether the PA company is being paid (I bet they are) or whether the venue is being paid (I bet it is) or whether any food concessions/burger vans/bars are keeping their profits (I bet they will be). A reduced rate, maybe, for free, never.

It does seem to be an expectation that musicians give their services for free where the other components don't. I've never done it.
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Old 07-03-2014, 06:53 PM
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Default Re: Really wanky behaviour....

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Originally Posted by Bad Tempered Clavier View Post
More alarm bells right there, mate. Got myself into that situation a while back and became so sick of shitty gigs and the morons who put them on I didn't touch my kit for over a year. Didn't even practice. It's an insidious and corrosive state of affairs and I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

Driving all night and kipping in the back of the van to do a gig for no tangible reward on the off-chance you might score and have an adventure with your mates is fine when you're 17, but if one is at a point in life when that shit just ain't fun anymore then it gets boring very quickly.

I wish you the the very best of luck, but I doubt you and the rest of your band are going to see eye-to-eye on this one: though don't look upon it as any kind of failing or waste of time. There's nowt wrong with wanting your band to be fun and relaxed and comfortable. You may not ever headline Reading with that approach but, with the best will in the world, you don't sound like you're particularly bothered about that sort of thing.

Good luck and have fun.
Difficult one. They see playing a free gig no different in terms of promoting our band, and our album, than handing out free CD's at gigs.

I can understand their point of view, and I agree with them in part.

For that reason I don't mind playing free gigs. Really I don't. Course I'd rather be paid and often feel we deserve to be paid. But I can see a bigger picture just like the other guys. The best pay days we've had are gigs we ourselves have promoted. Funny what can happen when one gets off their arse and promotes a gig huh.

The bit I absolutely despise is people abusing that position. And we've had quite an amount of that over the years. And when one points out, mano-mano to people "you're a cheeky bastard and this is why you're a cheeky bastard" they just smile, shrug it off, and await the next victim.
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Old 07-03-2014, 06:54 PM
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Default Re: Really wanky behaviour....

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Originally Posted by mpthomson View Post
In nearly 30 years of playing with cover bands and original unsigned bands, I have never once played a gig for free, just won't do it.

It's always worth asking for charity events whether the PA company is being paid (I bet they are) or whether the venue is being paid (I bet it is) or whether any food concessions/burger vans/bars are keeping their profits (I bet they will be). A reduced rate, maybe, for free, never.

It does seem to be an expectation that musicians give their services for free where the other components don't. I've never done it.
It can get worse than that mate...

WE organised a charity gig last year and the venue (who made an absolute fortune in bar sales...just from me) held out on some of the gate money they'd agreed to pay.

Scumbags

Having said that, the charity concerned didn't give us a thank you, kiss my arse, or nuthing and didn't follow through on the offer of publicity for the bands made when we originally set up the thing....so mebbe it's endemic in people generally rather than just restricted to music venues, promoters and the like.....sigh
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Old 07-03-2014, 07:05 PM
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Default Re: Really wanky behaviour....

I work for a charity. My CEO plays in a folk band that won't take less than 150 per-head payment.

Charity gigs are all well and good but if you're good, you should be paid.
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Old 07-03-2014, 10:30 PM
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Default Re: Really wanky behaviour....

I have two bands, one of which is a cover and one an all-original rock band. I don't have to rely on either for income (I work a full-time job), but all of the band members and I value our time. The cover band has minimums that we will play for, and we are able to book as many shows in a year as we want for the most part. Pretty nice.

It's the original band that is an issue. We are getting jerked around in similar fashion as you. Gigs for original music are tough to find, and are often low or no pay. We can sell CD's and get something, but not much at the end of the night. Where to draw the line is the question. If we say "No freebie gigs", that cuts the offerings down 80%. If we say they have to be paying gigs, then what's the amount? Often it will be $50 or $100 TOTAL for the 3 of us. Do you eliminate the $50 gigs because they are beneath you and not worth your time? If so, may as well give up the original band. At least that's the deal in my city.

Again, not complaining. the original band members all understand the game here. You play covers for money, and your own music for fun. That being said, sadly you can see the expiration date on that band written on the wall. I try to balance the love of doing exactly what I want against the low/no pay and realize as I get older my time is more valuable. We just take a handful of shows a year and that's that. I don't see it getting any better anytime soon, and we're not willing to jump everytime someone offers us the opportunity to "play for exposure".
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  #29  
Old 07-04-2014, 09:22 AM
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Default Re: Really wanky behaviour....

This may be really dense of me...... but if you are doing originals and you have copyrighted those originals do.... you not get a cut by playing those songs ( make sure you are on the credits list)

If it doesnt work that way get your covers band to play your originals.

Indeed all the cover bands could include originals from other DW members and at least you dont get done for complete free.

One way to get paid is come up with something "catchy" that and advert copiest or film want to use snippets of.

I was just reading that Wally Backer AKA Gotye had written, played / sampled and then created his "song" "MY Hearts a Mess" which got airplay via JJJ and made music TV because of its being a completely home made job....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpN1j8R5lZ8

MUCH MUCH later he did have an "international read USA, breakthrough "just someone I used to know" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UVNT4wvIGY

But he got very litlle google traffic after "used to know" for his prior work until "hearts a mess" appeared in the film "Great Gatsby" (recent version).

Now people are "discovering it" and wanting to know when his "album" will be out...not withstanding that song had been round for years !!

Perhaps more focus on the passive income is better to concentrate on than the immediate pay on the day.
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Old 07-04-2014, 11:25 AM
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Default Re: Really wanky behaviour....

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This may be really dense of me...... but if you are doing originals and you have copyrighted those originals do.... you not get a cut by playing those songs ( make sure you are on the credits list)

If it doesnt work that way get your covers band to play your originals.

Indeed all the cover bands could include originals from other DW members and at least you dont get done for complete free.

One way to get paid is come up with something "catchy" that and advert copiest or film want to use snippets of.

I was just reading that Wally Backer AKA Gotye had written, played / sampled and then created his "song" "MY Hearts a Mess" which got airplay via JJJ and made music TV because of its being a completely home made job....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpN1j8R5lZ8

MUCH MUCH later he did have an "international read USA, breakthrough "just someone I used to know" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UVNT4wvIGY

But he got very litlle google traffic after "used to know" for his prior work until "hearts a mess" appeared in the film "Great Gatsby" (recent version).

Now people are "discovering it" and wanting to know when his "album" will be out...not withstanding that song had been round for years !!

Perhaps more focus on the passive income is better to concentrate on than the immediate pay on the day.
Similar thing going on over here with an advert for Clash of Clans. It's quite comical. Kids now saying to their parents, or asking on Facebook, "hey who is this song by and where can I get the album"....

The song's Happy Go Lucky me by George Formby (a ukulele/banjolele player who entertained the WW2 troops.....and came from just up the road from me !! :-) )

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZaGLpH79YyY
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Old 07-04-2014, 11:34 AM
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This may be really dense of me...... but if you are doing originals and you have copyrighted those originals do.... you not get a cut by playing those songs ( make sure you are on the credits list)

If it doesnt work that way get your covers band to play your originals.

Indeed all the cover bands could include originals from other DW members and at least you dont get done for complete free.

One way to get paid is come up with something "catchy" that and advert copiest or film want to use snippets of.

I was just reading that Wally Backer AKA Gotye had written, played / sampled and then created his "song" "MY Hearts a Mess" which got airplay via JJJ and made music TV because of its being a completely home made job....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpN1j8R5lZ8

MUCH MUCH later he did have an "international read USA, breakthrough "just someone I used to know" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UVNT4wvIGY

But he got very litlle google traffic after "used to know" for his prior work until "hearts a mess" appeared in the film "Great Gatsby" (recent version).

Now people are "discovering it" and wanting to know when his "album" will be out...not withstanding that song had been round for years !!

Perhaps more focus on the passive income is better to concentrate on than the immediate pay on the day.
Unfortunately in my experience, here in the UK hardly any venues properly operate the PRS/MCPS service.

As I understand it every gig you play you should be filling out a form to state which of your original songs you played and then the venue submits that and along with their regular payment to be a licensed live music venue. Then you get paid by the PRS/MCPS further down the line.
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Old 07-04-2014, 12:17 PM
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Unfortunately in my experience, here in the UK hardly any venues properly operate the PRS/MCPS service.

As I understand it every gig you play you should be filling out a form to state which of your original songs you played and then the venue submits that and along with their regular payment to be a licensed live music venue. Then you get paid by the PRS/MCPS further down the line.
I readily accept that I can't back this statement up, but I'd say 99% of venues, and musicians, at anything like the level we are playing out at, are not aware/don't operate this.

We do know what the rules are but ONLY because we've gone through a process to set up an independent label as part of our production and release of a proper musical album

We were all blown away by some of the stuff we learnt as a result of this experience.
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Old 07-04-2014, 01:26 PM
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In nearly 30 years of playing with cover bands and original unsigned bands, I have never once played a gig for free, just won't do it.

It's always worth asking for charity events whether the PA company is being paid (I bet they are) or whether the venue is being paid (I bet it is) or whether any food concessions/burger vans/bars are keeping their profits (I bet they will be). A reduced rate, maybe, for free, never.

It does seem to be an expectation that musicians give their services for free where the other components don't. I've never done it.
THIS. Utterly, totally, and completely THIS.

I will do charity gigs. Provided I get paid.

The charity is making money on the punters paying gate. Failing to pay the musicians - while paying everyone else - is just being a dick.

I grok that the scene is different in the UK. Perhaps it's time for some collective bargaining. Surely there's a network of musicians. You know these guys, who know those folks, who know more. Set up a Facebook group or something. Organize. Present the venues with a solid front. "No pay, no play." It'll suck for everyone for a short time. But once the venues start figuring out that they can't stiff the attractions which make them money, things might change.

Pipe dream, I know, but it's a way to get the job done.
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Old 07-04-2014, 01:36 PM
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THIS. Utterly, totally, and completely THIS.

I will do charity gigs. Provided I get paid.

The charity is making money on the punters paying gate. Failing to pay the musicians - while paying everyone else - is just being a dick.

I grok that the scene is different in the UK. Perhaps it's time for some collective bargaining. Surely there's a network of musicians. You know these guys, who know those folks, who know more. Set up a Facebook group or something. Organize. Present the venues with a solid front. "No pay, no play." It'll suck for everyone for a short time. But once the venues start figuring out that they can't stiff the attractions which make them money, things might change.

Pipe dream, I know, but it's a way to get the job done.
It's largely all been tried.

There are so many bands....and so many will nip in and play for free.

So the principled bands can sit at home watching TV thinking "that taught em"....meanwhile there is a band night going on at the venue taught a lesson.

I think the problem (if it is a problem) is that it's gone beyond the tipping point.

There are some very good venues, owned by some very high profile musical people in fact, and also some high profile bands, who treat up and coming originals bands quite shamefully.

It's past the point where I think there's a solution.

But...the public gets what the public wants and there's very few originals bands coming through. In 30 years there won't be a plethora of people looking back and saying "whoa....the Kinks, The Who, The Beatles, The Hollies, etc. etc....now THOSE were the days".

Quite depressing if you let it depress ya.
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Old 07-04-2014, 02:11 PM
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The charity is making money on the punters paying gate.
But isn't that the point though Bob? Of course a charity has to generate income. How can they disperse funds to the chosen cause if they can't obtain them in the first place? Little chance of being charitable if all the money raised has to go towards paying those that are supposedly assisting in raising it by forgoing their normal fee.

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Old 07-04-2014, 03:08 PM
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But isn't that the point? Of course a charity has to generate income. How can they disperse funds to the chosen cause if they can't obtain them in the first place? Little chance of being charitable if all the money raised has to go towards paying those that are supposedly assisting in raising it by forgoing their normal fee.
Thats very true "Pog" which is why I always ask charity "sprukers" whether they are volunteers for the charity or if they are a "charity fund raising organisation" they hate that question and with good cause...they get a HUGE cut of donations....some up to 90c in the dollar !!

Nest time a charateer wants to "sell" you anything from pen, to a sponsorship package ask if they will just take a donation.....they will often say no "they cant for ...reason...account keeping is the one that makes me laugh. If they do take donations see if they are paid or volunteers.

I WILL NOT give my money to a paid fund raiser.

Perhaps the same goes for playing for charities......if they are a volunteer charity then you may wish to donate your services.

If they are fund raisers ask how much they have set aside to pay you...you should at least get a call centre workers pay per hour for each band member plus roadie. Perhaps a percentage of the gate.... any which way get paid.

If you wanted to really piss them off if they say no, run a free gig the same night with all proceeds to the same charity...and make it clear "all proceeds" are going to the charity unlike the one down the road !!
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Old 07-04-2014, 03:16 PM
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Thats very true "Pog" which is why I always ask charity "sprukers" whether they are volunteers for the charity or if they are a "charity fund raising organisation" they hate that question and with good cause...they get a HUGE cut of donations....some up to 90c in the dollar !!

Nest time a charateer wants to "sell" you anything from pen, to a sponsorship package ask if they will just take a donation.....they will often say no "they cant for ...reason...account keeping is the one that makes me laugh. If they do take donations see if they are paid or volunteers.

I WILL NOT give my money to a paid fund raiser.

Perhaps the same goes for playing for charities......if they are a volunteer charity then you may wish to donate your services.

If they are fund raisers ask how much they have set aside to pay you...you should at least get a call centre workers pay per hour for each band member plus roadie. Perhaps a percentage of the gate.... any which way get paid.

If you wanted to really piss them off if they say no, run a free gig the same night with all proceeds to the same charity...and make it clear "all proceeds" are going to the charity unlike the one down the road !!
Just in the sake of clarity.....it may well be that all proceeds from the event in question here is going to charity.

Just saying.

My issue is their wanky behaviour with me and my band. There is no suggestion to me that they are FINANCIALLY pulling fast ones.
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Old 07-04-2014, 03:22 PM
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Just in the sake of clarity.....it may well be that all proceeds from the event in question here is going to charity.

Just saying.

My issue is their wanky behaviour with me and my band. There is no suggestion to me that they are FINANCIALLY pulling fast ones.
Err ask and find out...... you would be surprised how many charity events are run by paid fund raisers.

The actual charity usually has no time / insufficient talent to run an event. Thats why they pay...but they get fleeced for what they get.

Charity companies are "trained" to give the impression they are genuine and sweetness and light...they aint.... DONT TAKE THEIR WORD AT FACE VALUE
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Old 07-04-2014, 03:31 PM
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Err ask and find out...... you would be surprised how many charity events are run by paid fund raisers.

The actual charity usually has no time / insufficient talent to run an event. Thats why they pay...but they get fleeced for what they get.

Charity companies are "trained" to give the impression they are genuine and sweetness and light...they aint.... DONT TAKE THEIR WORD AT FACE VALUE
To be honest, I'm not really interested anymore in them, or the event.

Just pointing out that I'm not accusing them of anything beyond acting like asshats.

Lest a Solicitors letter arrive through my post box if you get my drift :-)
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Old 07-04-2014, 03:47 PM
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To be honest, I'm not really interested anymore in them, or the event.

Just pointing out that I'm not accusing them of anything beyond acting like asshats.

Lest a Solicitors letter arrive through my post box if you get my drift :-)
There's a reason to play charity events for free.... The tax write-off.

At least you didn't fall for the "Battle of the Bands" scam.
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